the N810 gps
 

Hi my n810 is on the way shipping to me and i would like to know is its GPS free??? or do you have to pay monthly fee for it??? from the research i found that the N810's gps is very slow, at this point, are there any solutions to improve it reception ability?? thanks much!

im considering to return it if the gps isn't free to use and get a nokia e71 or N82 instead, they almost has everything thing that N810 had, only draw back is the small screen that is inconvenience for web browsing.....should i change it to e71/ N82 instead of keeping the N810?

p.s. i do know that N810 is not a cell phone :)

Re: the N810 gps
 

GPS time to first fix is slow, very slow, but once it's fixed, the signal is strong.
Time to first fix has much improved (at least for me) with A-GPS introduced in Diablo. A-GPS allows the GPS to know which sattelites should be in sight, which reduces a lot the time of search.
With A-GPS enabled it's fairly descent, as far as I know about GPSs.

About the monthly fee now.
You've got 2 options:
1) The included Wayfinder app (aka Map), which has a monthly fee (the price is ok IMO). It's a closed source app with propriatary maps included. That's why you have to pay.
It does a very good job at navigating and I recommend it very much. Simple to use and fast.
2) Maemo Mapper. It's an open source map viewer. It's free. Unlike Wayfinder, it doesn't include maps. Maps have to be downloaded (from google maps or openstreetmap for example) on the go. To use it as a real navigation system, you have to be connected (through your phone) to the internet so it can download maps and routes.
It is an awesome piece of software, which does good navigation and has a lot of options.

If you have a good data plan on your phone, use mapper. If you don't want to rely on an internet connection, use Wayfinder.

My 2cts.

Re: the N810 gps
 

The GPS itself is free. It may take some time to acquire an initial lock, but once it has a lock, it's stable.
For the latest firmware you can download and install the A-GPS software which helps speeding up the initial lock time.

If you need navigation and voice guiding you can pay a fee to unlock the Wayfinder navigation features of the maps software.

Re: the N810 gps
 

isn't there any way to get the maemo mapper to work w/o the internet? ex: can i download the map from a start point to the destination before travel and use it on the road ????

Re: the N810 gps
 

Yes you can, and this is in fact the way I mostly use MaemoMapper. You can even download route while at home, and it will guide you through the path without having Internet connection. The catch is that if you do get lost from your route it can not recalculate you new route.

Re: the N810 gps
 

can u download the map of whole USA and store it on a 6GB mini sd card?? in this way it will have to full functionality of Wayfinder ...:D

Re: the N810 gps
 

You comparing to Wayfinder without paid license? Yes, it would be very similar in functionality.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Is there a way to display altitude in GPS? I know the GPS system is designed to,provide ,4-D info but see no option to display.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Is there anyway to use Wayfinders or the maps downloaded from the Maps software with Maemo Mapper? Oh and what about Road map? It isn't as good? The maps are small and the whole US maps are about 2-4GB. Is the software still being worked on? Does anyone know how to make a route with it or is it not possible yet?

Re: the N810 gps
 

Running "maps" the applet bar will display Gps icon that changes when appearance when the GPS locks. Click it and select location. All the numeric stats are shown including altitude and speed.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Is there a way to download the maemo mapper tiles (openstreet) to a PC first and then transfer to my N810? It would make it much quicker for me, as trying to d/l almost 1gb of maps through the N810 is taking forever.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Yes you can. Then transfer the file via USB cable or perhaps bluetooth like I do. If the file is installable, open it in file manager, click it and the installer will take over.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Maemo Mapper shows altitude in the GPS Details display. I downloaded the Google maps and use my N810 without Internet connection. I also installed a-GPS which requires a network connection only when you change your location more than about 180 miles. There are a number of map databases offered and some are much smaller than Google's.

Re: the N810 gps
 

As someone said before, yes, you can download the maps in advance. However even with the map data Maemo Mapper needs Internet connection to receive route instructions. This means that if you have downlaoded map data and route info and your route is blocked for whatever route, you cannot simply take anoter route and ask MM for new route. Similary, if you miss your exit on a highway, MM won't find a new route automatically. With MM you'll always need Internet connectivity to find a route. Finally, MM reads route instructions from downloaded XML-file using speech synthesis. Usually this means that route information is usually like "turn left to Foobar street and go 47 km" instead of "take second lane after 200 metres and turn left".

Personally I like MaemoMapper, but it's horrible memory hog. I've practically given up trying to use MM and Browser at the same time. I only need to scroll the map a bit and MM has consumed most of free RAM and likely some of swap as well. On the other hand using Maps draws more power.

If I needed GPS routing, I'd choose Maps over MaemoMapper. Personally I use both.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Is it possible to download finer detail instructions? I've been looking at data and it's not too costly nowadays (~£5/month unlimited); being able to use maemo-mapper as a decent routing tool would be useful, but as said above, it would need to be able to actively ask for route updates, and would also be nice to have higher detail routes.

Any thoughts?

Re: the N810 gps
 

As far as I can tell MaemoMapper simply reads out directions of a route point when you get close to it. If you can get istructions with finer detail I'm sure MM will happily use festalon or such to read out the instructions for you. :-)

The routes I've tried come in XML and as such are easily editable. If you want to experiment with MM and routes that's an easy way to start. In my opinnion however it would be better to forget speech synthesis and find a way to receive coded directions. What I mean is that it would be better to receive driving instructions in machine readable format instead of plain English. That way it would be much easier to use pre-recorded voice samples (e.g. borrow the samples from Maps). As you probably know, consumer-grade speech synthesis isn't very good.

Re: the N810 gps
 

About GPS altitude - you should be aware that altitude isn't accurate at all. The globe model in these consumer grade GPS receivers isn't good enough for that. As a minimum you will have to add a correction factor for your current area.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Or use a lookup from your lat/long using the shuttle radar mapping data to work out how high you should be perhaps ;)

Re: the N810 gps
 

While experimenting with Maemo Mapper I noticed that the altitude reading varies in a 3 or 4 meter range which may be close enough for some uses. I've also seen slight movement indicated when standing still. This being my 1st GPS I don't know if this is common amongst other devices. Without documentation or prior experience with GPS devices this application can be confusing.

Re: the N810 gps
 

The GPS receiver uses a globe model? I am surprised by that as my N810 seems to get my attitude correct when I'm on an airplane when comparing to the inflight gps video.

Does GPS suffer from signal reflection? I notice that whenever I drive under a bridge my position is usually systematically offset.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Ok, I don't know if the maps are wrong, or the GPS is wrong, but it ALWAYS puts me off the road in a lot of places. I'm driving, and all of a sudden I am 20 meters off a road. And my house, which is on the corner of two streets, is shown way off when I'm standing by it. According to the GPS (or the maps, not too sure), I'm standing in the creek behind my house.

Program: RoadMaps
Maps: OpenStreet (better) and the U.S. Government ones (Shitty).

Re: the N810 gps
 

I've found Google Street very good and haven't had the problem you described.

Re: the N810 gps
 

GPS tends to suffer from reflections, etc., which cause apparent displacements. Mapping apps which assume you're on a road can generally account for thes little hiccups.

Regarding altitude, once you have enough satellites altitude should be reasonably accurate (though not as accurate as the horizontal positioning due to the satellite orbits and the geometry of it all). Though note that the altitude is probably given with respect to a nominal geodetic/ellipsoidal shape rather than the actual sea level.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Which programs, aside from Map, assume you are on the road. Does MaemoMapper do so? RoadMap does not do this, because often times it says I'm driving through buildings and rivers. Its really confusing when you are driving in new place, and all of a sudden the computerized Flite voice says "Approaching Random Street," when you are way far away from it...

Re: the N810 gps
 

Maps - like some consumer GPSes for navigation - assumes you're on a road whilst navigating. When in "normal" mode, it doesn't assume you're on a road AFAICT.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Maemo mapper doesn't assume you're on a road, mainly because it doesn't know where the roads are, it just displays your location on the bitmap it's downloaded.

Re: the N810 gps
 

IIRC NavIt also places you on the nearest road (when using Garmin maps).

Re: the N810 gps
 

Being a GPS noobie I've been having trouble figuring how to create a route with Maemo Mapper -- still no luck. I have however found a web page that creates XML GPX files which Maemo Mapper can open as routes. http://www.gnuite.com/cgi-bin/gpx.cgi

Re: the N810 gps
 

In mm on the menu choose Route > Download (iirc), then stick in the locations and it uses the site you've given the url for to parse the Google maps direction output.

Re: the N810 gps
 

They have to, although that model could be just a simple (and wrong) perfect sphere. It can't give you an altitude above sea level if it doesn't know where the sea level is - it would only know the distance from the center of the Earth.
The Earth looks a bit more pear-shaped than a sphere (wider at the equator and fatter at the south). So, unless you want a wildly incorrect altitude reading you need a model. But a model isn't perfect unless it's big and complicated.

The error is systematic and varies depending on where you are. In my area it seems to be about 38-43 meters (with my GPS. It could be diifferent with other receivers). Walk down to the sea (if possible..) and check out what your GPS says.

(In addition to the systematic error the GPS isn't as good at calculating altitude as longitude/latitude so there's an additional inaccuracy there, but I'm not sure how big it is.)

It depends on where you are. Last time I checked was somewhere above Italy and my GPS was about 100 meters different from the in-flight video.

Re: the N810 gps
 

TomTom always puts you on the nearest road, even if it's quite far away.. it was a bit funny watching my "car" following the normal road while in actuality I was taking a turn along a bypass some 50-60 meters (think yards, for you imperial guys..) away.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Iirc about 1.5x the DOP of the horizontal position, so not far off, but still a bit worse.

Two things here, firstly the error in the geodetic is small compared to your flight altitude, so it will seem to be about right and secondly, it depends where the in-flight data actually comes from - if it's a GPS it will probably have the same offset error :)

Re: the N810 gps
 

Thanks lardman. Bit by bit my understanding grows. After using Maemo Mapper a bit more I may write what appears to be a needed HowTo -- Getting Started.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Please do, it's sometimes hard to know what new members will ask/want to know. I'm sure we'll be happy to step in and add any technical details, etc. if you don't know them by now ;) :)

Re: the N810 gps
 

Maemo Mapper has excellent built-in help that you may want to see.

Re: the N810 gps
 

I was pleasantly surprised at how good the help files are. They are organized as a reference by function -- most common documentation approach. What I plan is task oriented which will make the application more approachable to those unfamiliar with GPS devices and technology. Are these help files available in an electronic format that can be used on a desktop machine or perhaps printed out?

Re: the N810 gps
 

The GPS on my N810 does not seem to work at all. For example, standing outside, with a pretty clear sky, it just says "Searching", and never finds any satellites at all. This is with giving it 10 mins to find one. (Yes, enable GPS was checked).

Anyone else had a dead GPS in their 810?

Thanks

Re: the N810 gps
 

Try using the agps-ui to see if it will then lock onto some sats.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Evidently you do not have time or resources to search the forum.
An unmodified, new N810 might take 30 minutes to get it's first lock.
Read the threads.

Re: the N810 gps
 

Diablo sorted it. It almost works like a real GPS unit now!