Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Interesting - good to see HSPA support.

Has somebody recorded the presentation?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I'm sure someone did it, however it will probably take some time to get it online.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I guess this confirms the speculation over Texrat's previous comment on being blown away by Step 5 of 5. Great news to see HSPA connectivity. I just wonder what this will do to potential N810WE sales - My guess is that people will hold off until the new Maemo device comes out

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

i worry what kind of effect hspa will have on price...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

He announced new processor... Hope they are not going to drop support for the old ones. I am really close to buying one but if they drop support in the next months...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

N96-level pricing may very well kill the platform.

Not particularly excited about the cellular stuff here.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

iirc, its omap thats being used today as well. dont know how backwards compatible cortex-based is vs the current one tho...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Well, the issue is less ARM-compatibility (Cortex A8 is armv7, ARM11 is armv6, one or the other is just a recompile away—and, fwiw, Debian is armv5 and works fine on OMAP2 and OMAP3) than all the extra features that might possibly be thrown in. Interface compositing with PowerVR, a RAM boost, much faster CPU. Basically, it's a similar situation to what happened with the 770.

Nokia did promise us at least 2 rounds of support per tablet, and the N810 has only gotten one (no, the dinky little Diablo update does not count as a round). So either Nokia breaks the promise (I picture rioting here) or, as Jaffa put it "hamstrings" the backport to keep it within the OMAP2's limits.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I doubt that a radio interface will change much about the price. I don't think the WiMAX hardware in the N810WE made it much more expensive, so why should HSPA hardware change much about an "N900HE" price-wise?

I don't get the negativity regarding cellular network support on here.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Or not.

At least, disapointing times like:

"Is it a phone?" (because it's a nokia) "No, it's an internet tablet" "Oh so what is it useful for?" And before I can explain, the person already thinks "then it's useless".

are over.

/me is happy with that choice.

By the way, today, a N96 is cheaper with a plan at a provider than the N810 is. So no, I really don't think it will kill the platform.

Maybe there will be some issue with the battery though... I'm pretty sure Nokia will handle it well.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Then you don't understand the cellular game. It's not just dropping in a cellular radio and calling it a day. There are lots government regulation bodies that require extensive testing and certification, all of which costs lots of money. Then there's the software implementation, which also costs money, and carrier requirements, etc, etc, etc.

In the end, it just ends up costing you, the consumer, a lot of money.

. . . and for somebody like me, who really can't afford adding $50 a month to his cellular bill, that's a Bad Thing™.

"Cheaper" you're paying out the *** for the cellular service.

Besides, there wont be any provider breaks for this, as it's data-only.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Hmm, then again how possible is Nokia to announnce two modifications at the same time? 3G and not? Like N810 and WE but released together?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

please excuse my ignorance here, but doesnt nokia have cellular radios that have been tested and certified already? why wouldnt those be used in the desired n9x0 device for cellular compatibility? again, i may be ignorant but, if they are tested and certified already, would a round of QA be all that needed to ensure that the platform still adheres to the requirements of certification?

i for one (and only one it seems) welcome that ubiquitous device that is a phone and mobile internet device in one. the convenience of having all of that connectivity in one sleek, sexy device is where my desires are.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

thing is that each phone that goes on market is tested, its not just a matter of getting a pre-tested radio...

if so, engadget would not have its FCC fridays for instance.

thing is this, take your avarage smartphone, check the price without carrier.

then take a tablet of similar specs...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I knew there would be many here feeling that way, but look at the big picture and how this broadens the platform. If anything enables future devices to go mainstream, it's the upcoming features Ari just revealed.

As for price, the sensible goal is of course to keep them as cheap as possible. But "cheap" is subjective. ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

right, each phone is tested when going to market, so use a radio that has been tested to work and cut the R&D costs.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Oh believe me, I understand it very well.

The NITs have always had radio interfaces that needed "extensive testing and certification" prior approval by national agencies, so what? Another interface won't make this all that much more expensive for Nokia. And if this was such an huge issue, they would have never done a N810WE. HSDPA-capable phones have become available for just a bit over 100€ by now, do you really think that just the cellular hardware without a screen, a housing, a battery, accessories, or most of the main electronics the phone needs would cost much more than maybe 30-50€? I don't think so.

In regards to carrier requirements: I think a lot of people on here need to at least try to look at the bigger picture - there's a huge market outside the US and its ridiculously fragmented mobile market dominated by control-freak operators. Nokia managed to sell the NITs on their own, without any subsidization, up to now. Why should this suddenly change?

That statement just doesn't hold any water right now - do you know anything about the N900's pricing? I certainly don't, but I certainly don't believe it will be much more expensive than any other tablet was in the beginning.

Well, nobody will force you into using any 3G radio the next-gen NIT will offer, simple as that. Once again, I'm sure it will be sold SIM-free (or contract-free or whatever) too.

And for me, having a dedicated SIM card slot is HUGE. Many operators here offer very good data-only contracts (eg 9€ for 3GB/month, which would suffice for the time I'm out of WiFI range), but as soon as you want to add a data option to a normal voice contract, they rip you off. So, just using bluetooth to connect via your normal phone is not really a good option for me.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

so if all one wants is a PDA, one should go out and buy a palm centro and forget that it has a mobile radio in there?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

lol... I knew, based on recent posts, that HSPA would polarize this community.

But it shouldn't. Think of it as another option. Right now you can choose N810 or N810WE. Someday you might add "NxxxHSPA" to that menu. ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

well, as long as there will be a N900 and a N900h(spa), its ok. but the presentation didnt exactly say that there would.

and the N810WE was a special order from sprint, no?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

If you think this is the right thing for your needs, yeah, why not? And if you don't think so, there's always something else that fits better, so you go for that.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Yes, but can I choose a plain old N900 without the damn HSDPA modem?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

In one sense it doesn't matter what drove the creation of the N810WE-- you're not tied to using Sprint as a WiMAX provider if you buy one. At least, not by contracts...

And you guys shouldn't get so worked up over the specs of one device, anyway, given that this will surely be a product family... someday, anyway. Now, some will be irritated that each progressive release may have much better features, and if the next device supports an unwanted SIM and perhaps costs an additional $XX for the luxury I can understand why they would be put off. But I think people will be surprised at the eventual cost. While you may not buy a Palm Centro solely for PDA purposes, you just *might* find the "NxxxHSPA" useful AND cost-acceptable even if you don't make cell calls with it.

And if nothing else, it becomes a backup phone (if/when the cell voice service is supported of course, or via VoIP)... and that's not a bad thing.

No idea. :p

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

sorry to say, but i have yet to see something that could rival the N800...

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I already am paying out the *** for the cellular service. It won't change anything.

There will probably be provider breaks for this, even if it's data-only.
In france, SFR is selling an EEEPC for 99€ with a 3G USB key and a 30€ unlimited data plan.
I guess there might be that kind of plan with the next tablet...
Probably even cheaper since mobile internet is getting cheaper and cheaper now.

Also, he said "online anywhere with cellular connectivity over HSPA for broadband anywhere", not that it will be data-only, it might also act as a phone, am I wrong?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Interesting; I'm glad that the range is extending, and this move will definitely have some analysts calling into question what Nokia wants to do with S60 now that that too is open source and cellular enabled. It would seem to me that Maemo and Symbian just overlapped considerably and one of those will not make it within 5-7 years time.

I'm not a fan of HSDPA for this; and at the same time I can see the thinking for a family of devices that would be enabled to do whatever data connection is needed whenever. From a marketing play for a services company, its smart.

Those with really nice eyes would see that in one of the slides to the presentaiton that there were a few Ovi shots there. Now, that in an of itself isn't a notable thing. But wouldn't it be a trip if the Maemo 5 UI pulled from what Nokia is doing with Ovi. The icons used for Ovi services are already slated to be used across the devices, so that would be just interesting.

High definition camera, eh. Considering that 5mpx Carl Zeiss lenses now compromise the low end of the N-series, this makes sense. Please tell me that there will be some innovative contextual uses of the camera beyond video calling and taking pics (geotagging, overlaying web with the real world, etc.).

All I wonder about at this point is the hardware design and the user interface. I'd like to know those before jumping in the pot that Maemo 5 is super great. Though, it does seem like a nice step #4 ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

So, the NITs are really becoming phones? I thought that HSPA radio would only be for data stuff and maybe VoIP ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I was speaking hypothetically, sorry. I won't get into those details any further. :D

EDIT: I see that Jaffa posted in another thread that this question was answered: data only for now. I guess someone wanting phone service will have to hack it. :D :D

EDIT 2: But in any event, doesn't it make VoIP even more viable? ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

iirc, 4G/LTE should basically be tcp/ip in mobile form, with the phone services as just another set of data streams (as in, a 4G handset would basically be a voip device). as i think about it, could it be that nokia is getting ready for that kind of environment?

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

General Ant. (Ryan) is absolutely correct that adding that radio will ruin the platform.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Hmm - I have some mixed feelings. On the one hand I often use the N810 on a plane, and while all the other people have to switch off their phone/pdas and haul out their laptops; I use my N810. (Phones arent allowed to be used on flights in my country, but computers are) The tethering-with-phone approach worked fine, but it meant 2 devices. If the N900 gets cellular, then it better be a great phone as well so it can feed off the 'one device' approach. I'm happy to hear about the faster processors. If they throw in TV (monitor) OI'm probably just about there with not carrying a laptop either. Anyone ever consider the idea of a docking station for the tablets? So I just carry my N900 around and plug it into a dock at the office and home to get big keyboard and screen? Of course I would need a proper word processor and spreadsheet......

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Eventually the entire phone service model will be flipped: everything will run on IP instead of the old "POTS" way or the hodge-podge we have now. Nokia would be crazy (as a corporate entity) not to get ready for that. ;)

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

You just told Nokia's eventual strategy for getting past the carriers. I really hope they don't get mad at you for making that this obvious.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

I nominate that statement as tablet hyperbole of the year.

And I'll bet you're wrong. Wanna wager? :D

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

If they (carriers) haven't understood that eventuality by now, then they deserve to lose business IMO.

But it sure does seem like the Big 2 (in the US) don't get it yet, doesn't it? :D

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Agreed. For a keynote, much of the presentation was about Maemo and how it's built. This is the first public discussion about Maemo 5 and there were four interesting bits in the whole presentation:

1. 80% of the device's software is now open source. The 20% is comprised of the high-level applications - which Nokia still think are differentiators & valuable *cough*
2. HSPA in the next device
3. HD camera in the next device
4. Nokia aren't interested in other manufacturers using Maemo at the moment.

As yet, we've seen nothing of the Fremantle UI which has a *lot* of work to do. Hopefully, we'll see some concrete details about Maemo 5 during tomorrow's DevSesh and even more during the summit.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Some, for sure, but once we have pricing details (for Xohm), those in current Xohm coverage areas may go with the N810W if it's lower or similar monthly cost as 3g data-only access. Even on reasonably expensive devices like this, monthly costs dominate long-term; some people may prefer the notion of WiMAX and saving $x per month over any other N900 improvements they think possible...

Oh, and regarding cost increase from adding radios, it is worth noting that the N810W and N810 had the same launch price. I'm not persuaded it's as bad as some people seem to think, though I still do think built-in cellular is wrong and a card slot is right.

Let's just hope they do it right and do a quad-band with UMTS band IV (T-Mo USA), though, since they're doing it.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

Most of you have no understanding of how the cellular industry drives designs, and it is that force which will ruin things.

As long as Nokia is free to develop the NIT as they saw fit the results are sweet. Once you invite the cellular folks to steer the ship, thing will go to Hell. Good to see Ryan understands this.

Re: Dr. Ari Jaaksi on Maemo 5
 

A device that is connected to a data only connection using a SIP for telephony interface and built on a largely open source platform has the ability to take carriers completely out of the mix, though will make backhaul and internet service providers feel even more like the utilities they are but aren't acting like.

This is disruptive technology at its finest.