The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I didn't want to hijack Rob's thread (http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ad.php?t=23704) so I decided to start a new one.

I would like to see a pocketable server that could support, among other things, multiplayer gaming with Mobile Internet Devices (MIDs) such as the N810. In fact the idea here is that the games could run on virtually any such device... which to me means creating games on Flash or Silverlight.

The pocketable server (PS) would have to have the following features:

-powerful mobile CPU (with even the possibility of multiple CPUs)
-significant static storage (SD or even microdrive)
-bluetooth
-wifi
-1 RJ45 port
-Linux OS (eg Debian)
-full services (routing, firewall, etc)
-mini USB (A/B type)
-very low cost (under $300 USD)
-support for game lobby interface (could be html)
-external SD slot (full size)
-1U max size
-1 usb port (with support for a powered up and RJ45 dongle)
-hot-swappable long life battery (possibly modular)
-internal SD card RAID array (individually replaceable)

There's something close: http://www.fatgadget.jp/e_products/openblocks.html

I'd also like to see (none of these are showstoppers):

-CF slot
-power hub (modular, so that it supports any brand of device)
-GPS (so the server can be a POI for ad hoc games)
-print server capability
-its own touchscreen LCD and/or ability to use an external screen

Discuss!

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I could support this idea.

But i'd rather my one tablet be able to do it all (computer-wise) without the requirement of a second pocketable device :)

Dont think it needs it's own screen.. SSH/VNC and a VGA out would be sufficient.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I've got Solitaire... that pretty much satisfies my gaming interest on something as small as an N800.

They already have these devices, they're called "laptops"

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I agree with tablets being able to do it all... but in the case of multiplayer gaming, my goal here is to remove the burden of host from at least one MID. In some games latency is important and if the host is serving and playing on the same device he may have either an advantage or disadvantage depending on various factors. An independent server helps level the playing field.

And good point about the screen. I will make that a secondary wish.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Then you're not the intended audience for such a thing... but thanks for playing anyway.

And no, I am not talking about laptops, Gene. Click the link in the original post for a closer fit.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I had post my thoughts in the other Thread
Here
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...410#post225410

and
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...0&postcount=15

I agree with fatalsaint, the external monitor connection is enough.
The disk should be a 1.8 inch 20-40GB drive so IT people in my field can copy lots of different applications on it and have it function like a file as well as game server when that time comes.

What would be the reason for the CF slot?
SD would be good and perhaps 2 host USB ports and one client port.
Print server?

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

CF slot is a secondary wish. There are CF drives and modems that might prove useful for such a device.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

What about size?
I'd suggest something around the size of a 3.5 inch desktop drive or smaller.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Agreed. I was thinking 1U max.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Why Ubuntu Mobile, exactly? It's mostly about GUI, none of which you will be using for a server.

Personally, I'd just pick up a Beagle or overo and drop it into a small homemade case, then put Ubuntu or Debian (hell, maybe Ångstrom) on it and call it a day. Cheap, small, expandable.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Agree with GA. Ubuntu not necessary .. Server install of Debian or similar would be all that's necessary.

once installed you can add what you want to it. Even game servers are CLI Dedi Linux's out in cyberwebz.. (except for the windows clowns that try and host their favorite FPS from their XP workstation.)

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

ok, cool, thanks for the info. I had assumed Ubuntu mobile had a smaller footprint. If not, no biggie (pun perhaps subconsciously intended).

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Hm. I had thought about a mobile server for a while, when I lean more toward the "many devices" approach to mobile computing. And, note, for me, this means "something with an internal battery", as it's not really mobile, to me, if it needs wall power or car adapter power in order to function. I always thought of it as more of an "in-backpack server" than "a pocketable server" though. Or perhaps PAN server. But it would be a file server, an network gateway, and maybe a few other things (VNC to it for running certain apps, for example).

I think it would be best to be about the size of a half-height 3.5" drive, an express card slot for peripherals, a few USB plugs (for keyboard, mouse, ethernet, USB optical drives, USB hard drives, etc.), mini- or micro-DVI plug (with DVI-A support), some form of storage expansion (I'd say a PCMCIA slot, because it can handle everything from SD card readers, to CF card adapters, to even a secondary express card adapter, but PCMCIA is going out of style ... so I dunno; I'd probably be happy with an SDHC slot), internal space for a 1.8" drive, a wifi module that can act as an access point, and maybe a bluetooth module (with DUN and FTP at least, but maybe more profiles as well). AND LOTS OF INTERNAL BATTERY LIFE ... I wouldn't mind if half of the internals were the battery :-)

I might go with ubuntu for it, but I think even more than ubuntu I'd probably go for a rather minimal debian install (for example, maybe not even installing X on it, since I would only expect to use the DVI port for the most basic and/or dire console based stuff ... and that assumes it's a PC-like architecture, if not, then an rs-232 console is good enough). The basic shell stuff, package management stuff, web server with webmin, NFS, Samba, NAT, and a few more things are probably enough for the base install. Just make sure it's easy to find repositories for installing things like drivers for your express cards and USB dongles, and other peripherals.

For CPU architecture? If you want it to be compatible with the most server software that you wouldn't have to do a ton of your own building for (esp. for for things like binary-only drivers that might come for some of the express cards), then I'd suggest SOME form of x86 processor. But, that doesn't necessarily give you great mobility options.

And, like I said, for me one of the tasks I'd put on this is "network gateway". One thing I'd love is to be able to put express cards in it from the various wireless carriers, and have the drivers give voice, sms/mms, and packet access. Then run a SIP server on it for accessing its voice capabilities, and a jabber server on it for accessing its SMS/MMS capabilities. Then, obviously, use the wifi access point functionality to route the packet data capabilities of the express card.

Now you've got a PAN server.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

There was a lot of talk about this over here like a couple years ago, when two companies made noises about Wifi/BT portable drives for mobile media sharing. Can't recall the names ATM though, and we never heard of them again.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I would not try to make this device too small if you are planning on putting a battery in. The full 3.5 inch drive size would allow for a large enough battery to run the device proabably for the entire day. Especially if it uses an x86 processor and carries all of the modules you mentioned. With your suggested dimensions it may run for the typical 2-3 hours.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

First off just wanted to say I think this is the next logical step from my original concept in the other thread (it's the same device with a slightly different application afterall), so I'm all for it. In terms of scale and battery, quite honestly I think there needs to be some more serious examinations of reality going on around here guys ;-) Yea, it'd be nice to be the same size as the tablet or smaller, but you really expect to achieve that AND have an internal Harddrive, USB hub, PCMCIA slot, etc...

The two hardware options I have in mind right now would consist of the following:
AMD Geode 500 Mhz processor... plenty of pump for a server, along with lots of power efficiency (for an x86 based processor).

2-3 fullsize USB ports... for, whatever. Extra card readers, devices, maybe a 3G modem if you're feeling lucky, whatever.

VGA output... For other uses mainly, not really beneficial for a "server", but would be very useful for other applications the device might take on

Internal USB Laptop Drive or CF card... both available in fairly large sizes for relatively cheap. (SDHC would probably come in the form of an extra USB card reader if desired)

1 hardwired ethernet port... for obvious reasons

802.11 wifi... again, obvious reasons here.

The whole battery thing... well, it introduces costs and physical size, that's all. Also, if you're talking about a mini HD, the battery is pretty pointless as you do NOT want to carry the thing around with the HD spinning... especially in a backpack.

Anyways, I'm persuing the hardware options right now, but it looks like it'd be somewhere around the $200-300 range, depending on whether it's got a HD or a CF card. Batteries/etc would add costs to the top of that, but again I haven't investigated battery options yet. Size wise the option with CF would be about 10cm x 15cm x 4cm-ish, the one with the HD is more like 15cm x 15cm x 10cm.

Oh, and for OS... I'd say something more like OpenWRT makes a lot more sense than Ubuntu or anything else, because it's designed to be very small/compact, quick to boot, and also very versatile in terms of packages and server type of software...

Just my two cents though...

-Rob

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Honestly, I don't see much point in a server that you have to plug in. That means HDs and x86 are out the window. ;)

The interesting thing to me is something ARM-based that can run off a battery for some appreciable period of time.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Thanks for the valuable input Rob! But I have to agree with GA on the CPU.

On that note, I have a couple of 770s with bad LCDs that might make good prototypes...

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

The size I picked isn't tablet size, it's 3.5" drive sized. That's a bit bigger than a tablet. Though, I'd go as far as half-height 5" disk drive sized.

As for the 1.8" drive socket, I don't intend that to be for a HDD. I intend that to be for an SDD, but there are mobile devices out there that use 1.8" HDDs. They're QUITE popular, actually (standard iPods).

I don't see the need for a hardwired ethernet port. I see the need for rock solid wifi, maybe two interfaces (depending on what it takes to definitely have a wifi access point, and optionally also have a wifi client, in the same box -- I don't know how many wifi devices can do both at the same time). Ethernet can come from an USB ethernet dongle, as far as I'm concerned :-} (if you're talking about using it for management and configuration, then I'd say "make sure it has a USB client interface" and do your management through that)

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Hardwired ethernet "just in case". But the usb dongle point has merit.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

The battery could definitely be a backpack design, though. Make the device flat-bottomed with rubber feet, so it sits nice on a table, but also have slide-lock notches to slap on a battery. (I'm thinking 3.5" drive but 2/3 the thickness for the bare device, and that much more for battery.)

If you do it right, you could slap a HDD on instead of the battery pack, and power the whole mess via wall-wart. (And if you do it really right, you could slap on both, and get limited shock-resistance and battery-life, but still have mobility and cheap storage.)

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Honestly, we've already got the guts of the hardware. Take an overo or a Beagle Board and slap it into a case with some accessories built in.

Done. ;)

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I agree about not having to plug it in. I don't agree that it rules out HDs, but it does eliminate full size HD's, and probably 2.5" HDs. But, as I pointed out, my reason for suggesting an disk slot was for an optional SSD, not for an HDD.

Are you suggesting a light weight home server? I've thought about that kind of thing too. Something like this could be used as a linux-based alternative to an airport base station, with lots of flexibility about access interfaces, storage, on-device services, etc. With the added bonus of an internal battery that can act as a UPS.

But, my primary interest is in an "in backpack" server/gateway device.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Bleh SSD. It's just a bunch of flash chips with an SATA interface attached. Cheaper and easier just to drop a bunch of SD cards in the thing (5-card RAID array anybody?).

Erm, home server that runs off a battery? . . .

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

That's what *I* was originally suggesting. ;) Sort of.

And "backpackable" is maybe a better description than "pocketable" (unless you have Benson-class pockets). Imagine that some young guy plops down on a city bus seat. Your MID is preconfigured to sniff for portable servers, and it suddenly spies one. You check the lobby and see a game you have and enjoy playing. If one is in progress you join. If one is not you request one. Others who have subscribed to notifications for the game being started are alerted that one has begun.

Of course, that was a highly mobile scenario and depends on everyone engaged being just as mobile as the server. ;) Otherwise, the device could instigate ad hoc meetups whereever, whenever. College campuses, parks, airport lobbies, etc.

EDIT: of course planned events are more practical.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Yeah, except I have the 770s on hand. ;)

The tricky part is adding the rest of the structure... especially the SD arrays (an idea I really like).

Also, the SD cards will need to be replaceable, given their limited life.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Depends on who you want to be using it. If it's just for this crowd of hobbyists, sure, that's reasonable. If you're talking about something that could eventually reach out in scope, I think they're not going to want to deal with a deck of SD cards.

Plus, I'd rather have one large (real) file system than 4 or 5 small ones that I have to juggle with things like a union file system, a (fragile) concatenated file system, etc. SSD == simple way to get an easy to manage 64GB+ file system.

Yes. So that it doesn't lose power during storms, doesn't need to interface with a UPS 10 times bigger than it, can be relocated without powering it off, etc.

I've thought about using an old or cheap (walmart special) laptop for that part (battery powered home server). But it would have lots of non-necessary parts, like the screen and keyboard, which would make it unnecessarily large.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I appreciate everyone's comments in this thread. This may be a pipe dream, but then so were many other currently successful products.

I almost have enough to start a company blog article.

Benson, could you do me the favor of revisiting my original specs but writing the essentials (plus extras) as you see it, and then posting? You seem to grasp some of the needs and technical aspects better than I currently do.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

. . . and pay several hundred dollars more than the stack of SD cards for it? No thanks.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Yeah, this would certainly have to balance cost/performance. Once it crosses the $400 USD threshold it loses a sizable share of potential users.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I like that idea a lot.

• Basic device with _some_ internal storage (2 or 3 SD cards, one for OS, one or two for user storage).
• External battery pack (people already make those, just have to be sure it'd work with whatever is delivered)
• Ability to power an external storage device (either directly over USB, or via the battery pack ... so hopefully the battery pack chosen can power at least 2 devices).
• Some sort of casing that will allow you to conveniently attach them together for easy carrying (slots and rails? lego snaps ;) ?)

Though, that's starting to sound an awful lot like what the Buglabs project is for. I don't remember if they have battery and storage modules, though. That and a PCMCIA or ExpressCard module would probably be enough for _me_.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

a) then leave the slot empty

b) someone already makes a "build a SATA SSD from (SD or CF?) cards" device. Plug that into it, and you've got your card array.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Would a fit-PC do? I found it on Engadget.com

It has a 500MHz Geode and runs on 12V. Price w/WIFI but no HD is $245. W/WIFI, 60GB HD, and Linux it's $295.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

That's a better price than the OpenBlockS... hmm...

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I went and checked on BUG's site.

They have battery and storage modules proposed, but not already in the works. But they do have some existing storage options. They _are_ working on a GSM module though.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

If you're going to host game servers on it some are closed source and require x86 (or x86 compatibility). Some also require quite some resources. If this is important maybe Intel Atom is an option. I read today they're going dual-core.

Quake1/2/3 servers are very portable though. I even ran this, with client, on SGI MIPS. :D Enemy Terrirory I don't know, its basically a Q3 mod.

I'd also love DVB-H on it because public television broadcasts (similar to the Beeb) on DVB-H are free here (already paid for via tax).

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

Please check the original post. The goal here is for applications (games, etc) that are highly portable. Forget x86 dependencies. That's too Microsoft-centric. I'm talking flash, java, silverlight, etc.

Personally, I don't care to support ANY closed source apps for this premise.

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

No, it's not just Microsoft-centric; Apple makes closed-source x86 stuff, too! :p

I'm not sure quite what you meant earlier about revisiting, but I'm gonna take that as a request/license to look at the first post and ramble something ~5 times as long as it. ;) See you in a few!

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

I know, but I think we both realize who has the lion's share. Plus I said "too". :p

Re: The Case for a Pocketable Server
 

The "Fit PC Slim" is one option that I'm currently looking at, the other would be with a CF configuration instead of the 2.5" HDD slot, but the price points would also be lower (thinking somewhere around $200 with wifi and a small CF, larger CF/HDD/SDD obviously adding more costs). Comparable specs in terms of processors/etc as FitPC (based around the same processor and chipset). Big advantge to this hardware would be that it has a second MiniPCI slot, so if you wanted to add more hardware that's a pretty good expansion option.

I think the external battery pack is a better idea than trying to intergrate it into the device; that way lots of options for size/capacity/etc are available and taken care of.

We all know that GA loves his OMAPs, and I'm in no way saying that the Beagle board and OMAP3 systems aren't awesome, but I just can't see them being ready for this sort of application right now, both from a development point of view and from a cost point of view.

For the record as far as power consumption goes the x86 Geode equipment is quite conservative; the big difference between it and the OMAP/ARMs is the sleep/low power modes which in this scenario I don't see as a big factor.

-Rob