Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

This recurrent topic about the PIM: enough discussion about the same! Please help moving this old debate forward following the maemo.org process:

- Vote on current enhancement requests or open new ones at http://bugs.maemo.org

- Summarize more complex proposals at http://wiki.maemo.org

- Let's have all the requests and proposals listed in a single wiki page easy to forward to the Maemo SW teams studying or working in this kind of functionality.

Skeptic? If you forget about the "PIM" word you might be happy to know that there is some R&D work going on. For instance, are you aware of the calendar engine project in Garage?

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM

Sounds like a likely target, just go in and edit the page and add your ideas/comments (with your name & date/time please so we know who to talk to/about)

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

None of those pages contain _anything_ ...

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

"Those" pages? It's one page, and it hasn't been started yet. :rolleyes:

You've clearly got an opinion on the subject, why don't you step up and start being constructive? :)

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

As I searched for PIM in bugs.maemo.org and found nothing I suppose it would be a good idea to start from ground up at the wiki?

The ical project in garage seems to be quite fresh and for me it's not clear (because there's nearly no doc there) if we would add topics in the wiki which are fullfilled in that project already?!

So, Quim:
- Is the idea to start in the wiki page from ground up with requests for PIM?
- Add a table there perhaps with a column for the according status, bug#, etc.?

So the wiki is the start - and afterwards we step into bugs.maemo.org?

asys3

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Actually, there were two (the hephaestus project page, which is just about a completely empty project page, and then the Task:PIM page).

If it hasn't even been started yet, why post about it here (a discussion forum)? There's not really much to discuss, there, yet. Why not wait until a little more bootstrapping has been done before it's posted here for discussion?

I'm happy to add to something, but I don't have time to lead something.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

The whole point of the thread isn't to show off something that's been completed, but to challenge the community to be more proactive about getting PIM than whining "I want PIM". So jump in and outline what you want. Put up or shut up.

So, yeah, of course there isn't very much started yet. . . .

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Well as a first step I added some common features that are usually requested.
Calendar/Address book components.
Mind you - this is all coming from a basic user - me. Do correct my entries wherever you feel appropriate.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

First of all we need atleast the pim functionality of any n series phone out there included in the os. Then we can talk about enhancement and bug fixes. It is grossly lacking there.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

And your attitude is so thoroughly encouraging me to contribute. Nice to know you're one of the people who represents the community.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Mainly as Quim had suggested we put the info on the wiki, so I thought I'd specify where we'd put it to avoid lots of different pages springing up.

Anyway Nilch has put some ideas down, and I've added a section about the shortcomings of existing PIM apps (though I've only mentioned a few calendar apps). Those who have an opinion and who've used and found shortcomings with the existing apps please add some comments/extra apps/databases/whatever so we can get a handle of the status of the various projects, what needs to be improved, etc.

Thanks,

Simon

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Please refer to my initial post:

1 vote/file specific requests.
2 go wiki for those proposals more conceptual/vague/exprimental.
3 get all the relevant links in that single wiki page.

*A lot* has been proposed and discussed already. Remembering and linking could save a lot of work specially covering the basics.

If you think it twice, there is no need to wait for anything to talk. It's not only about Nokia listening or not. Reminding Nokia about the functionality existing in Nseries (namely S60) is just the preliminary and pretty obvious step. Obviously Nokia knows that very well - no matter what has and hasn't been done in Maemo.

Like with the Fremantle Killer Apps, the exercise is as useful to Nokia as to the own community and 3rd party developers in seeing what are the great ideas and points of most interest. And the names abl to move them forward. Think visionary. Think Harmattan. Squeeze your brains showing that you are getting it so right.

Move away from the PIM word trap.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

I added a bunch of stuff and then realized Nilch was a user's wishlist. Oops. Should I move my stuff around?

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

No, that's fine. Would it be worth expanding the existing apps part to give features they do support as well as features they don't support?

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Yes! There may be some things that are definite keepers in some apps. For example, GPE's todo with a % complete is nice, and Pimlico's (and mCalendar's) biggie-size time buttons...

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Ok, I've added Good/Bad sections for the various apps, please people get filling in even more. Thanks for starting off Nilch and BoxOfSnoo

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Can i requst for:

1. Timer
2. Stop watch
3. World time

in this section?

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

This is really cooking now. Great to see everyone's input!

Would I offend many by saying that I hope these core solutions aren't going to be done in Python? it seems like Python apps are 1) great for ad-hoc applications 2) not very robust 3) a little more sluggish than good native code.

If I see another Python error dump when trying to manage my schedule I'm gonna do something terrible to the device, I'm sure. :)

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

This statement got me thinking - why do we always think of PIM as a mix of
1) Calendar component
2) AddressBook component
3) Todo Component

Why cant there be 1 app - which has all these functions built in and integrated as a single interface (with sections maybe to differentiate some aspects - particularly the GUI part).

I am just thinking about the functions (not GUI aspects) here.
A single app which shows events, contact, notes, reminders, and todo's and which all speak in the same language (data format) so that function one can inter-operate with the other seamlessly without those pesky import/export formats ...

Of course one major impediment to this thought of course is that the rest of the world already thinks (and designs) PIM as those separate components with their own data formats and protocols, so we have to support all those protocols for each of the functions I guess to interact with the rest of the world's PIM apps.

Just trying to jiggle my mind ... sorry if I am not getting anywhere with this.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

I myself would like to see a component that functions as a e-mail reader that automaticly synks with any e-mail client, gmail for an example, and have it automaticly update whenever it gains acsess to a network and i would like it to be fairly simple to use (kinda like how the rss-feed reader is layed out) but with multiple useful features such as IM client and calender event tracking for keeping track of your on-line scedual and also a contacts manager.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

With regard to mCalendar's biggie-size _scroll_bars_, I'd prefer to have drag scrolling (which can work with an ultra-narrow scroll bar) to thumb size scroll bars. But, for other widgets, I agree -- biggie/thumb size.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

My main suggestion was going to be:

SyncML

But asys3 already suggested it (though, under "Address Book", you put "dates" instead of "contacts" :-) ). And I'd add making sure that it not only works with funambol and evolution, but also GooSync (commercial, but ensures Google support).

My only other thing would be that under Todo list, it says "should optionally be finger-friendly" ... If that means "you can set a preference for 'drag scrolling with ultra-thin scroll bar and thumb size other widgets' vs 'stylus sized scroll bars and other widgets' vs 'all thumb sized, scroll bar and other widgets'", then yes. But if it means "finger-friendly is not a required goal of the project", then no. It should not be an optional goal, it should be a mandatory goal of all aspects of the project (not just Todo).

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

On the wiki, what is the "slapd" thats listed at the bottom? Ive never heard it mentioned before nor seen it anywhere.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Your question reminded me of Chandler (http://chandlerproject.org), not a project I track, but one you might want to scope out.

Meanwhile, I went to go create an account at wiki.maemo.org, but the "log in/create account" page only has a login screen, no ability to create account that I can see. I'm stumped...

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

I for one would love to see and address book with the ability to click the phone number and make a phonecall using dialcentral

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

I've tried a little different approach and added General needs title to the wiki. I'm thinking we should also approach this from a more abstract point, meaning that listing what we need to do with the tablet instead of laying down some hard software features.

For example, I'm thinking that if we have a solid engine in the background, there might not be need for a distinct calendar program. Instead the same functions could be handled with some widgets that just enable you to look up a day, enter a event or something.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Please post all these details and additions in the wiki page. This thread will become probably yet another long ITt thread insane to follow and go through by anybody joining late. Adding a point in the wiki page serves much better the final purpose.

Thanks!

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Normally it refers to the OpenLDAP Daemon. In this context it means something different.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

If you already have a maemo.org account, use those credentials. Otherwise go to http://maemo.org/, click on the "create account" link (top middle right) and create an account there.

We'll get the wiki fixed to have a create account link too.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Hmmm...I wanted to update the section about kdepimpi....

I logged in using my garage.maemo.org account. I saw the page:

However, when I follow the "Return to Task:PIM." link, it takes me back to the PIM page but shows me as not being logged in and won't allow me to edit the entry. The behavior remains if I force my browser (Firefox 3/Linux) to reload the page directly (not from cache).

The same behavior also exists if I access the "secure" version of the wiki at https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?tit...dit&section=33

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

hmm, interesting, I'm automatically logged in on this computer and I get this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM I am then able to edit the page.

I wonder if you logged in on the main wiki page, then typed in the address if that would have you logged in on the right page.

In any case this sounds like a browser error - which one are you using, and do you have any funny settings (like no cookies, etc?)

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

I'll try that.


As I said, I'm using firefox 3 under Linux. I've gotten the same behavior from minefield (firefox 3.1) under Linux, and from firefox 1.5.2 (also linux) from a different server. I've also gotten the same behavior from MicroB (Diablo) on my N810, accessing the Wiki from a different network than the other attempts.

In each case, cookies are turned on and there's no proxy cache.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

You are a victim of this bug:

After logging in to Wiki, immediately not logged on next page
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3788

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

The Wiki-Page contains the word "crap.." ATM, nothing else.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Hmm, not sure what's going on there, will have to see if there's been some error on the db (the history is still there, and the last edit doesn't appear to have deleted everything and replaced it with "crap...".

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

The General informs me that that's the message Squid produces when it "craps out". Not very helpful, but at least we know it's not wiki vandalism.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Umm, is Squid really necessary there?

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

Thx quim for the link about the garage project, i ven't seen it before.

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

It's not, it just happens to be the way it is for the moment.

Don't fret or worry. It's on the agenda and the maemo.org guys know what they're doing. :)

Re: Did you say PIM? Come here please
 

crap..


(blabla for too short verification)