Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Been looking for a good strategy game and a good calandar app for my Nokia N810 Diablo. Anything that I find comes with cavets, e.g. "this or that doesn't work yet", "problems with music". A good example is Calend (Gene Cash's python PIM programs) which is a calander app that has been ported to 2008. At first this looked like a sweet app - just what I wanted, but upon further research I find it is bug-infested ( https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?at...12&func=browse) .

This seems to be the state of most 3rd party N810 apps which seem to be hacked together by hackers and hobbiests. Damn I love the hardware and default apps of the N180 but many of the 3rd party apps are basically unfinished junk. This is very disappointing to me.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Let me understand. People that create for the love of technology and share for free with others are a disapointment to you. Clearly the quality and completetness of open source software varies as it does for commercial products -- think Vista. Some open source is excellent and some a work in progress. Projects are frequently released when something useful has been accomplished even if the long term plan is for considerable enhancement and expansion of the feature set. In the open source community the community participates in the quality control effort. Bugs and feature enhancements are reported by all members. The price of free use is participation. If a member of the community perceives a lack of function they are free to create that function and share with the rest of us. True members paticipate within the limits of their capabilities.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

What bothers me is that there's not much commercial level 3rd party software for the N810 (unlike the iPhone/iPod touch). What would make me feel better is if the open source movement had a simple two-tier classification system: 1. Ready for mainstream use (commercial level, NOT EVERLASTING BETA SOFTWARE). 2. Under development (not ready for commercial use). The decision to put a piece of software in category 1 or 2 could be made by a panel of open source luminaries (whoever that may be).

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

I have been using the open source GPE calender for about a year and have had no problems with it and my two google calenders. Open source is what it is, if you want more commercial software you are better off with an iPhone, Symbian s60 or a Windows mobile device.

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This may come as a surprise for you, but it is really hard to find any applications that are not bug-infested (be it commercial or free software). Of course exceptions exist for the areas where bugs can cost human life or introduce huge expenses.

It just happens that commercial vendors do not usually publish any information about their bugs for free access to everyone and put efforts into advertising their products as being high quality/superiour/best in the industry/etc. It is understandable as they want to make money and being completely honest does not pay off.

On the other hands, public bugtrackers of free software projects may contain a lot of bugreports, with quite a large share of them being duplicates, old unconfirmed bugs (somebody reported a single crash for example, but nobody could reproduce it later and the problem might be fixed long ago already), behaviour not expected by user but questionable if it is really a defect, very minor rarely encountered problems, etc. Really important and especially critical bugs are usually fixed quite fast. You can't directly judge quality only based on the number of issues registered in the bugtracker. Bugs are just not equal and a major bug may be a lot worse than a whole bunch of minor ones. Also popular and heavily used projects may have long error lists, with none of them being critical, while less popular projects may have lower quality with lower number of people caring to report bugs.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Thanks for your help mobiledivide. Although I went to the website for the GPE Calendar and got the impression that it is a hack of an old Palm app, I'll try it out.

And you're right about what I should do if I want more commercial software. But I do love the N810. It's just that when I bought it I had expected more support in the near-future from commercial-level 3rd party developers. But it seems that numbers outweigh superiority - and they ran to support iPhone/iPod Touch which really makes sense if one is "commercial".

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I agree with you about commercial software also being buggy and about commercial developers' incentive to be less than honest. But at least commercial software is usually more finished when it is released to the public (after getting out of the beta stage of course).

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What a hilariously messed up way to determine application quality. I believe this is one of the tactics Microsoft uses, actually.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Hi Dan,

Be happy you're able to see bugs, and remember you're able to contribute your pennies to such problems. If you'd like to see the bugs in Microsoft Windows you're gonna get quite a shaft: they don't have a public bug tracking system. If you take Apple, they're not open about their security patches either. Bugs in Symbian and Windows Mobile applications have existed; some for long time.

Don't forget this community has contributed a lot to Maemo, Nokia, and the members of the community.

The state of PIM (or PIM-esque) applications is low on the NIT, I agree with you on that. There are many options available but none of them is polished or perfect. However, one can use cellphone for this, or use Google Calendar integration, use a Palm emulator, or one of the many PIM applications available.

You can help to contribute to solving the problem by following this thread and expressing yourself after you read the thread.

As for strategy game. Look at the Games subforum. There are tons of games for the NIT as well as tons of emulators.

If you prefer a vendor lock-in, closed source and proprietary solutions, limited set of applications, SLA or commercial grade support then the (current) NIT is not made for you.

Basically, the current state of the N800 and N810 is that they're not yet end user friendly in some regards. The tablet and new OS to be released approx summer 2009 will make huge leaps forward in this regard. Stay tuned!

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

some quick thoughts on software availability and quality.

quantity: symbian and windows mobile have been around for quite a while. iphone is the current media darling, so if you get your app known related to that you can make good money, quickly.

quality: again, two platforms been around for a while, so its apps have gotten time to mature. oon the iphone app store apple is doing some degree of sorting, stopping some junk apps from getting access.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

to GeneralAntilles:
U might think it's hilarious but I think it's sensible to bypass an app after research that determines that the app might only be problematic, cause other problems, or leave orphan junk files around after it is uninstalled.

to mobiledivide:
I installed GPE Calendar and I must admit it does everything that I want and more and has a lot of functionality that I can't figure out yet (I guess I'll try to find a manual as there's no help function). But in true open-source style, after two minutes it hung my complete system requiring a hard reset. It has display problems and response to user input problems, which sometimes require the app to be restarted. But it is usable. But I'm still not sure if it is a keeper or another irritation that will cause me to make more negative posts here.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

See, but that's not anywhere close to what that statistic tells you. You do realize there's over 3000 bugs in the the Maemo bug tracker I mean, that's like, 200 times the number of bugs in the calend tracker. It must be the worst software in the world! But wait, oh god the Firefox bug tracker has over 465,000 bugs!!! With that many bugs it probably explodes your whole computer! :rolleyes:

So, you see how useful that metric is? I'm sure you've used Firefox, and it seems to work OK, as does Maemo. The only thing that an active bug tracker indicates is that that product has an active community of people filing bugs. It doesn't tell you anything about the quality or stability of the product. :)

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

I wish, when browsing threads in these forums, there was a simple two-tier classification system for posts: 1. Worthy Posts; Helpful threads, interesting news, or genuine questions about software and/or hardware, and 2. Trolls and Whiners; Includes "Why I bought another device" posts, "This Sucks" posts, posts that ask for a feature or piece of software but title the thread like it was an announcement, and posts that ask questions couched in nasty, negative, or argumentative language. The decision to put a post in category 1 or 2 could be made by a panel of forum luminaries, whomever that may be.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

(Worthy Post) I totally agree, let's vote on it! (just kidding)

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

slashdot has a decent moderation system in place.

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Don't you idiots get it!? I am a user who is really trying to appreciate a device that I basically love and think is superior. But the current state of 3rd software won't let me!

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

I was really on the fence with this thread. I could feel both sides. I just thought that you were just having issues articulating your point, but really dude? You had to go there? There was no need for that. <rant> While I overstand that you can become passionate when talking about something, in the end its just a gadget that we own. I have always followed the thinking that you should never talk politics or religion. I think it has become a sad state of affairs when people become zealots over things. Relax. Seriously. And before you try to go off on me or anyone else, you can't 'cyberthug' (damnit you made me use air quotes. I HATE air quotes) me. If you feel over strong or feel I have insulted you we can settle it like men or real thugs, but I don't play the whole flame game.
I love my 810 just as much as the next guy and since I'm not a coder, the only way I can see to improve the state of a project I am interested in is to submit gigs and give feedback based on my usage. So either deal with it, make something better or move on to something else, but either way take a deep breath and chill the fcuk out.
To evryone on the board allow me to apologize if I have offended anyone with my comments but I am getting tired of leaving forums because the degenerate into a place where genuine issues can't be discussed due to a bunch of people that can only rag on others work. I don't care if your app is the most simple and bug ridden thing in the world. Keep at it and know that at least one person appreciates your efforts. </rant>

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Ah... after only 16 posts in your thread, you've hit upon the number one tactic in gaining support for your position; start personally berating those that endeavor to participate in your conversation.

I shall endeavor to remember your screen name, lest I accidentally help you or provide an answer you seek, only to be insulted in return.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

My mom told me not to feed the animals. But I never listened 'cause I think it's funny when the apes fling their poo. Behind plexiglas of course.

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Ooo ooo ooo!

The Internet is like one big sh*tstained plexiglass wall at the Ape House, isn't it.

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Dude, that was funny. I'm still laughing. I can picture the first time I wandered in to one. I remember wondering, "why is this exhibit separated from all the others?" It was a "c" shaped enclosure with no windows on the outside. But enough about the internet...

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

I think this could help if anyone is feeling a little frustrated with their n810. Granted, it's not software, but it's really cool. Don't even wrap it; actually use it as a stocking when you're giving an n810 to that special someone.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

hey dapler, nice avatar you have there ;)

and as a user of a similar product, im not sure if your last post is a joke or serious...

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Why, thank you. If the wallet size is too small for you, click here for something you can put on your night stand.

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those comments reminds me why i never bother to visit engadget any longer, reading the rss feed is enough...

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Yeah, they served up a meatball and those commentators whiffed. But I will not turn in my card; its posts like this that give engadget Monty Python status in my book. "And now for something completely different." Which is my suggestion for all you kiddies out there when your frustrated with your n810.

I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for, but I think this clip is funnier than the Philosopher's World Cup. Skip to 1:45.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Clearly when you have expectations that exceed reality you will be disapointed. I find the N810 an excellent device. Perhaps that's because before I purchased it I thought about what I'd want from it and researched the product here and elsewhere. Like most devices it has what I'd call from my perspective, flaws -- internal GPS for example. If that makes me one of TokyoDan's idiots, so be it.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Well, I carry a bag (just to my car), so that would be slightly hypocritical if I were joking about the item. And I certainly know very little about marketing, but that picture is funny. Though maybe not as funny or cool as this useful product.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

You all still don't get it! I not trying to gain support for my position. I don't have a position. The only thing I have is the fact that the N810 is a great first rate device with second (or third) rate 3rd party software. And that fact bothers me. Actually I'm thinking of selling it to some other "open-source type" here in Tokyo and buy an iPod Touch. (But then I couldn't study Python on my little device. Hmmm.)

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

I apologize to all for my "You idiots" statement. I didn't really mean that maliciously. I meant it in a playful way and didn't really expect anyone to take it personally or seriously. Of course no one here is an idiot. And this forum and most participants on it are very helpful. The reason I made that statement was because I was trying to get away from a debate about the viability, standard, and concept of open source software. I just wanted boil things down with a simple statement describing my feelings about 3rd party software for the N180.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

If you do, you have to promise us that you won't come back here and tell us how great your iTouch is.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

I promise but I'm still hanging in there a little longer with my N810. I love the Python environment and PyGTKEditor.

You see, not everything I say is negative.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

heh, i guess we all find something we like with these devices, and keep using them ;)

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Please, do sell your device to someone who appreciates the device. A happy customer is a custuomer. An unhappy customer is a burden. Actually, if you bought it recently you should have some kind of law which allows you to bring it back because you're not satisfied with it.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

TokyoDan,

The way I see it is that you picked the weakest area w.r.t. to available software for the N8x0. There simply are no good, stable, all-functional Calendar applications. Not yet. Don't know if or when that will happen. That's why I use my Palm PDA for calendar functions.

It's probably boring or tiresome to write a Calendar application which works as well as the Palm one, that's my guess why there's not that much coming out of the existing activity. Just like the open source area is weak in some other niches, it's not fun or interesting to write so it's not being done. Or not done well. Not enough developers or eyeballs.

On the other hand, there are other types of applications which are clearly fun or interesting to write, or there are enough developers with a keen interest. Look at Maemo Mapper, for example, which hasn't failed me once since I installed it (correction - it failed me once, with saving tracks, but that was fixed in due time. As happens with all good open source applications, of which there are many).

In fact, except for calendar and other pim-like applications, the software situation on the N8x0 isn't bad at all - the worst ones are actually the closed source ones! Not the open source applications. They're generally better, IMO. Because interested users can fix them. I wish I could have the full source of the old email application, if so I'm sure I could have fixed the to small, but annoying problems with it. Instead we're stuck with whatever comes out of the next whole-system upgrade.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

from what i can tell, it seems most here either use a phone or google as their pim. in the latter case, with the tablet acting aas terminal...

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

I use Google as a backend for my desktop, laptop and as much as posible my N810. I need to be able to synchronize with Google calendar for example because my N810 depends on WiFi for Internet connections. My N810 is my "constant companion". I've been using mCalendar which has a couple of synch bugs. Namely, synch completes but the progress indicator hangs at 60% and with daylight savings mCalendar adds ones hour to all appointments entered online with Google calendar. I'm going to check and see if those bugs have been filed.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

:D ... I think all the people who wrote "my x is better than N8x0 because of..." want to prevent other non-developers to have to much expectations from this type of device.
I got my N810 for 0 cent and I was very disappointed the 1st weeks. Then I said, ok, let's try to work with this gadget. But it wasn't my personal device. Most of the time it stays at home.

Re: Nokia N810 Frustration
 

Thanks for your encouragement. Actually I installed the gpe-calendar and I'm quite happy with it. As for Maemo Mapper, I wonder if there are any detailed maps of Tokyo, the one on the maemo mapper site wasn't very detailed. GPS, mapping is all new to me and I wonder if there are depositories of Japan-based maps that I can download to use with Maemo Mapper. Also I am interested in the activity of Geocaching. Do u know if there are any apps for the N810 that would allow me to get involved in Geocaching?