The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

As someone who jumped in with some spare cash and has not looked back or concerned myself with actual delivery dates. I know it will come but the process we now have to go through is getting to be insane.

My order was charged to my account

Wed, Oct 1 2008DRAFT WDL POS($373.35)
GP32 DISTRIBUTION NEWCASTLE UP

I was refunded

Tue, Dec 2 2008DRAFT DEPOSIT POS$304.11
GP32 DISTRIBUTION BATTERSEA

And I am being told to reorder. I inquired about what happened to the rest of my money???

I was told

"Hi,

The difference in the price is due to the exchange rate at the time of the refund. As the bank has insisted we refund orders we have no control over this. But the re-order price will be approximately the same as the refund you have received.

We are really sorry for all the inconvenience this has caused."

--------------------------------------------------

I am starting to become concerned about this whole mess. How about anyone else?? I am planning on reordering still, and it sure as heck better not be more than $304.11 for my console and AV cables....

I still cannot reorder until they send a new link.
Is anyone else experiencing this same process and money discrepancy ?????

To be clear the pandora team has been responsive to all my questions and very courteous. But the process is now giving me some concerns

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Yeah, I'm generally unimpressed with the delays, and mainly the lack of information and very very optimistic predictions for when things will be finished.

I'll probably still get one when the re-order link is finished (I'm in the UK so no money change issues for me), but really it's just a placeholder until the "N900" comes out.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

I lost 8 euros in reordering, but that was because I reordered using a bank transfer and was charged with costs (I knew this beforehand, but used the transfer because I'm going to be off the grid soon). Had I used my credit card again, I would have actually gained about 5 euros.

It certainly is a big cr*pfest, but the blame is entirely on the effing bank, not the developers.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Penguinbait:
- You paid an amount X in dollars that was equivalent to an amount Y pounds at the time.
- You got refunded Y pounds, to a new exchange rate, amounting to Z dollars.
- When you re-order, you will have to pay that exact same Y pounds that you originally paid, and which you got refunded.
- To pay those Y pounds you now only have to pay Z dollars.

In other words, unless the exchange rate fluctuates a lot between you receiving the refund and you re-ordering you'll end up with losing whatever extra charges you had to pay at the time of the original ordering (and whatever charges you have to pay now). You _don't_ lose due to the exchange rate changes: The pound dropped compared to the dollar. You got less dollars back, but there are less dollars to pay, for the same reason.

Now, if that CC re-order link could just get ready.. apparently it depends on those final refunds reaching some US customers. It's all in the hands of that darn bank, apparently.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

I've had this happen in the past: it isn't the retailer's fault, only the banks benefit from the difference in exchange rate. If you contact your card issuer they will usually be happy to issue a credit to compensate for the change in exchange rate.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

the middle man always gets his money, no matter what happens...

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

I understand, and as I stated, I had better not be charged more than $304.11. However if I had at this point decided to NOT reorder, I would be out about $69. Quite honestly if N900 was out I would not even reorder, and I would just lose my $69. The Pandora console for me though was never about a maemo replacment, it was about having a handy dandy little gaming device that runs linux too.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Well there are obviously bank issues, but there are still delays in the LCD orders, they have not been completed (and the delivery date for finished devices was supposed to be over a week ago).

Add to that the fact that the cases have only just been finalised and nothing but prototypes still exist, and also that there are production issues with the boards + chips (i.e. sticking them on) which haven't been sorted and it's certainly not just the banks.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Well, it is about a lesson now: Never ever preorder anything from shady little startups that have no previous record of hardware manufacturing or design. And it does not matter how many "open source" stickers are plastered over their web page. If you are betting money, at least make good bets.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Good bets are ones that are backed up by a credit card ;)

I'm not overly worried about the money (as in whether it's a scam), just that I can see the Pandora moving progressively backwards into the assumed launch date for the "N900" (which means it will be a waste of money to get a Pandora when I'd far prefer to hack on the "N900").

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Well its a lesson that I have learned, although its not the lesson to which you are referring. As I said I will reorder.

I will be very cautious in the future about ordering from other countries as I did not realize someone could take one amount from me and then refund a lessor amount, all perfectly legally.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

the big thing is you have already lost money because the exchange rate shifted but what if it shifts again and they want about 500 from you. That is possible.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

It seems the N900 will (might/would?) have only 128 MB of RAM and probably therefore also only 256 MB of NAND. Also, I haven't heard any mention of TV-out for the N900.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

We do not know how much RAM or NAND the N900 will have. Speculation based on kernel code (currently clearly intended for dev boards) should not be taken as an announcement of the specs of the final product.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Oh, I agree. Nothing about an allegedly final N900 should be taken for granted.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Nor, apparently, an allegedly final Pandora.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Actually, at this point, you will have to pay more than 304.11 USD (don't use $ sign; alone it means nothing) because of the exchange rates. These depend on your bank though. The exchange rates they used depend on their bank.

However why did their bank issue a refund?

If it is possible to deny transactions from banks you could put this bank on there.

And the 'it isn't our fault' is a bit finger pointing. If it is their banks fault and not theirs they should take another bank. And they could inform their customers about this.

Indeed. And consider to not jump on the early adopter bandwagon.

Actually, I can 'pre-order' here too, and have done this succesfully. However this was done in real life, and in trust of each other. I say I want X, the store doesn't have it. They say: well, we can order it for you, but then please pre-pay Y amount (usually a couple of tens, with more expensive things this rises; its something like 5-10% of the total; def not more than 33%). For this I receive a receipt. Once they have it, the remaining debt is immediately fullfilled at the moment the transaction takes place.

Likewise, don't send something unless you have received payment. I sometimes receive something while I haven't even paid yet, or payed on the very day I received it. For example yesterday (monday) I received something I paid for sunday...

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

You could haven't searched very well.
I have mentioned the TV OUT thing here.

But as says GeneralAntilles, are only speculations, nothing yet, it's only a kernel for a pre-alpha SDK.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Hehe, I have been an Amiga user and I know that for a lot of hardcore fans the proper lesson takes 2-3 iterations to learn :)

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Well I am not surprised nor unhappy. Before I preordered I knew any ETA given by openpandora team is just wishful thinking. They have to be insanely optimistic to go into such endeavour so you can't by definition believe any date they will give you in good faith. Still, the progress can be clearly seen so I am not worried. N900 may be more slick and polished but I am getting Pandora for gaming controls and 2 full SD slots. This is niche product from gamers for gamers. Tablets are going into other direction (i.e. mainstream 'castrated' product with any rough edges and radical ideas removed for your safety and comfort).

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

These N900 vs Pandora wars are absolutely silly.. and petty! These products aren't even our in anyone's hands yet! Near as I can tell, they sound more and more alike. ...and also we know Atari ST's were better than Amiga. **cough** :D

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Karel, I asked on another thread but didn't get a reply, probably because the thread dropped off or something.

I'm usually interested in your posts, and i know you are obviously interested in/a supporter of the Pandora, but do you actually have an *interest* in it, ie in some business sense? I know it's really none of my business, but as someone who checks this forum daily and finds it a great source of both information and entertainment (for many reasons) and i'd dearly like to know,

cheers!

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

I'm in the funny situation that GBP still keeps going down (but isn't that also true for GBP vs. USD?), so while I'm waiting for the CC setup to come online I'm getting to pay less and less.. 3% less as of today. With luck the change should cover any extra charges I may run into. Whereas, if I had paid via bank transfer the same day as the refund arrived I would have come out even (except for the bank transfer charge, which is a bit large to stomach.. one of the reasons I'm waiting for the CC setup, while the pound keeps dropping.)

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Wow, this is... shocking! Shocking, I say! Who would have guessed!!!1

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

There is no N900 vs Pandora war going on, aside from Karel's personal unhappiness with Nokia not doing exactly what he wants. As far as the product readiness goes though, I have much more faith in Nokia delivering a new tablet than in Pandora folks delivering their device. Simply because Nokia has got ...mmm... a history of delivering mobile devices, including three previous tablet models.

PS: As to which one is "better" I have no idea, especially considering that neither is available yet. It probably depends on what you want from your device.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

I ordered one.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Well, they both make great boat anchors now:D

Actually, my 2000 probably would have been a better one, 'cuz it's bigger.

Nyah!:D

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Wow.. first it was 'the graphics are better' then it was 'the music is better'... and now it's 'it weighs more?' heheh

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Then the battery blows up.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Well, technically, some early pre-production runs of both devices are in the hands of developers from their respective camps. Alas, the RX-51s are inside Nokia, so only Pandoras are hitting youtube.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

I'm out, I can't stand the crazy double talk any longer. I will get an email soon, no I have 7 days to reorder, but they aren't going to tell me that, I have to go searching to find out.

They can blame banks all they want, I blame myself for being stupid enough to think this was a good idea.

I'm out, this just seems like one big scam, I wanted the device for gaming and figured it would tide me over until new nokia release. But they took forever, lost me 73$ and are now telling me to send them a check/money order/bank transfer.

NO CREDIT CARDS WILL BE ACCEPTED

I find this quote very interesting "New orders, if you want to order a Pandora (or two) from the first batch you can now place a new order via:"

I have not told them I would not reorder yet, but it appears many people have.

I have decided that I will not reorder. If it actually comes to be, I can always order one from the second batch. Additionally if I order via credit card I have recourse to get my money back. If I send the money how they request, it would be impossible for me to recover my funds should they screw me AGAIN.

ARGH!

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

At this point, I'd wait for the RX-51 and if it turns out to be disappointing (unlikely, but still, possible), you can always get the Pandora v2, which will probably have some fixes on the first version anyway... you know, like the batteries don't explode any more, or the screen doesn't flicker purple and green after a few hours of use, like the first version... I really lost all faith in the Pandora earlier this month when I read words like "prototyping" in their posts. You mean, you haven't even finished prototyping your units by January 2009? Ooooh, man.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

people were supposed to have the device before the end of the year...

when the first offer came out I decided to wait for a physical device to be available so I was set for the second batch or ebay for one of the first batch.

Now.... I just got a cheap used n810 and I will live with it.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Are we headed towards a crash-ending featuring Ferraris, like with the Gizmondo ? :-)

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

I hope so! Tech news can be so dry. A few sordid scandals always spice things up!

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

not likely, as they do not have venture capital to spend on those kinds of vehicles...

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

Worse yet, the release has been delayed since last April. ;)

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

and i wonder how many potential delays nokia has with some of their products, that they never talk about until mass production is under way...

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

[Emphasis mine]

That's exactly it. That they never talk about. The Pandora's problem is less that there were delays (they're an inexperienced bunch, it's to be expected), but that they failed utterly at managing expectations (both their own and that of their customers).

Product delays are a reality of consumer electronics, anybody familiar with the industry knows this, but promising things (over and over) that you clearly can't deliver is a bad way to do business. Whatever delays Nokia has experienced, they certainly haven't promised us anything that they haven't delivered.

Re: The Pandora Cluster Bleep
 

At least Nokia did not take my money, promising a device within a month, and then returned some of my money, saying they lost the rest on the foreign exchange markets, so it is my problem.

(And I am not a great fan of Nokia).