Why Can't They
 

If they can make Palm OS run on the N810 with Garnet VM and the Garmain IQUE ( Like the IQUE 3600 ) ran Palm OS 5.2.1 and had a built in GPS why can't they make a free map software for the N810 instead of that OVER PRICED WAYFINDER. I love my N810 but I think its a rip off that they expect us to pay for Navicore Wayfinder Software for the price if the software you can purchase a better, faster GPS. But I wanted it built in. But not to get screwed in the end with having to purchase an Over Priced Software package. I hope someone comes up with a solution to this.:mad::mad::mad:

Re: Why Can't They
 

Have you tried Maemo Mapper instead? I use this, and it works well. And free as well.

Re: Why Can't They
 

Maemo Mapper works for some things, but my problem is that its mapping portion is essentially a glorified image viewer. The maps are all tiles of raster images, so cannot be routed (the online service it can link to doesn't really count). Its functionality is similar to Wayfinder without the navigation service, except a bit faster and without the nice searchable POI database. (And a choice of maps, meaning you are bound to find a good one for your area).
Don't get me wrong, I definitely see why some people like Maemo Mapper, since there is more to these things than just routing. It does GPS tracking nicely - super helpful for OpenStreetMap stuff. Lots of other software like GPXView and OpenStreetMap2Go plugs in to it with good results.

However, it does not fill every need under the sun.
Navit uses vectors and can generate routes nicely, and there is hope for a solid version of it on the N810 :)

I think it's pretty low that WayFinder already has all the right maps and things downloaded for free, but you need a subscription fee for access to a feature that happens entirely on the client side. They rely on those subscriptions to pay for the maps downloaded by free users.
I don't know about you, but to me that sounds mighty stupid. Time for a new business model.

Re: Why Can't They
 

Do you have any ideas or alternatives for a business model?

Re: Why Can't They
 

Just buy an old version for nokia 770. I found mine on ebay for 30€ (around 40$) and it works fine :)

Re: Why Can't They
 

Nokia Maps works like this too. Many proprietary applications require a license to work with features which work on the client side. Incidentally, those applications (or parts of applications) are also the easiest to circumvent. Because the online services give the client data, it is easy to authenticate the client to make sure it has a valid license. That is why a game such as WoW is profitable, and why TomTom is profitable. The graphics and maps can be distributed on BitTorrent for all they care. What you describe is how other navigation services work too. Or worse, they don't even offer the maps for free. Officially, Google doesn't provide their maps for free either.

I've seen some compares of other navigation services and as far as I'm concerned I haven't seen an in-depth analysis why Navicore is inherently a badly priced product because for TomTom on S60 you pay about 75 EUR for only the maps, and only for your country, and without voice guided navigation or traffic information. OTOH, I paid far less that the regular price for it.

Now, their customer support sometimes simply ignores people, or don't admit problems. I think I know why: its a tiny customer support team, sponsored by Nokia (outsourced). While I've been helped well these were probably common issues. There is no room for more software development and in-depth Q&A (no second line of defense ;)) only [some] bugfixes and such. On an open source platform, [such] (severe) bugs severely piss customers off. Such as that there is no seemingless transition from one country to another. Required if you almost live on the border between 2 countries and travel a lot between them... *sigh* but, this is a proprietary platform.

Perhaps a better solution is a data plan + Maemo Mapper or one of the other alternatives (Qt Mapper, tangoGPS, etc) or you buy a (HQ) dedicated navigation device or a navigation package for your phone.

Re: Why Can't They
 

Agreed. Maemo Mapper just doesn't do what I need it to do. I don't want to depend on my cell phone --- I want to do offline routing and I want to have state-wide maps stored on my tablet. (The latter just does not work because the maps are HUGE.) Then recently, route downloads stopped working (e.g., "Generic Error"), and I have not been able to fix since. I've sometimes spent 4x the amount of time trying to get somewhere with Maemo Mapper when I could have done the same thing MUCH quicker with a printout from Google Maps. Maemo Mapper is cool when it works, but it just isn't there yet.

Wayfinder, I considered buying into it, but then I found out you have to pay every year. Not worth my money if dedicated units go for much less.

The holy grail is really somebody developing a VERY simple GPS routing app: simple one button menu system to get rid of the complex drop-down menus (e.g., I am here, and push THAT button to get there), offline routing, and downloadable maps for storage on the tablet. Essentially behaving like a dedicated GPS unit.

After all this pain of trying to make the N800 something it isn't ready to do, I finally threw in the towel --- and I bought a dedicated GPS unit.

Re: Why Can't They
 

I think with an old license for nokia 770 you don't have such problems.

Is there a way to check how long my license will be valid? I don't see anything telling me that my license will expire ....

Re: Why Can't They
 

One can also buy it for 3 years.

To see till when your license is valid open Map application. Now, unmaximize it or activate the menu. Then go to About Map -> About Map. It will say among other things your license key and the expire date.

Note, my license was unlimited (Navicore 2007), but its activated for 3 years. Whatever. In 2011 I might be dead anyway.

Re: Why Can't They
 

I believe that if one could get anything free then there is nothing wrong in getting it for free. Considering the crappiness of the gps in the n810 it is okay to crack wayfinder. I dont really understand how wayfinder charges more than 100$ for a yearly service. 100$ gives you a dedicated gps with far better routing, and gps sensing..... so no one is really going to buy that happily. And on top of that if you consider that nokia may replace it with nokia maps... there is no way you would buy the 3 year license.

That is why i have been using the libmac spoof for the gps function. Then it makes my n810 worth for the price...

Re: Why Can't They
 

i buy monthly licenses of wayfinder as required (2 so far in the last 12 months)

I dont see the point in gps for most day to day driving, but think its extremely useful in specific circumstances.

As an app developer myself I don't have a problem with paying for the license, the only thing I object to is the online activation.

I very nearly didn't get where I needed to go the other week because it would not accept the license key my missus had purchased that day because the tablet had no configured net access.

Of course, if there are viable alternative applications I will use them, but until that time the commercial developers will get a small amount from me when I need their help :)

Re: Why Can't They
 

Since you want it so bad why dont you make one and share it with with the rest of us. I'm sure it's not that hard you seem like a smart person and since you came up with the idea YOU NEED to come up with the solution. I'm sure you already know this also but verify it's GNU and make sure there are no bugs or errors with the program and the maps.

Since I volunteered you just like you volunteered others I can't wait for the hardware and software support that comes with it, please iclude your 24/7 support number so if I do have problems you I can contact you for assistance.

Thanks Again for bringing this to everyones attention and helping out the NIT community with YOUR generous offer on the free GPS software.

Re: Why Can't They
 

Hey, you're right! Game's over in 2011 :rolleyes:
But I think in 2 years navigation systems will be a little bit more advanced so it will be time for something new anyway :D

(this will help to convince my wife to allow me a new gadget :D )

Re: Why Can't They
 

There are no "free" users of Wayfinder, excpet for the free 5-day trial subscriptions. I much prefer the pre-installed subscription model with map updates to buying a separate GPS device. Most of the big GPS players are pushing HW and I prefer that someone is willing to enable the app as SW on a relatively open platform.

OSS is another option, but you can't justifiably complain because someone hasn't developed what you want for free.

Re: Why Can't They
 

It is a pity that Nokia Maps and TomTom are not available for the tablets, it is only for Symbian and Windows Mobile (yes Nokia Maps too !).
I have both on my Nokia E70 and TomTom is better than Nokia Maps, the latter is rather crappy.
BTW, Wayfinder is from Vodafone now.

Re: Why Can't They
 

Now, you must have news or haven't read the news article carefully. Last time I checked, approx 2 weeks ago, it was an offer by Vodafone; not a finalized sale.

Re: Why Can't They
 

It's easy enough to write a program for any OS, but the map data isn't free, and has to be purchased from NavTeq or another company. It's the data that costs, and nobody can or will provide that for free. It's possible to get some vector maps for free, from the census bureau, but it's not current and doesn't have road direction data, so you can be routed the wrong way down a one-way road. The cheapest and most convenient and reliable solution is a standalone mapping GPS, which you can get for less than $100 these days. I've given up on PDA mapping, because it's just too inconvenient and expensive.

Re: Why Can't They
 

My wife has a TomTom PNA (standalone) with the same screen size as the tablet. Poking around in it's files, it looks to me to be linux based for armel.
If someone could get to root on the thing, TomTom could pro'ly be recompiled for the tablet.

Re: Why Can't They
 

See OpenTom.

Includes hardware information.

Re: Why Can't They
 

I agree with bongo, don't pay an outrageous fee for a subscription license from Wayfinder. Get a cheap Navicore license off of ebay and be done with it. I got one from ebay and activated my N810 for dirt cheap, a fraction of the cost Wayfinder wants. It works awesome, even with the current release of map 2.2.8.604.

So what happens when you spoof someones MAC out of their free 5 day trial? Then you are not screwing the "MAN" but some poor end-user.

I know it'd be hard to get someone's MAC address, but it's possible. And the more people that spoof their MAC's to get free trials the more chance some legitimate user will get screwed. So don't be cheap, get a cheap Navicore license or a stand alone GPS... or pay Wayfinder.

Your theory about believing that if one could get anything free then there is nothing wrong in getting it for free makes me wonder...

Free "crack" anyone?

jbk

Re: Why Can't They
 

Make it non-fullscreen -> menu (top left button) -> About -> About Map.

Re: Why Can't They
 

FYI, providing an overlap is filed as https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3962 .

Re: Why Can't They
 

Its partly their fault because they use this pathetic licensing scheme. However, you can always select from pool of MAC addresses which are assigned to other devices such as old 3Com NICs or whatever.

Re: Why Can't They
 

iceman, if you want...pm me and ill give you instructions for cracking the software so you can get an unlimited number of free 7 day trials.