Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

...to digital tv. :p

The Senate voted to make the change on June 12 instead of February 17.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

What a joke.

It'll be 2025, nobody will be watching OTA TV anymore, and they'll still be putting the A/D transition off a couple months at a time.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

My reading of Obama is that he is willing to make meaningless small changes in how he implements things just to make those who disagree with him feel better. He did that with making a change in abortion funding on the next day instead of on a day when anti-abortion protesters were marching. The one day's difference in implementation was appreciated by the anti-abortionishts.

In this case the change is similarly meaningless, but it will make some people feel less stampeded.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

They can put it off forever as far as I am concerned. Its not the governments place to dictate what equipment we should buy to watch TV. Its the marketplaces job to determine.

Next they'll be telling me I can only have a blackberry or an iphone, just kill me.....

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

No the government was telling anyone what they have to buy. The government was freeing up public airspace and if you want to receive TV YOU need to buy what is necessary. The Govt. went out of it's way to provide coupons to consumers to buy converter boxes. They didn't need to do that.

And my god what are those millions of people to do without TV? Read like I did for the year I had no TV.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Anyone analyzing on what Obama will do and how he will do it before he has had at least 100 days in office (to be actually able to do anything) is making rather snap judgements (or is being a fool, however you want to put it).

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

sondjata is right. The marketplace controls what we watch TV on, and what shows we watch, but the Fed controls the airwaves themselves, and the move to digital does free up a LOT of public airspace on the radio waves. Especially since you can like 10 times the channels via digital in half the space you did with analog. You can stack channels, individual stations can have up to like 9 channels all on the same frequency instead of just one like before.

So overall this switch to digital is hugely beneficial. On a side note, we made the jump from analog to digital cellular some 15-20 years back and the airspace it freed up was enormous. Overall though, there's only a limited amount of available bandwidth in the EM spectrum, and anything that can be used to maximize that limited space is always welcome. :)

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Can you supply us a link to this information?

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

The reason they are making us go Digital is because several years ago when Digital TV was in the works no one wanted to make a Digital TV because there was no Digital TV service I mean why would you pay millions of dollars to broadcast DTV if no one had a TV to watch it same with why make a TV that no one is broadcasting on it. So they made it so they had to broadcas DTV so people would make TV. If they every want something like Hybrids or Electric cars to become the norm they will have todo the same thing for them. Its also kinda the reason why Wimax wont make it why put up service if no one has the device and why make the device if there is no service. Nokia tried the N810 Wimax and look how long it lasted.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

++sondjata

You're confusing two separate issues, the hardware you use (which isn't actually an issue), and the frequency band the FCC has alloted for television transmissions.

The frequencies they free up from turning off the analog transmitters could be used for a lot of neat things.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Why in the world would we ever want a **** transitional technology like hybrids to ever become the norm? This is one area that the market can decide on just fine.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Here's that link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090127/...dtv_congress_3

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

I'm not saying it should be I'm just saying that if they really want to want to do something to break out addition to Oil then they will have to do make a law for it because for every person who buys a hybrid another buys a gas sucking SUV. I for one can't talk because I own a Camry Hybrid and a gas sucking Truck.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

It's important to make a distinction between normal hybrids (which have the efficiency of an 80's import compact) and plug-in hybrids (which will actually do some good). I have to say the Chevy Volt is just about the first car I'm really excited about that was released after 1990 and the *only* USDM car I've ever been excited about that was released after 1970.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

OK. I'm utterly shocked that the General has agreed with me.:D

Not to Hijack though, but Libya has decided to go WIMAX for the country I believe. If other developing countries go this route, WIMAX could end up being huge. Just not in the US.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

And... I'm annoyed by this delay because the prospect of WIFI everywhere is extremely mouth watering (though I have privacy concerns).

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

All I'm trying to say is that to make a big change to a new technology it takes government action.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

********. What it takes for a big change to a new technology is simple economics. When it makes economic sense for most people to buy <insert new technology here>, they will.

Currently, hybrids don't make economic sense for most people.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Yes. ...and potato chips won't be as salty, either. ;)



Whether the FCC closes off analog television broadcasting or not has no bearing on WiFi access, or widespread publicly available WiFi.


The frequencies in question (for analog VHF television broadcasting) are 54.0 MHz - 72.0 MHz (analog channels 2-4), 76.0 MHz - 88.0 MHz (analog channels 5 & 6), and 174.0 MHz - 216.0 MHz (analog channels 7-13).

WiFi, in the so-called "world wide band", operates in the 2.4 GHz range (2.401 GHz - 2.473 GHz, for WiFi channels 1 thru 11 [802.11/b], for instance). I doubt any company plans on engineering any new WiFi equipment to operate in the former analog VHF television range, once it has been vacated by the television broadcasters.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

First off, all types of generalisations are bad :-) So, I argue that in some cases, government regulation is good thing, within bounds, reason, etc, etc.

Where there is a _shared_ resource, it is usually a good idea to defer regulation thereof to a third party to govern access (the Government) which in an ideal world is appointed by, and acts int the best interest of, the collective owners of the resource.

In the Real World, this third party (or their agents) are usually in the pockets of whoever has money, but that's a technicality.

Now, in the case of spectrum, let's compare the US and Canada to The Rest Of The World. One has GSM, the other has CDMA, GSM, and probably still some TDMA here and there. In one, users can generally freely buy whatever device they like as long as it conforms to the Government standard, in the other, you have to use whatever your carrier chooses you can have. Yes, you can freely choose carriers, but this is also the case in the more developed parts of The Rest.

Cars are generally not a shared resource (though the air we breathe and the roads we drive on are) so the argument is less relevant for regulation. If taxation for things that affect the shared resource are increased, the market will encourage individuals to choose differently. If individuals can save on taxes by choosing a lower emission vehicle, the market should find the most efficient way to provide this to consumers - and is not constrained to any particular technology choice by decree. Bring on the plug-ins and high-efficiency diesels!

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

all of my stations have already switched to digital and it is great ota and cable company also sends the locals down every wire unencrypted too.

i live in the test market and we made the switch in october. i think america is ready, no big effin deal. there are only like 8% getting signal ota so this wont even affect 92 % of the people. the stations though are having more of a hard time getting equipment up.

when you all do switch i highly recommend the hdhomerun from silicondust if you want tv on your network.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Quipper8 - What have people in your area been using as a VCR replacement for OTA timed recording of favorite shows?

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

i dont know that they have found anyone doing that anymore. just kidding :)

with a converter box nothing really changes

see here

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts...erbox_vcr.html

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Oh, I see what you are after; a vcr that can change the channel on the tuner on the converter box. Not sure if any can or ever will.

I guess that 1% group is going to be pissed :eek: Sorry you are in it.

Seriously though, you are on this forum so you probably bought around a $300 internet tablet and are obviously not a luddite; what do you have against buying some type of DVR that has a digital tuner?

OR

You could get some kind of IR thingy setup, some vcrs used to come with those to control cable boxes and maybe you can get it to work

OR

according to some, the echostar tr40 converter box MIGHT have this capability(timed channel changing)

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Yeah, but the gov gave the TV stations frequency spectrum for free to switch to digital, and want to get it back. Ending analog and moving the digital channels to the old analog frequencies does that. Unless the TV stations want to pay for that additional spectrum that they are taking up. (Yeah, right. Besides, it is too late, the spectrum has already been auctioned off. The new owners will have to wait four more months to get their hands on it.)

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Not quite right, since ASTC (read: digital broadcast) supports a maximum of only 6 standard definition channels, and no HDTV, or some mix of HDTV and SDTV channels not to exceed 19Mbit data rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_Standards
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTV_tra..._United_States

Actually, digital doesn't free up any spectrum, since DTV still consumes the same 6Mhz of bandwidth that the old analog transmissions did. What frees up spectrum is turning off the analog channels (since broadcasters have been broadcasting on a digital channel and analog channel for the past few years in many markets (read: cities). And of course whacking off channels 52 thru 69 (read: the 700 Mhz band) will free up even more spectrum. I am old, and remember when the UHF band went up to channel 83! Over the years, at the behest of commercial interests, the FCC has given away those channels (to things like 800 Mhz cell phones).

DTV looks great if you can get it. But my experience, is that it just doesn't have the range (read: distance) that analog TV does, which is a problem if you don't live near a big city :(

Craig...

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

I've made the switch...
I had to wait for Tivo to tell us which converter boxes would work with my series 2.

The biggest downside so far is no longer being able to watch 1 channel while tivo'ng another. Might just have to get a 2nd box.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Actually, that problem is due to be resolved in the near future. The primary reason DTV has such a pathetic signal strength right now is the rule of levels the FCC follows. In other words, when switching spectrums, a transmitting station is given a license for the lowest allowable signal strength in that category. In the case of DTV, (or TV in general), the current strength is 20,000 watts.

Once it's proven that the newly assigned frequency does not create problems with the local wireless communications networks, most especially emergency channels, or other services and equipment in the area, then the station is allowed to raise it's power to the next tier, which is 50,000 watts. Once they complete the trail time at that power, they're allowed to go back up to 100,000 watts, assuming they already had that as their maximum power. If they had a higher output, which is unlikely, they'll stay at 100,000 until they pass testing at that tier, which of course then means the cycle repeats itself again. :)

It was said that most stations of 50,000 watts or higher would be allowed to move up to 50,000 watts very soon, so you should start seeing some of the harder to get stations suddenly become easier to get.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

I didn't ever know what level they were broadcasting at, but I can say that once they turned analog off here all stations came in fine digitally whereas before I was tweaking and pointing antenna and following avs forum threads on antenna types, etc.

I am about 30 miles from most of my stations towers

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Well, that's a big part of the issue, but it's also a fact that digital signals can be received with little degradation to a certain strength (depending on the receiver), but then reception drops off much more sharply. So if you're way out there, you might get pretty bad analog reception, but still put up with it, and then get no usable reception on digital at the same broadcast power.

Of course, the solution -- assuming the station is broadcasting digital at full power, and you still can't get it -- is to get a better antenna, which would have benefited your analog reception too. But honestly, I think my tendency would be to replace TV with internet, rather than spend more on an antenna...

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

My Opinion: If we switch now, there will be a week of mass panic, and then everyone will forget about it and say "Oh, mah TV is looking much better!"

Personally I don't even watch TV. With a dual enrollment in college and high school, the only free time I get is past 11:00 PM. I only watch "Prime Time" shows online...

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

u people watch/own tv!? are u serious?

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Looks like America *IS* ready for change...
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/d...pass-in-house/
<q>
In an absolutely shocking move, the United States House of Representatives has failed to pass the digital TV transition delay bill that was all but certain to fly through just days ago. The bill needed two-thirds of the votes of the House under "special rules adopted for the vote," and reportedly, the vote was just 258 to 168 in favor of changing the date.

Developing...
</q>

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

That's good to hear!

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

Good. Let's get this over with.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

That may help. I live about 75 miles from the PBS station transmitter I would like to watch after 17 Feb. I do have an external antenna pointed in the direction of the transmitter.

As a former broadcast engineer, I am familiar with coverage contours, and I know I am currently outside of the PBS station's. Of course, that doesn't mean I don't want to watch it.

I can receive closer DTV transmissions, and I have to agree with others, the picture looks fantastic!

Craig...

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

I use WIFI in the most general sense of the word and not the specific A/B/G/N implementations that we currently use.

Re: Obama declares America not ready for change...
 

the best antenna I came up with is the u75r from radioshack, note though that it is UHF only(which all of my stations are and most will be). You can check antennaweb to see if your digital stations are uhf or vhf