Abiword, Gnumeric for ITOS 2006
 

Does somebody know what actually is the problem why these two programs don't get ported to ITOS 2006?

I need them...

Badly...

I am waiting for the port of Gnumeric, and since Etrunko started coding for the 770 again, my fingers are crossed...
Don't know anything about abiword

This unfavourable Gnumeric situation simply prevents my OS-2006 upgrade. Well - to be honest - I have become sudoku addictive too - so, I have desperately waited for the GPE-Sudoku's porting to 2006.
In addition to the AbiWord situation I think that it's lack of MS-Word-.doc-format is very harmful too, because the format is the most used in text processing. It's like having a nice motorcar without gearbox.

I think this lack of OS-2006 "extra" programs for end/standard users is becoming serious. BTW ,is it true that the 2005/2006 porting is a relatively easy procedure, meaning the developer not standard user?
But who's to blame: Nokia? Maemo-org? developers in question?

OK, I can understand the delay with Gnumeric, but Abiword? Heck, if I but knew how to spell programink, I'd give it a stab myself.

The lack of a DOC format is a hindrance, but -- as I explained in another post -- nothing that cannot be overcome by a simple USB memory stick and portable Abiword (see the thread "Make 770 Self-Reliant: Flash OS from 770" in the "2006 OS" forum). With a Google mailaccount I was even able to print documents I had composed on the 770 from any Windows PC that had a) a USB port, b) a printer attached and c) Internet access.

Portable Abiword can be found here:

http://portableapps.com/apps/office/...rtable_abiword

Abiword/Gnumeric
 

:) I am also in desparate need of these applications. I admit that MS-Word format support would be extremely helpful, but having them in any form would be VERY helpful. Thanks!

Have some patience!
 

C'mon folks! These are applications you are getting for free on an operating system platform that has been out for a little over a month! Nokia doesn't create these applications. Real developers do in their spare time. The developers are not paid or compensated at all.

Yet you are demanding that they release their gifts on your schedule. By using phrases like "what actually is the problem why these two programs don't get ported to ITOS 2006" and "who's to blame: ... developers in question?" you are likely to actually to delay a release rather than speed it along.

Try some encouragement and have some patience.

-F

Y'know what I think would be nice? If MS used open doc standards and got rid of their proprietary formats. (There's been way too little open source preachiness lately, figured I'd stir some up, heh!)

As for Soduku, it was ported a long time ago. It was never added to the maemo app wiki and I found it by googling [".armel" "sodoku"]
I can't find it for the life of me now.

I did however take the liberty of gmailing it to myself. I'll attach it now.

:)

That is a crappy argument and actually harmful to Open Source. That applications like Abiword or Gnumeric are free of charge, was a choice of the developers, not a demand of the users. This choice by no means gives those developers some special status or absolves them from justified nagging from users (yes, I'm perfectly aware that I'm nagging; there's nothing else I can do).

Point is: both Abiword and Gnumeric were released very shortly after the release of the Nokia 770 and now, after the release of ITOS 2006, they seem to have disappeared without any explanation or excuse. This is not very nice behaviour towards users, and users of open software are by no means different from users of closed software.

What your remark does, is basically make people think twice about adopting open software. You see, I don't choose open source because it doesn't cost me money, and if open source implies -- as you state -- that I shut up and be quietly grateful for whatever I get, then I'd rather pay someone money to get what I want, whatever the state of the sources.

"Regular" Abiword supports the ODP format of OpenOffice.org, which is arguably the most open document format on the "market" to date.

On another note, early on in the 770's history, I seem to remember a rumour that Nokia was going to release their own version of a wordprocessor for the 770, but I haven't heard from that since.

Oh yeah, I don't like Sudoku: I'm too stupid to solve the puzzles.

Asking, bothering, nagging is all good. Demanding something for nothing is not.

I believe the point is that both Abiword and Gnumeric were released for ITOS 2005. While it may not be "nice" of them not to continue support, the authors can do what they want with the software. There is no implied contract for upgrades or new versions or even bug fixes. Read the license agreements.

The benefit of open software is community and, through that community, quality. That community is fostered by sharing of source, comments, discussion, and expertise. That community is broken down by those who demand things from the developers. If people don't like that premise, then they should pay money to someone they can yell at to get what they want.

And if you can't contribute to that community, then -- yeah -- you should shut up and be grateful for whatever you get.

-F

I understand what you mean Karel, and do not really disagree - but the flaw in your reasoning, as applied to the 770 specifically vs OSS in general, is that I don't feel you have any such choice ATM (ie spending money instead). So maybe frethop's approach is more effective after all :-)

Thanks for the sudoku!
I was missing that.

ODT format worked excellent with ABI, and if I recall correctly, word douments saved in the .rtf extension format worked on every word processor, plus, if you open a .rtf on word, it would save it that way later on.

This helped me; when I had students grab an e-worksheet off my site, it would open as an .rtf, so even if they had that damn-awful "works" or whatever, could check out their uploaded answers on ABI w/ the 770.

wonder how difficult a 2006 port might actually be...

DCARTER

DCARTER

Quite apart from Abiword and Gnumeric (which are fairly mature applications), can anyone recommend a simple GUI based text editor?

is anything on the horizon?

I end up putting all my notes on the gpe to do list.

I happen to like Xournal and MaemoPad+

I realize I'm not going to win the popularity vote in this thread, but I'm standing firm: most people seem to confuse opens source with public domain, and among "most people" I count the developers of open source projects as well.

Just take a look at properly managed open source projects like Ubuntu or Openoffice.org: they don't consider their users a mild nuisance, nor are they in the assumption that they're releasing their software as a gesture of goodwill to the community.

And excuse me, but telling someone that, if they can't contribute, they should shut up and be grateful, is just plainly despicable.

But you are correct in that the 770, like the Zaurus, is a special kind of open source target: it is therefore my opinion that, if the community doesn't grow, or if commercial developers don't chime in quickly, more and more users will come to the conclusion that "shutting up and being grateful" might be a good attitude for those who see the 770 as the geek's version of a game console, but not for those of us who envisioned it as a tool with which to get stuff done.

Here's another thing for the people at Nokia to contemplate: if you make a cheapish tablettoid and arrange for free software to be available for it, your prospective user base hasn't really invested much and therefore bailing out of your platform will not cost them much either. So my nagging here, although directed at developers, is actually more meant for the Nokia crowd.

I for one would be happy to pay a reasonable amount for a working word processor and spreadsheet for the 770. I echo the sentiment that the fact that there is a working application is much more important than the fact that it is free. Could I port it myself? Probably, if I took the time to learn. The point is that I don't currently have the time. So, if money is the issue, I am willing to contribute a reasonable amount. . .

Hair! Hair! :D

As an example: Textmaker and Planmaker for the Wince platform are sold as a bundle for EUR 69.95. Since Softmaker doesn't want to port its software to the 770 platform, I'm more than willing to pay that amount for fully functional versions of Abiword or Gnumeric -- or any other combination of wordprocessor and spreadsheet for that matter. Hancom, are you listening?

That is true, but as you emphasise, those are managed projects, which also implies funded and supported by the big guns. We're not in the enthusiast crowd anymore. However, even those wouldn't bring you a maemo version of OpenOffice (if that made any sense) : you'd still need the personally motivated rogue hacker for that to happen...

I agree. My remark was more tongue-and-cheek than argumentative.

...and the two, in turn, are of two kinds again. The Zaurus is clearly an accidental OSS hacker target : Sharp designed it as a closed platform, tailored for the japanese domestic market. They never sold it abroad, or claimed it was good for anything else than its intended use (a glorified dictionary, basically). The fact that hackers jumped through hoops to lay their hands on one because it was the first Linux PDA, and a good one, is incidental, and its shortcomings in this regard perceived by said hackers cannot be blamed on Sharp. Mostly.

Nokia's attitude with the 770 is more ambiguous. They do market the thing globally (if discreetly), but as an online device that does well all that phones and PDAs do badly, but none of what they do well. Sort of.
Yet the choice of Linux, the openness of maemo, the progress made with ITOS2006 (whereas the Sharp OS has stagnated for years, which makes sense for an embedded device)... all that cannot be innocent of hope that third parties will broaden the possible uses way beyond that. But that hope stays stubbornly unsaid.

I think that is 100% true. But have you thought that your remark is true, first and foremost, of Nokia themselves ? This situation reeks of internal cacophony. On the one side, a visionary and creative team that invents something sexy, but totally outside the corporate core business and competencies (phones and Symbian OS come to mind :-). On the other side, entrenched corporate factions dragging their feet (like customer relationships and repair centers), with a marketing dept. that clearly doesn't understand any of it, and/or doesn't want to. In the middle, some intrigued top management that decides to give it a go, just for kicks : hey, if it's a runaway success there'll be time to pour resources in a new market segment ; if it flops, nothing much lost, it was just a skunkworks project anyway...
I am furiously reminded of the Renault Twingo scenario in the first case, and of the BMW C1 scooter in the other. I personally do hope there will be an Internet Tablet dynasty...

Well, here's my thing. Back when I was 15/16 (I'm 27 now) I spent a lot of Saturday mornings screwing with Slackware Linux in my basement. That's the *only* thing saving me on the 770 right now. While I disagree that a monkey should be able to use it out of the box, I don't think a couple of months of Linux experience should be necessary. The 'everything must be simple enough my dog can use it' crowd probably forgets the amount of time it took them to become mildly proficient in Windows.

Emphasis is being placed on just getting something working rather than polishing it for use. In the same turn, most of these devs have day jobs just like everybody else. Most of them are proficient at programming because this is what their day job consists of. You couldn't pay me to sit down and crank out some SQL outside of work. I barely want to sit in front of a computer for pleasure by the time I get home.

Basically, to turn my pointless rant into a point: Porting/writing apps takes a lot of time and even if someone was willing to spend an hour a day on it, that could still add up to months. Bounties are good incentive and count as action on the part of people who don't know how to code... but I think the main thing people can do is be understanding. Try the OSS developer test. Sit in front of a PC doing nothing for an hour a night for an entire week. Now ya know how they probably feel.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't want OpenOffice for the 770; it's too big and a lot of its features are overkill for the platform. The ideal WP for the 770 IMHO would be Textmaker, but Softmaker can't be bothered.

But how about a port of (as I hinted at in another post) Hancom Mobile Office? If it runs on the Zaurus, it should be easily portable to the 770, right? Of course, I haven't the slightest idea if Hancom are still around; their website is under reconstruction and all the old links to Mobile Office are dead.

And my snipe wasn't addressed at you. Sorry.

Good analysis.

I think it must be clear by now for even the most clueless Nokia manager, that the 770 is not perceived by the users as what Nokia originally intended it to be. The Nokia product description declared it a wireless Internet browser, but the user base is treating it as a universal "thinnish" client ("thinnish", because it does have some onboard storage and a reasonably capable processor).

This change of perception has gone beyond the recuperative capabilities of any marketing department.

I'm thinking of another possible scenario: Nokia have seen how successfull Linux smartphones are becoming on the Chinese market, and how these Linphones take device control back from the network operator to the device manufacturer. Nokia themselves are still committed to Symbian, but it just might be possible that the 770 is, amongst other things, a testing of the Linux waters for future phones.

However, we're clearly veering wildly away from my original question, so back to the important issues:

WHERE THE F**K ARE ABIWORD AND GNUMERIC FOR ITOS 2006???? :D

About Hancom: nevermind, it appears to be based on QT, which, I think, on the 770 equates to installing large libraries and slow performance.

Feel free to correct me...

I'd like to correct that, because the story of the Zaurus sheds and interesting light on the 770. The original, pda style zaurus was sold in the US and in Germany (I have one with a german keyboard) to the general public. The later, clamshell, mini-laptop style Zaurus were indeed only sold in Japan as a glorified dictionary, but another version, also pda-style, was sold in the US, mainly as a device to run java corporate applications.

The interesting part of the story is that Sharp tried to sell their device to the general public, but apparently did not sell enough of it. It seems that they had lots of problems supporting what they sold it for: a pda that would synchronize to a windows platform.

Jerome, you are totally right. My post was getting fat, so I oversimplified :-)

With the early "brick" models (the 5000 and 5500) Sharp made a half-hearted attempt at building an outside community. They even had a developer program with discounted units in Europe (I guess Nokia copied this for the 770 :-), and a "developer" site - that went down after a while with all its content, creating resentment (which is B.a.d.). The 6000 (with BT and/or Wifi, thus clearly for the non-japanese market) was another timid attempt at the corporate "vertical" niche, in the US. The heart of the platform (Qtopia) was closed from the start anyway.

I myself got into the game in the "clamshell" period after that, so I only knew Sharp as a maker of potentially fantastic hardware, albeit black-market expensive and hard to procure, and totally absent on the systems/software front. Progress on that side was left to freelancers such a Cacko, pdaXrom, GPE and others. Typical OSS fragmentation. When last I checked on ZUG they were still trying.

Recently I was reminded how bad things can get when I tried to use my "old" 760 with my new 54g Wifi AP secured with WPA. I ended up pairing it in ad-hoc mode with the tablet...

Nokia's approach with the 770 up to now, and the ensuing dynamics, is in a totally different league, even if it's never as fast and furious as we all would like. I just hope Ari's team doesn't fall victim to corporate logic and is given time to prove their point. I would really like to see the 880 and 990 and whatnot... just as I'd love to be riding a BMW C2 or C3 instead of a dinosaur :-)

PS: Karel, sorry for hijacking your thread :-)

Thanks, you saved me some tedious quoting of that previous big post :-)

You are right. The Zaurus GUI (Qtopia) is built on a scaled-down version of Trolltech's Qt graphic library, which is the foundation of the desktop environment KDE. While Nokia's is built on a scaled-down version of GTK, which is the low-level roots of desktop Gnome. It is hard to be further apart in the Linux world -- not quite as bad as running a Windows app on an Intel Mac, but still.

So porting the Hancom apps to run properly on the tablet would be quite some task (not to mention proper Hildon integration such as menus, full screen, task bar, hardware keys...). And I'd rather not think of running it 'as is' on a thick cushion of compatibility libs, even if such existed :-)

I'll stab at this one more time. Maybe I can say what I wanted to say the first time.

I said this, so I'll explain it. I consider lots of things contributions: coding, commenting, discussing, feedback, and feature requests are among them. However, this line, which got me started on this thread is not any of the above:

It's not contributive; it's just whining. Worse: it's complaining and rather accusatory. My point: if this is how you are going to contribute, then just be quiet. It's not helping.

I'm an open source developer. I write open source contributions on several different platforms. For a certain app I have written, it's been almost 2 months since the last release. I just can't get the time to put the features into it I want. If someone were to ask me what my problem is in cranking out that next version, I would say what I said above: just be quiet, you are not helping.

I'm grateful to all those who have contributed to the software collection for the 770. I use Maemo Mapper all the time! But I'm not kidding myself: if gnuite were to stop working on it, I'd have to be happy with the current version and be quiet, because I'm not a Bluetooth programmer. gnuite has no obligation to me.

I'll restate my original point. Be encouraging and have some patience. Hopefully, the software you want will be here. ...Hopefully...

-F

How can I help if I don't know what the problem is? The question I asked was just that: a request for information.

I'm not a programmer, I barely know how to start up a Linux system and I'm certain that there isn't much I can do to help the Abiword port. However, up until now I have aways shared with this community whatever info or tricks I had come up with that might be helpful in running a 770. It may not be groundbreaking stuff, but if I can help someone getting their Abiword documents exported and printed from the 770 with minimal fuss, that should count for something?

So I reiterate my question: I really would like to know what is holding up the port of Abiword to ITOS 2006? If it's something programmy, I'm sure I can't help. If, OTOH, the problem is that a developer needs money for food, I am prepared to Paypal any reasonable amount of moolah. If he needs a peptalk, I'll call him up and pep him to smithereens. If he needs a hug... well, someone else can do that perhaps.

Ooh! Ooh! I'll do it! ... so long as they don't check for their wallet afterward.

(Then again it'd probably be full of movie rental memberships and an expired condom) :rolleyes:

It's not nice to imply that all programmers are geeks that cannot get laid.

It may be true, but it's not nice... :D

I'm a SQL developer and I've got no problems :) Can't say the same about 90% of the others I've encountered in the field :D

(I will say this though, anyone I've encountered throughout dealing with the 770 has been awesome. Going back to when I first started screwing around with Slackware, everyone now has been *so* helpful with explaining things, documenting, etc).

http://etrunko.blogspot.com/2006/08/...ost-there.html

Jay Etrunko!

I am the lowest of the lowest, not worthy to make a backup copy of his source code.

...

So, where are those Abiword wankers now, eh? ;)

I so wanted to post the comment:

"Masturbate and see double! "Masturbate and see double!"

... but refrained. :) Gnumeric is looking *really* slick. The original version worked but the menu system wasn't hildonized and it bombed out a lot. Now ya know what he was spending his time doing, the interface looked slick as hell. He did a fantastic job!

Well, as long as you refrained...

The screenshots of Hildonized Gnumeric are "da bom"! (I also suck at slang)

Some good news for you Karel, hot off the maemo-users list :

> also would like to know if someone has started to work on Abiword
> > for OS2006. I could help if needed.

I have; there was a problem with the updated cs3.2 C++ compiler
initially, but I finally got the CVS head building just before I went on
holiday, for now still using the HildonApp api. Once I get the debian
repo set up for it, there could be at least an unstable package available.
Tomas

Unstable's fine by me!

Dang, just when I had my first poll all set up an' stuff.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!

We have Gnumeric, Etrunko did it! Look at planet.maemo.org or at his blog! Thx man!

It's already installed!

unable to install gnumeric. packages missing:
libglade2-0
libosso-email-smim

where can i find them?

plug-ins?
 

I installed gnumeric fine, and it looks good except for a rhs popup menu which is mostly off the screen (has chart in it).

Could not install the plug-in because some other thing was missing (python?). What are the plug-ins for? and where do I get the missing stuff?

I'm also having trouble installing gnumeric. Could someone post an instruction for installation? TIA.