Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Here you have a tricky question (i think).

If next maemo is totally open source and next tablet is going to have HSPA data... does it means that some hacker could use HSPA data chip to put calls on it?

Is HSPA clear enough so you can code a driver against the HSPA data chip that tells the network you are a phone?

Just curiosity.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Any hacker determined enough could easily do that. The question remains, does anyone actually want it bad enough. If the answer's no, then nobody will. And I'm gonna lean towards nobody doing it, or if anyone does, it'll be a tiny group of DIY's who just want the honor of saying they did.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Next Maemo is not totally open source, but nothing's bulletproof, and I don't think they'll even be specifically trying to stop us from adding that until it happens.

That said, Raiden's right, it's unlikely to happen without substantial help from Nokia; OTOH, the Fremantle releases seem to have some measure of phone support included -- whether that means the "N900" (RX-51) will be a phone, will be a few tweaks away from being a phone, or will have no phone support at all, we can't say at this point. What it does mean the platform is intended to support phone-capable models at some point. The likelihood of phone calls on the RX-51 varies strongly with the applicability (and quality, quantity, etc.) of any phone support from Nokia.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Depends on your definition of easy. If just one of the necessary bga pin/balls is not soldered, it will be practically impossible. Take the NSLU2 for example - in theory it could have two ethernet ports (the chipsets supports has two ports, the drivers could be hacked), but the 'motherboard' is missing the leads, so no extra port. Same here, if they physically don't connect it to the audio mixer, that's it.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Do you really mean to say "a phone" or do you mean merely "voice capability" or what do you mean (exactly)? I hate to be one of those sly rats that can only provide innuendo, but I also hate to see an important thread go in entirely the wrong direction...

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

To me, HSPA VoIP = Phone. What's there to hack? The problem is not whether you can get your HSPA chip to serve you some proprietary 3G format (rather than TCP/IP), but whether you can use VoIP without it being blocked / throttled by your jealous telco ISP and without incurring extra data charges because you go over your limit...

Trying to get a data HSPA chip to act like a voice chip seems as silly as converting your 4WD off-road vehicle to run on railway lines. Why would you lock yourself into that narrow little track when you've got something that can take you anywhere?

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

having gsm baseband chip doesnt mean access to it's stack interally.
Look at motorola's phones or even openmoko project.
Even detailed datasheets of baseband chips are avaliable only for manufacturers that are good enough to sign nda with them.
So at least You'll gain access via some AT+ specific limited interface - if audio is routed then Yes - You can set up a voice call succesfully no matter the OS.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Definitely. And that's why (comparatively) nobody will be hacking voice calls... unless Nokia does give us most of the code. After, who wouldn't put railway axles under their truck and take it for a spin, if they had all the parts sitting in their garage and nothing else to do one weekend?

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Depends on where you live (and your provider), I guess - especially with regard to incoming calls. Keeping your existing number can prove to be tricky, and you cannot apply local rates, which might (or might not) actually be less than voip rates. All this on the assumption your voip traffic doesn't get filtered, and the bandwidth/3G coverage and gateway quality is good. So not really a foolproof solution for everybody :) :(

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

In industry nomenclature, phone = GSM (CDMA, etc) telephony network interoperability. But to users like you and me, VoIP is acceptable equivalent. Not only no hack required, VoIP makes it easier to integrate voice with other apps on single mobile device.

Thank you for bringing the thread back on track.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Right. It will be much easier to keep your existing number with a data HSPA chip you've hacked to do voice... :D

... I agree that VoIP is still not "there" yet in terms of general market readiness for Jane Consumer. I was just commenting on the bizarre nature of this thread's proposed hack.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

The hacking part was the idea of the OP, and I don't think it's a viable option either (other than the 'I did it !' factor). The one exception is if the mobile section is 'transplanted' from an existing Nokia handset, with all the necessary hardware for 'regular' phone calls (GSM, etc) in place, just the stack missing (for whatever reason, a possible retrofit for Harmattan, a 'backup' plan if the other Nseries don't sell well enough, __insert favourite maemo conspiracy theory here__). The chances for that are, of course worse than astronomical. Of course, HSPA VoIP is kindasorta a phone (and will be used by many when RX-51 comes out), but then you could argue that the N810 WiMAX was already a phone, too - sort of...

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Look through bluez:audio/telephony-maemo.c from the Fremantle pre-alpha SDKs. There're some interesting API capabilities in there:

• Inbound calls
• Conference calling
• Putting callers on hold

These strongly indicate that some form of "normal" voice-phone capability will be built-in. Certainly there's an API for it.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Looks interesting, though what is bluez involvement with a phone api?

Rich

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Those provising HSPA are certain to cap it off. Unlimited could mean only a few GB. Doesn't sound like you'll be making many VOIP calls over your HSPA. I can almost guarantee that the new NIT WILL be a phone. Figuring that buying the N8x0 tablets is limited to online and Nokia stores, I'd guess they've had a difficult time selling them to more than just a small group of tablet enthusiasts.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

What makes you think it's a phone? Every statement I've read from Nokia has mentioned that there is data only cellular connectivity in the Maemo 5 lead device.

Depending on the codec, you could make several VoIP calls even for 1 GB/month. G.711 for instance (64 Kbps) gives about 34 hours of talk time per GB by my calcs. That's a ROM estimate.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

quick guess, bluetooth handsfree...

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

If what you say is true then cellular providers would be losing by giving people the ability to voice over their data network. If cingular is offering "unlimited" data for $60 and you can make clear VOIP calls on it then you've got a better deal than every one of their voice customers.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

well, there is capacity (# calls/GB), and ability. There is enough capacity to make a significant amount of VoIP calls. Ability is dictated by any throttling or port blocking that the telcos smash you with.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Maybe they'll allow the voip use and stiff you with overages and hidden contract fees. One way or another they're going to get theirs.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Citation needed. The only statement related to data vs. voice in a Maemo 5 device was from Ari Jaaksi at OSiM World in September 2008:

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

I was basing my comment on Quim's announcement of the maemo5 SDK.


I admit that he did not rule out voice, but only announcing data connectivity leads one to assume...

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

It leads some to assume that Nokia must be concealing complete phone functionality at this point, to increase the shock and awe when this device is unleashed on an unsuspecting blagosphere.

Me, I assume that it won't have voice, and that all the indications in the SDK releases merely imply that some later device will be a phone -- guess I'd rather be shocked and awed than disappointed.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

I, for one, hope the lead device is not a phone. I hope they do it "backwards" and release their "iPod Touch" before their "iPhone".

But I'm pretty sure that in this, like every other part of my existence, I am in a tiny minority here. I've gotten used to living in that hair-thin slice of the pie chart labeled "other".

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

heh, allow me to join you on that slice...

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Again, it will serve everyone well if the differences between "voice" and "complete phone functionality" are kept in mind.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

a lot of USB HSDPA modems also only have data connections (SMS and GPRS/UMTS data with HS(D)PA and sometimes Edge).

But I was under the impression that devices with cellular transmitters/receivers are required to be complient with a lot more regulations.
The fact that nothing about a new device has been leaked makes me suspect that a new tablet isn't as close as I would hope. (I fear that it will be June at the earliest).
I think that that is a shame because my N800 is now over 2 years old, and it would love to buy an updated version with a faster processor (my biggest problem with the device, it is rather slow compared to modern smartphones like iphone or Xperia X1) .

I don't care if the device will have dedicated GSM voice, voip would also be fine by me (worked perfectly on the N800, much better than voip on my N95).

Things that I would like to see in the new tablet: Oled screen, FM receiver, FM transmitter, DVB-T receiver, IR transmitter for electronics.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

Could this be the next tablet? Pictures won't be available Aug. 16th

FCC link

The thing that made me think of the tablets is it shows a little slider like the one that holds the internal memory card in the N800.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

I don't think so.

-The product code doesn't resemble a tablet code.
-it seems very small for a tablet (comparing the sim card size)
-it is made in China. Nokia normally doesn't produce the High-end models for US and European markets in China.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

maybe the next tablet you're all hoping for is actually the upcoming asus eee touch screen :D

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

This will be great, just like the Raon Everun GSM HSPDA device. I hope it happens.

Rumours suggest that Maemo 5 beta or some revision, will support it. Its in preperation for Maemo being the OS of nokias range of smartphones and the arrival of Nautilus in 2010/2011.

Re: Can we say that N900 is for sure going to be a Phone?
 

I think it's new 5800 (5830?)