[canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

I have already comented on the decision and erased my last.fm account.

R.I.P. Last.fm, the music industry got you too. Unfortunately for them is the fact that it's only one more reason to go for illegal sources.

This will probably stop vegalume and the canola last.fm plugin from working, even if the nit's are not mobile phones.

http://www.last.fm/group/Last.fm+Web...21604/_/517212

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

IIRC, they already stated that the N8x0s are not affected, which is logical, because they're small computers rather than mobile phones.

it will be very interesting though how they define "mobile phone" with regard to the new maemo5-device. from what we know, it will have "cellular data connectivity" (that's the criterion they use). so: what about netbooks with built-in cellular data units? what about notebooks and desktop PCs with HSDPA-connectivity?
more important: what about clients that were written for the (GNU/linux-)desktop and are ported to a HSDPA-enabled maemo-version? or to openmoko?

the whole move is absurd. it seems they didn't think much about it.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Just like the Hulu Boxee move. These industry people are totally clueless.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Well clueless as in: will do anything to cling to the old business models.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

From the comment about their licensing partners its probably something to do with streaming licensed music over cellular data networks which is being tied down by legalese. It makes sense, a lot of carriers have some kind of music store or service, there is probably a lot of lobbying dollars behind this.

Quote:

Q: What defines a "mobile phone" in this case? What about, say, a Nokia N810, which is an Internet tablet/MID, NOT A PHONE. Would this be barred from using the API in an application such as Vagalume to stream music? What about dedicated internet radios? These are all "portable" devices that are not phones, but are certainly mobile.

A :The N810 doesn't connect to a cellular data network, so it's not a phone.

Q: And, as an aside - what is the rationale for the "no mobile phones" rule?

A: It's a restriction imposed by some of our music licensing partners, and not by us.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

The obvious problem with that answer is that the N8xx can in fact be used with a cellular connection. Which goes right back to the Netbooks with cellular 'net access. Same thing.

Just like the Hulu-Boxee thing. They wan't to dictate how you watch/listen to material. Not sitting in front of your laptop. Broken license. using the cellular network access (which you paid for) to stream music rather than WIFI (which you also paid for) broken license.

Why? because some d-wad at some cellular company thought: Hey we already rake our customers over the coals for phone "service" , Data plans, and tethering charges, why aren't we getting paid for the content that flows over those connections too!

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Well this is easy for me. If either Vagalume or LastFMProxy (for my Roku Soundbridge) cease to work, I cease to scrobble as it holds no value for me anymore. Too bad for me and Last.fm.

Frank

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Also don't forget the small line which says...
Even if the tablets are not classed as mobiles, that will probably kill Canola and Vagalume off for most people.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

It's even worse: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/25/lastfm_paywall/

Last.fm is apparently shifting to a paid-subscription-only service for most countries.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

It would really suck if Vagalume and Canola get the rug pulled out from under them. 95% of my music-listening time is done through Vagalume on my N800, so if that stopped working, I'd be pretty disappointed. Well, I guess there is always Last.FM radio...

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

True, but don't tell them.. pretend we use wi-fi for all our networking all the time. (Anyway that's our preference and what we wish for, so it must be what matters. :D)

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

hm, e.g. my previous operator had an offer that for 10 euro or so per month you get interactive radio from a library with ratings and so on. guess how sad will they be because last.fm will stop working on mobiles.

the limitation, imho, is about phones because there's still outrageous money to be made there. they don't care about cellular data. they care about the market where 160 chars cost 0.07€, a 30 second ringtone costs 1€ and 10 mb traffic costs 2€. proof is, that here for example internet is much cheaper over a 3g modem than on a phone.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Actually, that's not correct. I've been doing some research on this as things have been coming to the surface and developing and it turns out that this is actually a well laid out plan by the RIAA and MPAA to milk the existing system as long as possible by making it as difficult as possible for the newer systems to get off the ground and take hold.

There are two primary reasons for this. 1) They want to milk existing CD sales as much as possible, and 2) they want time to get new income and revenue streams in place before finally giving in and allowing the new systems to fully take hold.

So in a way, they're just using this as an excuse to stall as long as possible while they change over their business model. Part of the slowness of the changeover is their large number of contracts. As each contract comes up for renewal, they're going to change them and go after every other possible revenue stream the artists have, even areas (such as concerts) that the music bosses couldn't touch before. So in short, the music industry will become what we want it to be, music will finally be freed, but artists will still get screwed over by the media giants nickle and diming them to death.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Raiden: You'll note I added a clarification of my "they're clueless" point: A piece from a blog post I did on the Hulu-Boxee thing:

"See I'm old enough to remember life before cable. A time when Cable was for HBO and Showtime and little else. I saw how Cable went from something extra for the TV to something necessary for TV. Most of the compelling TV has moved to cable. OTA (over the air) broadcast is basically, medical shows, CSI shows and "unscripted" reality shows. That's it really. Well if you don't include the weekend sports. So OTA is really only useful for local news casts. And since 9-11, reception of traditional air broadcasts have sucked by me. So most people pay at least $12 for basic cable (AKA clear OTA programming). Now all those other stations, TBS, SPIKE, etc. are revenue streams for the likes of Time Warner, Cablevision, etc. as well as the "content providers." Cable companies and their local subsidiaries also have a monopoly on break in advertising. They sell advertising on various channels to local businesses. This is a brisk business that has branched out into movie theatres as well. Hulu breaks this business model completely since a great deal of people who use Boxee have cut the cable/satelite and use Boxee as their content viewer of choice. So the really big losers here: Cable companies. Not only are they losing customers who no longer pay the 70+ bucks/month for "premium content." They also lose the advertising bucks because they can't claim to reach x-amount of people per station.

The "content providers" still make money because all Hulu programming has advertising so they can still make a profit and that profit would increase as more people moved from Cable to Boxee.

Now if you don't want to believe me about the cable angle, then take a look at the Boxee blog where they discuss the cable company execs that came to "visit" Boxee at CES. If you think those execs left the Boxee booth saying: "Yo, good **** they have there." I suggest laying off the herb. I will lay out cold cash that these execs were on the cell phones with lawyers and "content execs" as soon as they left the Boxee booth. I surmise the conversations went something like: WTF!!! WTF!!!These people are putting your **** on OUR TV's!!!! We have CONTRACTS!!! WTF!!!!(Think Christian Bale interrupted during a Terminator shoot). I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some threat to not broadcast any "content provider" who continued to allow Boxee access to their content. Think not? How many times have you seen the scrolling threat to cut off some set of channels or another over some dispute with the tag: please call such and such company....?

Yes folks, my thinking is that the "content providers" were more than happy to get Boxee users streaming Hulu content to their shiny flat panel TV's. I believe that the cable companies saw the end to their business. Of course had they NOT decided to stick the public for way overpriced "content delivery." They wouldn't have had this problem, but anyone who did the math I did, realized that streaming video over their internet connection which is a must have today, along with a AppleTV costs less per year even in the first year, than a cable subscription."

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

And yet all this does is encourages music piracy as well as other recommendation systems. Ones that have the backbone to fight back (like Google is doing with Youtube) or evolve so that each step they take to block or sue users the P2P method improves.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

For those of you not following http://maemo.org/news

http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2009/0...aming-service/

Well, it also encourages to pay for commercial mainstream music (which actually makes sense) or to listen less music from a handful of private media conglomerates (and this includes plenty of "rebel" bands) and more non-mainstream and even freely distributable music bradcasted by public and not-for-profit organizations.

http://www.rtve.es/radio/radio3/ is a great example of what the money of citizens' taxes can pay. Priceless. Only one program (Atmósfera) has been enough to change completely my habits listening music.

And about new trends in commercial services, things like http://www.comeswithmusic.com/ are also interesting to follow.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Thanks, for that Atmosfera podcast thingies are so nice streamed to my nit :-)

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

I guess I am one of the last people who doesn't download 'free music' from the internet. I am also very biased since I do some sound recording and mixing part time and so I see a lot of friends and acquaintances employed by the music industry losing their jobs and finding it more and more difficult to make a living from their formerly established careers.

I'm definitely not above the making my own questionable moves when it comes to downloading music (I capture my paid Rhapsody stream to play offline) but I truly believe that the free ride nature that is taking over music will really begin to hurt the art not just the top executives.

edit: I do realize that the argument in this thread is more about the "pipe" through which the data comes through, where there is definitely a grey area.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

For centuries musicians have got an income mostly thanks to live performances. And it continues to be so for most of them.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

so far for the music revolution :) .
scheduled Revolutions don't take place ... I guess the old saying is true after all, but it was a nice service. any alternatives to look at out there?

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Yeah, it sucks bigtime how we, the end user, are getting screwed so often just so a handful of greedy suits can suck our wallets dry by forcing us to stay with old, outdated or overpriced technology instead of giving us more modern, current content at a reasonable price. Of course, the fact that a large number of companies have completely chucked the concept of "customer first" out the window I believe explains a lot.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

not only the customers. the artists, too. the only thing the music industry ever does is establishing and marketing brands. brands, as we know, are voodooware: it's something you know doesn't exist but you still pay for.
whoever is in the top 10 now isn't there because they make better music than others, but because there's a giant marketing machine that promotes the act. this marketing machine is expensive, is paid for by these companies and is the reason why other artists never have a chance to get noticed.

so because the music industry doesn't create any value, neither for the customer nor for the artist, it's best they disappear from the earth immediately. people did well before these companies existed and will do even better once they're gone for good.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

I've always taken the opposite view (though I do think some copyrights and patents are needed. Just not to the extent that they are today). But I don't produce music, I come from a science background which promotes sharing and remixing of ideas to produce new ones. If everyone in science acted like the music or movie industry, science would be nowhere near were it is today.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Plenty of people buy bottled water at the supermarket even though they can get water from the tap essentially for free.

Plenty of people will buy commercial music even when unlimited copying becomes legal.

There's only so long that an outmoded business model can be maintained. I give it 20 years at the most.

Regards,
Roger

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Because bottled water tastes better (IMHO), is cleaner, and hopefully without chlorine. The qualitiy justifies buying, IMHO.

As long as there's added value. But encrypted DRM'ed lo-quality sound files don't justify buying. I prefer to have a standard-conform Audio-CD with booklet as long as the quality justifies the price.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Precisely! If all laws against copying music were dropped, there would still be plenty of people who would pay for digital music. They would pay a trusted supplier to deliver properly-tagged virus-free files with good artwork at a reasonable price.

And those who want to get the same music informally for free, well that would be fine too just like those who drink water from the tap for free or collect their own rainwater.

But trying to perpetuate the current system of trying to force people to buy overpriced DRM-infested files, by trying to block off other options, well it's not going to work.

My daughter pays £1 per track to buy songs for her phone. I've warned her that her music won't play when she changes her phone. But she's young and that seems so far in the future, so she doesn't worry about it. After she gets a new phone and needs to buy all her music again, then I think she'll choose to avoid Digitally Restricted Media.

Regards,
Roger

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Hey, you guys remember me telling you about how the music industry is working it's butt off to prolong their own deaths, and will eventually capitulate to the demands of users? Well, I finally found the article:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/08...at-least-2011/

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Your feedback is also appreciated at

last.fm support in Media Player
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1649

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Here's an update from the last.fm blog

So these services will still work if they upgrade their API.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

I think the simple solution that they should go with is one used by other sites in the same situation. If someone comes in from outside the currently available advertising areas, ie, if they come from Italy, but Last.FM is only advertising in German, then simply swap in ads from Google's Adsense. Adsense is EVERYWHERE, and thus, if they can't earn money from previously purchased ads through their normal channels, they can just fall back on Adsense where and when necessary and the rest will take care of itself.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Good article. It reminds me of a story told by an EMI executive. I'm sorry I don't have the link.

The EMI guy had been in a focus group, discussing music trends with a bunch of teenagers. At the end of the session, he thanked them for their input and pointed to a pile of CDs, saying they could help themselves to any they liked.

To his astonishment none of the youths were interested in physical CDs anymore. The EMI guy said that was they day when he realised that the business model had changed forever.

Regards,
Roger

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

This one is a classic:

Courtney Love does the math

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

True, but the problem with relying on advertising revenue is that in recessions, people are less likely to buy things, making advertisements more pointless.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Your free trial to Last.fm Radio has ended. Subscribe to continue listening to non-stop, personalised radio.

Rest in peace, vagalume.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Why this change? And why so quickly?
Why it was free before, now it costs?

Ah well, I'll use xmms to listen to online radios then.. remove vagalume, a shortcut and that's it.

Bye bye lastfm

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

I dissaggree!

LastFM ROCKs...AND i would pay for that services.
The similarity functions works like a charm.

If you enter a artist, everything else sounds like that artist.
I LOVE listing to my loved tracks at home....at work I listen to other stations and add loved tracks.

And it doesn't play the same song over and over again.
not like yahoo.
not like sirius nor XM.

I need this BAD ***** in my CAR.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Correct. last.fm employs user discrimination by country (determined by their IP address). People in the USA, UK and Germany need not pay (yet). Everybody else, ~50$ per year.

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Don't worry atilla, I have a feeling they will be treating everyone "equally and fairly" soon enough. :rolleyes:

Re: [canola],[vegalume] Last.fm is pulling the plug
 

Proxy search time? Specifially, US/UK/DE :D