Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

As someone asked me to do a comparison in another thread, here it is, the Nokia 5800 compared to the Nokia N800/N810.

First of all, I don't think they are really direct rivals at all. Their physical size is very, very different. The 5800 is more-or-less the same size as an ordinary mobile phone, it's much narrower than the iPhone and much smaller than the tablets.

Unlike the tablets, the 5800 works in both vertical and horizontal mode, with automatic screen rotation choosing the correct mode when you tilt the phone.

For me the 5800's narrowness is a big bonus because it means I can use the phone in vertical mode with one hand, something that matters a lot to me and is important in a mainstream phone. Hang around any city centre and you'll see lots of people using their phones one-handed.

Some articles will tell you a stylus is required for the 5800, but I didn't find that to be the case, in fact I haven't used the stylus at all. The interface is designed to be operated with the phone held in one hand and the thumb selecting stuff from the screen.

The 5800's screen resolution is a bit like the main part of the N800/N810 screen with all the status bars removed. Here is the 5800 and N810 showing maemo.org at 100%:

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...1&d=1240756582

Despite its much smaller size, the 5800's screen is still pretty high res at 640 x 360, which is better than the iPhone and the PlayStation Portable. It's not as good as the N800/N810's 800 x 480 though...

The 5800's default browser is webkit-based so it's technically much closer to the iPhone's browser than the N800/N810's. Unlike the iPhone though, the 5800 has Flash support including Flash video, and here it is displaying Homestar Runner:

http://www.allaboutngage.com/images2...webbrowser.jpg

The browser also works in vertical mode:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...ngvertfull.jpg

As it's a mobile phone, the 5800 has lots of PIM stuff that the tablets don't have, for example a built-in calendar, to-do list etc etc. Weirdly though it doesn't have a paint application, something the tablets have always had.

E-mail support is broadly similar to the tablets, with POP/IMAP and the option of adding push clients. However the 5800's built-in e-mail client isn't very good, it's basically just an extension of the text messaging application. Dedicated third party clients are available though, and Nokia's got a proper e-mail client in public beta.

The 5800 has two cameras, a 3.2 megapixel autofocus at the back (which can also shoot VGA video at 30fps), and a tablet-style webcam on the front for videophone calls. Although the 5800's main camera is a lot better than the tablet cameras, it's not up to Nokia's usual high standards found on their higher end Nseries models and many have been disappointed by how grainy the 5800's pictures are by comparison.

There's no physical keyboard on the 5800 (though there is on the upcoming N97) but interestingly the text entry methods are virtually identical to those on the N800: Large virtual QWERTY for fingers, small virtual QWERTY for stylus, handwriting/gesture recognition. Added to those is a fourth mode, virtual keypad, which replicates the working of an ordinary phone keypad and is useable with one hand. I suspect Nokia learnt a lot from their tablets when designing the touch-based S60 interface.

However, the 5800 doesn't have a predictive QWERTY mode, which. coupled with the smaller physical screen size, makes text entry more tricky than on the tablets.

The 5800's GPS is ONE MILLION TRILLION times better than the N810's. The 5800 actually locks on, it locks on every time, all it needs is to be in a room with some windows, and it can lock on when you're moving too. It locks on very quickly, about 30 seconds at most, thanks to a combination of assisted GPS and phone mast location, and the maps download dynamically or can be pre-loaded from your PC. You have to pay extra if you want turn-by-turn guidance, but everything else is free as Nokia own the mapping company (Navteq).

Here's the GPS in hybrid satellite/map mode:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...hybridmode.jpg

The 5800's music player is a tiny bit easier to use than the default tablet player, but isn't hugely different. There are third party players available too.

There's a built-in podcasting application which lets you search podcast databases and online OPML directories, and subscribe to podcasts which download directly onto the computer without the use of a computer.

There are LOTS of free third party themes available on sites like mobile9 and babinokia. Here are a couple:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...0darktheme.jpg

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...inestheme2.jpg

The 5800 video player is easier to use than the default tablet player, as it has the video in full-screen by default and only displays controls when they're needed (for example if the video is paused, or if you touch the screen):

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...groupphoto.jpg

If you do the transcoding correctly the videos can use almost all the screen resolution, and it feels like having an HDTV in your pocket. Alternatively, you can just use most video files "as is" without any conversion, though they probably won't be optimised for the device. There's no OGG/DivX/Xvid support by default though.

The main interface is an evolution of previous S60 versions, partly because there's a very large incumbent userbase (more than all other smartphone platforms put together) and partly to allow backwards compatibility with older S60 applications. It's slightly confusing to use at first because some icons require one touch and others require two, due to its focus-based nature. However, you do get used to it as it's basically the same principles used by desktop PC interfaces, where you click once to select an item and click again to activate it, or click somewhere else (such as on the "delete" button) to do something else with that item.

Like all S60 phones the 5800 has proper multitasking, which can be accessed by holding down the menu key to make the task switcher appear:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...skswitcher.jpg

Currently Maemo easily beats the 5800 on app numbers. 5800 applications are a bit thin on the ground as this is a totally new OS version, Symbian 9.4/S60 5th Edition, but many S60 3rd Edition apps will work on the 5800 without any problems. It's a bit unpredictable which S60 3rd apps work though, so it's best to just try them and see. Hopefully the S60 5th application scene will pick up as more S60 5th devices are released (it's not just Nokia making them, Samsung and Sony Ericsson also have S60 5th phones in development).

And, of course, maemo totally beats the 5800 on open source. Open source apps for the 5800 are virtually non-existent right now, and Ovi Store is (so far) only open to commercial companies or self-employed individuals. Companies are allowed to give games away for free, but they have to have a registered tax number in order to become accepted as a publisher (there's no publisher membership fee though). The publisher agreement has provisions for open source releases though, so there's nothing to stop a commercial company publishing an open source application through Ovi Store.

Ovi Store is launching next month, and the Symbian OS is due to go open source next year (see the symbian.org website for more details on this), so the software situation may change radically over the next year or two.

Incidentally didn't someone say that Ovi Store would be available on maemo too? There's nothing to stop that because it's already going multiplatform by being launched on both Symbian S60 and NokiaOS Series 40 devices.

Getting back to the 5800, overall it's a great device for the price tag. It's half the price of the iPhone, and it's quite a bit cheaper than the N810 was when it launched, so it's clearly aimed at a much more mainstream audience than these devices. The 5800 is a phone above all else, it's been built from the ground up to be a phone, and is one of the very few touchscreen devices which can be comfortably used with one hand. I think that's why it will find its audience fairly easily, because it's been designed with a particular audience in mind.

That's what needs to happen to maemo, Nokia (or another hardware manufacturer) need to put maemo into a device that is squarely aimed at a specific market: mini-laptop, mobile phone, games console, music player... anything as long as it is marketed as serving a specific purpose. I'm not saying they should drop any features, I just mean they need to emphasise development of particular features, just like the iPod Touch emphasises media playback despite having the ability to do a lot of other things too.

That's been the N800/N810's biggest problem IMHO, shops and their customers find it difficult to know what they're for. They might be tempted to buy one, but they need to be given a solid excuse for actually going through with the purchase (i.e. a specific purpose in their life that the device will serve).

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Thanks, I'm considering getting one to replace my Tocco (really can't get on with this phone), and seeing how well it works alongside my N800. Having GPS, wifi, a decent camera (if it's the same 3.2mp lens as my old 6500 Slide, I'll be chuffed), an accelerometer, and everything else, it might just about be able to out do my tablet with day to day use. This review has answered the main questions I'd been wondering, thank you :)

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Glad it helped... :-)

The 5800's lens is a Carl Zeiss so it's pretty good, and it's autofocus so you can use it in differnet modes (portrait, macro etc), but the aperture is quite small so the photos tend to be a bit dark. It's fine when you're taking pictures in sunlight but photos in artificial light can be a bit dodgy.

If you (or anyone else) have any questions just post them in this thread, I'll try to answer them as best I can. I've got an N800, N810 and 5800 so I can compare them directly if required.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Amazing review! Thumbs up!

I hope that this phone lets us know what we have in store for the upcoming Tablet. There seems to be quite a bit of crossover between it and the N97, so I would assume that there would be similar with the tablet.

The OVI store, I believe, will add tremendous value to a lot of these phones. I really hope that Maemo will have an out-of-the-box option of using the OVI store, as this will greatly improve the attractiveness of the platform.

From a developer perspective, the market is positively HUGE, which should mean a ton of incentive to develop an OVI app and thus a lot of support for the ovi store! I'm actually considering writing an app-r-two.

Here's hoping that the tablet can get in on all of this fun!


YARR!
}:^)~
FalseCapt'n

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

I'd expect OVI more in the Harmattan timeframe.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

In a funny sort of way, Ovi Store being on S60 and Series 40 might actually help maemo. By being on Nokia's phones, it's going to build a userbase in the tens (and eventually hundreds) of millions, which will build its reputation as a place to get software.

If maemo gets its own version of Ovi Store (and perhaps other Ovi services too), that will be a feature and brand that non-maemo users will be familiar with, and make them happier about trying a Maemo device.

I realise the actual contents will probably be very different due to the different platforms, but at least it will be something that people know well and know how to use (assuming the maemo version uses a similar interface). And who knows, if upcoming maemo devices are Java compatible they might be able to use much the same Ovi Store content as Nokia's phones.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Well, not necessarily. Nokia purchased Trolltech for a reason, and part of that is to have a toolkit (Qt) that's compatible across all Nokia software platforms. The future direction for S60/Maemo compatibility is not Java, but Qt.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Gadzooks, you're right.

Hmm... this all starts to make sense...

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Thanks for the excellent comparison, Krisse! I have a few quick questions: is it possible to use the 5800 without a SIM, and if so, what functions wouldn't work? Obviously telephony, but anything else? I'm assuming WiFi connectivity. Also, can the TV output be connected to computer monitor/projector?

I've been waiting patiently for the new Maemo device(s), having owned the 770 and N810, but the 5800 looks fantastic for my needs. I suspect it'll also be MUCH cheaper than whatever new Maemo hardware appears.

Thanks also for your comments in the Tablet Scene post - I'm also a big fan/supporter of the Maemo idea, but have certain misgivings about the way it's being executed.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

You can use all Nokia devices without a SIM.

The only thing you need a SIM card for is accessing a phone network, i.e. calls, SMS texts, 2G/3G/3.5G internet access.

Everything else works without a SIM, including Wi-Fi internet access (which would allow internet calls through VOIP, though that can be a pain to set up).


It has TV Out using composite, which can also be plugged into SCART using an adaptor. If your monitor supports this you can plug it in.

There's a downside though, analogue video is pretty fuzzy at 640x360 or higher. It's fine for video, photos and gaming, but small text gets quite hard to read. I hope that the next maemo device uses a digital connector for TV Out.

My editor at All About Symbian managed to connect his 5800 to a Dell monitor:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...ts2/tv-out.jpg

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

BTW we've got a tablet school style set of tutorials on All About Symbian dedicated to the 5800:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...ips__Hints.php

They're meant for people who already have a 5800, but they're also quite useful for finding out what the 5800's features are like.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Thanks for the writeup. I had a chance to compare the 5800 (NAM) and my NIT for a week while in L.A earlier this month. I'll probably get roasted but, apart from screen size, the 5800 was a much more enjoyable experience than my NIT. Faster, easier to use, the d*mn browser actually works! There are less apps available for the 5800 (for now) than for the NIT, BUT... the ones that are available are completed, finished products that don't reuire any tweaking or extra configuring. They just work.

For instance, Garmin XT on the 5800 or Maemo mapper on the NIT? I know which one is ready to go from the moment you turn it on, maps installed already, routes, street look up, etc.

The 5800 impressed me to the point that i want to swap my NIT for one.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

C'mon everybody, grab your pitchforks and some rope. Weer gonna have ourselves a lynchin'. And bring some BBQ sauce, 'cause afterwards weer gonna slow cook 'm and then eat 'm.

@ukjeeper: The 5800 blows. J/K. Thanks for the story.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

I've had a 5800XM for some time as well, and have to say that compared to my N800, not the N810, that it makes for a a compelling solution - mainly on the strength of the better user expereince towards using it. Maemo just isn't as refined as Symbian S60 - yet.

That being said, I enjoy the larger physcal screen of my N800, and until 32GB microSDHC cards come to play, the N800 holds my media in a better manner.

Dell had a 48hr deal this past weekend of the 5800XM for $200; for that price, its better than any IT, large suite of open source apps or not.

---
Side comment: Symbian might not be as open source as many here are familiar with now, but remember that the Symbian Foundation has committed to making it fully open source, and it will be a pretty solid competitor to Maemo due to its already huge installed base and malleable ability to take in just about any kind of coding language developers throw at it.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Having played with a 5800 for a bit over at the Nokia store here in Manhattan, I can agree that it is currently the premiere touch screen device for Nokia. The resources dedicated to bringing it to where it is are probably orders of magnitude higher than the resources dedicated to the maemo devices. The flagship N97 looks like its receiving an amazing amount of R and D work, I heard a rumour that they are releasing new firmware every few days for the prototype devices and that the hardware is still going through tweaking with still more revisions before its june/july launch.

I hope that with the graduation of Maemo into a seemingly higher profile place in the Nokia ecosystem the tablets can take steps in the direction of the more polished experience you get from S60 as well as retain their unique mini-laptop capabilities.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Besides the keyboard, and an extra couple of megapixels, and built in memory (surely a 32gb MicroSD would be cheaper?) I can't see anything to make the N97 better than the 5800. It looks like it'll have the same screen, same processor, same features, and even be a bit chunkier, which is a turn off. Though, I think I'll wait till after the N97's launch before I get a touch S60 Nokia... I can see a lot of touch screen Nokia phones on the horizon. I'll wait to see what touch screen phones will be in the 6000 series, they're always classy but practical phones.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Yeah, I heard about that! And those were unlocked, unbranded, SIM-free non-contract models, so those 5800s really did only cost $200 in total. Heck of an offer...

(It was quite funny when people talked about the iPhone being "only $200", failing to mention the expensive contract and all the subsequent payments it demands.)

For my money, the 5800 is possibly the best-value Nokia phone they've ever made. It's not the best phone in the world, but IMHO it is by far the best phone at this price level.

BTW I suppose it's my fault for posting this thread in the "competitors" forum with a title like "5800 vs N810" ;) , but like I said before I don't really see these two devices as being directly in competition. They're very, very different devices aimed at different audiences. The 5800 is primarily used as a phone, the N810 is primarily used as a computer, though of course there's a lot of overlap in the feature set when you see them listed together.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Speaking of competitors, If I was really interested in the 5800 I would try and hold off until the Samsung i8910 Omnia HD came out. It's suppose to be this quarter. It's not going to be $200, but it's staying power might make it a better deal in the long run. And it will almost certainly be a better experience.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

They are very similar but there are some important differences.

The N97 has both 32 gigabytes built-in and a memory card slot, whereas the 5800 only has the memory card slot (plus a small amount of internal flash memory). Officially you could expand the N97's memory to 48 gigabytes, but unofficially (if the 32 gigabyte card works) then it could go up to 64 gigabytes in total.

I haven't used the N97 (and the final version isn't out anyway) but I'm going to guess that the N97's camera is a lot better than the 5800's. The 5800's camera aperture is smaller than on Nseries devices so its pictures tend to be darker, especially if taken by artificial light.


The N97's screen is the same resolution but physically bigger, 3.5 inches compared to the 5800's 3.2 inches.

The N97 processor will probably be faster, but no one is totally sure though as the confirmed production model processor specs haven't been released yet.

The features should be broadly similar, but the N97 will probably have better multimedia apps bundled with it as it's an Nseries device. Nseries phones generally have much better photo galleries for example.


Yeah, the Omnia HD looks really good, it's the first mainstream phone to shoot video in high definition. It's the same platform as the 5800 but with a better screen (same res but physically larger, brighter and more sensitive). On top of that the Omnia HD uses (I think!) OMAP3 and has graphics hardware.

However, this hardware comes at a price of course, and the Omnia HD is likely to be very expensive.

Also, you probably won't be able to use Ovi Store on the Omnia HD, at least not officially, because it's not a Nokia device.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

x2 on this. My choice for replacing the E90 in september (when my contract runs out) is (so far):

1. Omnia HD (i8910)
2. N97 (it would be #1 if they had put a real keyboard on it)
2. HTC Touch 2 (yeah i know, Win-blows, but i like the form factor. I almost went for the TYTN II last time around).

The 5800 would be just to play with.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

This is a somewhat interesting question. Linux devices with SDHC support will automatically support SDXC as long as you use something other than exFAT. Although I doubt Symbian is currently capable of addressing all 24 memory bits, I wonder how likely Nokia will be to push an update to provide SDXC support on existing S60 devices (since it's a software-only change). What was the history with the SD to SDHC transition?

I keep hearing ~600MHz ARM11 (which is really disappointing). Better than the 5800's 369MHz ARM11, but no OMAP3.

Yes, the OmniaHD is OMAP3, which (assuming the rumors about the ARM11 in the N97 are correct) is going to kick the pants off the N97.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the OmniaHD breach $800.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Pretty similar to Maemo, it was added via firmware to many existing models as well as appearing on new models.

Usually the official limits are far too conservative, and much larger cards will work albeit not as reliably. My first S60 device (S60 1st Edition!) had an official limit of 128 megabytes, but it worked with cards up to 1 gigabyte though it was a bit slow.


It may (or may not) have graphics hardware which would make it look a lot more impressive than the 5800. The N95, N93, N82 and E90 had graphics hardware with ARM11 as the main CPU.

The reason I suspect it might is because the N97 has been advertised right from the beginning as N-Gage compatible, but to run N-Gage games at 640x360 instead of the current devices' QVGA it would need a bit more oomph.

The 5800 comes with a cut-down version of an N-Gage game, Bounce, but it is very jerky compared to the original version. That's probably why the 5800 isn't getting any more N-Gage titles as it simply can't cope with 3D graphics at full resolution.

I could be wrong though, maybe the N97 won't have graphics hardware, and will just run the existing games as QVGA in some kind of lower res mode.



It'll certainly outclass any of its rivals technically, but whether that translates to higher sales remains to be seen.

If it goes over the $800 barrier as you predict (and I agree with you) it would have a very hard time making an impact beyond just technophiles.

The one thing it does mean though is that it would be very plausible for Nokia to do an OMAP3 Symbian device, and I'd expect to see them do it sooner or later simply to keep up with Samsung. Samsung has recently taken the lead technically with S60, they were the first to do an 8mp S60 model, the Samsung Innov8, and Nokia is now bringing out their own 8mp called the N86. From what I hear, Samsung knows that Nokia dominates S60 so they have to make an impact with real "standout" devices which get peoples attention.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Well, the official limits usually only relate to what was available for testing when it was certified. The limits that should be paid attention to are the spec limits. Usually, anyway, but since the SDHC 32GB limit is purely artificial. . . .

I can't imagine them shipping their flagship phone without some sort of accelerated 3D.

Actually, it's not even the OMAP3 that's the really big impact. That camera and that giant screen can't be cheap, either.

I can't imagine Nokia waiting much longer for a Cortex-based Symbian device. With the Pre, the OmniaHD, and likely an iPhone sooner rather than later the market will outpace them very quickly.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Which market?

The 5800 has a 369mhz processor, no graphics hardware, and it now apparently has a 20% share of worldwide touchscreen phone sales.

Clearly a lot of people care more about getting a particular bundle of features for a low price, and don't really pay any attention to raw specs.

But you're right that if Nokia wants the expensive end of the smartphone market they would have to bring out something with a stronger processor, simply to replicate the graphical effects that other highest end devices would have.


On the Omnia HD? Yeah, the whole thing seems very very expensive.

What interests me though is that if it sells well then the same platform would have succeeded both on mid-range devices (5800) and expensive ones (Omnia HD), and from the top two manufacturers. That would be a big boost to S60 as a touchscreen platform.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Krisse, just wondering, how does the 5800 do with apps running in the background? For instance, if running last.fm (through Mobbler, I presume), does it carry on playing while you go off to browse the web? And is there a messenger that can cope with MSN that alerts you when there's a new message, while you're doing something else? Or talking to someone on a messenger while listening to your last.fm library? I know my whole post's pretty much been an example... do you see what I'm asking? I know I'm not all too clear...

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

The 5800 has full multitasking, so yes you can run many apps at once.

All Symbian S60 devices have always had full multitasking, the Symbian OS was built with that in mind. You just hold down the menu key and it works exactly like the task switcher on any computer (you can see the task switcher in my original post). Everything in the background carries on running, the switcher just chooses which app to display on the screen.

The only limit on multitasking is the amount of free RAM a device has after startup, all active applications have to fit within that RAM limit, but that's true for all computing devices.


Yes, you can do both those things at once, and more too.

You can run as many apps as you want within the RAM limit.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

I think this is a good point that's been proven a few times in the last few years... technologies have reached the point where often "bigger and more powerful" != "better", as there's still huge markets for more cost effective and relatively useful devices. I mean realistically there's still a HUGE market for traditional... "non-smart" phones, especially in times when the economy is a bit rough. And I think devices like the 5800 show that Nokia is aware of that market space and trying to keep up with it. Sure, they can make super fancy sports cars, but at the same time they know a lot of the current business is going to be made selling regular old cars that have a really comfy seat and some "modern luxury features" to make the end user feel "cool and up to date".

The same thing happened with consoles... XBox 360 and PS3 vs Wii... look at the numbers, the overall market sales, and the hardware specs. Doing something relatively cool for a lower price pays off big time if you understand the market your after.

The underlying point here is that if you look at all the information we have with current products, including the N97, it definitely would appear that Nokia's doing a product shift... migrating the formerly "high end" stuff into a more mainstream market, and, it sounds like, trying to leverage something new (Maemo devices wink wink nugde nugde know what I mean?) into the "power user" sector. After all, making the N97 a little gentler on the hardware specs side makes a lot more sense with a new generation of Maemo OMAP3 devices arriving soon, that it would to have the N97 and like sitting at almost exactly the same point and trying to compete for very similiar market space.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Something like 85% - 90% of total phone sales are non-smart phones, it's by far the most popular category. I don't know if most tech journalists realise this though... ;-)

Incidentally, Nokia's just done a WebKit browser for their non-smart phones too, so they're catching up with more expensive devices and may become (or already be) the main way of accessing the internet, especially in poorer communities where landlines, PCs and electricity supplies are scarce.


I would agree with you if they make a Maemo phone. If the new Maemo device isn't a phone though, I can't really see it providing a proper alternative to the N97.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Nokia in their marketing for the 5800 said it was a device designed to appeal to the mass market and to move touch screen devices out of the "luxury" side of the market. It was not really designed to compete with the top end of the market. I can't seem to find a link right now.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

i will love to see a little wider screen on the 5800, i am in looking to retire my N95 but not having two devices in both pants, the Omnia HD and touch HD2 are a competitive devices that the N97 will have to face unless the price tag beats them we will have to wait and see.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

I would not at all be surprised if Maemo 5.5/6 featured a high-end "phone" at the top of the heap. The signs point to it, Nokia all but says it in action, and frankly, its a smart thing for them to do to maximize their Maemo stake.

The 5800 is definitely a phone for the masses, its not a power-user device, nor is it the device Nokia wants to use to push Ovi to the "market influencer" bunch of folks.

That being said, the N97 sure does seem like it should have been an IT. Design language, hardware, timing. It seems less like the other N-series devices and a lot more like what we would have seen from an "N900-like" model.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

It would be interesting if the N97 were based upon design work done for an Elephanta device before that release was dropped in favor of rolling on to Fremantle.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Does it have an MMU?
Not sure even if my old n95 has one.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

I agree, it would make sense, but who knows what they'll do. Nokia behave strangely sometimes... :-)


IMHO Ovi Store's strength comes from the lower end. It's going to be on most Series 40 devices from now on, which means (if sales stay the same) approximately 200 to 300 million S40 devices per year, plus about 60 million S60 smartphones on top of that, plus Maemo devices... Ovi would be reaching a lot more ordinary people than the current crop of mobile app stores.

(And Ovi itself is a lot more than just the store, it covers all of Nokia's online stuff including mapping, gaming, e-mail, media sharing, syncing, cloud computing etc with a single login.)


It reminds me of the Communicator range, which were Nokia's first foray into pocket computing. They use Symbian nowadays, but their roots go right back to the GEOS platform of the mid-90s.

No doubt we'll see an Eseries Communicator which uses a similar shape to the N97 at some point soon.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

Last Thursday I bought a 5800 and now I have both devices as well.
Here my impression:

..::N810::..

SPECS:
- Screen 800x480 / 4"
- ARM processor 400 MHz
- MAEMO OS2008 Debian like Linux
- 128MB memory, 2GB internal storage (of which 128MB swap space), max 32GB external MiniSD storage

PRO:
- Open source system full fledged Linux
- No hassles with certificates
- Large screen for a pocket device
- Browser handles virtually all sites properly
- Lots of standard access to and from device (SSH, SFTP, VNC) as it is Linux
- Lots of freeware applications (the only paid application is the excellent Wayfinder Map)
- Can be used as webserver (Apache / Lighttpd with PHP 5)
- No bloated Windows apps (such as PC Suite, Maps Loader) needed for Updates and syncing, it can update itself like a real Linux computer.


CON:
- Somewhat heavy (200g)
- No office suite
- No phone (other than Voip client) but can use a GPRS/UMTS with Bluetooth as a modem
- Some touchscreen elements do not work properly (e.g. you have to click 10x before checkmarks / radio buttons respond)
- Poor GPS



..::5800::..

SPECS:
- Screen 640x360 / 3.5"
- ARM processor 369 MHz
- Symbian S60v5
- 80MB memory (of which 40 MB user memory), max 32GB external MicroSD storage

PRO:
- Smaller pocket size
- Large screen for a phone but smaller than N810
- Touchscreen slightly better than N810 (checkmarks work and feedback by vibrating)
- Lots of nice skins available for free

CON:
- No virtual memory which results programs will be killed with a silly 'memory full' message (although this is rather rare compared to older phones)
- Browser not complete yet (cookies do not work on local pages, some sites are not rendered properly, and user agent cannot be changed, which limits some sites to see only limited mobile content)

What BOTH have:
- Builtin GPS (N810 is poor, 5800 unknown as I use a Bluetooth GPS)
- Touchscreen
- Possible for guided navigation (paid, about $100 extra) and free mapper and other GPS related applications and both can use Bluetooth GPS
- Use as VoIP client (N810:Skype, Both:Fring, etc.)
- Use as media player
- Use as web browser although the 5800's browser is somewhat limited
- Use with instant messaging and mailing



Both devices together cost less or at most the same as a single N97 but have lots more functionality. The price is for both about the same, about EUR 320 in Europe (which might equal $250-$300 in the US).

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

I don't know where people get this idea that Symbian requires Windows apps. The 5800 has OTA firmware updates and all of its PIM and other stuff can be synced directly through the phone's own internet connection. (That's part of the point of Ovi, to allow on-phone syncing.)


Why is a built-in GPS a con if you haven't even used it?

The 5800's GPS is excellent, far far better than the N810s. I've never had a reliable lock with the N810, whereas the 5800 locks every time and quickly too.

Also, the 5800 can use a variety of GPS software: Nokia Maps, Google Maps, Garmin etc.


EDIT:
You'd have to be running quite a few apps at once to get that message, I haven't run into it so far.

S60 used to have far too little free RAM until about 2007, but from 2008 onwards Nokia got the message and started putting useful amounts of free RAM in their Symbian devices.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

. . . or so Nokia claims, although I've seen no evidence of them actually working.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

How do you do this direct from the phone ?
I reflashed it with PC Suite (in a VMware session of XP under Kubuntu ;-) )

I will try it I am just used to the Qstarz BT GPS as it is very good and even fixes indoors.

You are right, I had an E70 before and even then I rarely got the 'memory full'. Before that I had a 6680 which issued this awful message virtual every webapge I opened.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

While this is what you'd expect from Ovi, it doesn't work that way. You can sync your data with the Ovi server only with a limited number of devices, but you can't get it out again (like sync it with your desktop mail client or another mobile device) except you use a special Windows-software. So as the typical consumer (1 phone and Windows) you do need extra software to sync. Other users (phone, tablet, GNU/Linux) cannot sync at all.

This basically limits the use of Ovi to an online backup - if you get it to work at all. My phone for example should be supported but fails to sync ("server error"). Nokia support is unable to help me, other users of the same phone report the same issue.

OTA firmware updates are much the same: They might work if you're lucky, but there's the same chance that they don't: OTA will tell you there's no update available when in fact there is one. You'll still need the windows-software for reliable operation.

Re: Nokia 5800 vs Nokia N810
 

:eek:

So all four times that I have updated my 5800 by OTA, I was actually hallucinating? ;)

How is it then that I've constantly had the latest firmware on my 5800, despite never flashing it with a computer?


It's pretty much the same as the tablets, though there's no automatic alert about updates being available. You can flash it with Windows if you want, or you can download the updates directly onto the device. Flashing via a PC tends to be traditionally more reliable than OTA in theory, but I haven't had any problems with OTA updates on the 5800 so far.

Here's a tutorial on firmware updates I wrote for All About Symbian:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...pressMusic.php

...but if you want it in a nutshell, dial *#0000# from the main standby screen, then use the options menu to check for updates.

The same menu can be reached through the Settings section (Settings > Phone > Phone Management > Device Updates).


The 5800 will fix indoors too as long as you're in a room with windows. Having a SIM card in also helps because it will be able to use both AGPS and phone mast positioning.

I can't compare the two directly because I don't own a separate GPS unit, but the 5800's built-in GPS is a whole lot better than the N810's.

(In fact all of Nokia's phones have much better GPS than the N810, the N810 must be the worst GPS device that Nokia have ever made.)



There have been four updates so far, and I've used OTA updating four times successfully.

I have never had an OTA update fail.


Sometimes it takes longer for an update to appear on OTA, but most ordinary users don't care about getting an update the same day it is issued.

And I wouldn't call that a reliability issue, because once the update becomes available through OTA it continues to be available.

Also bear in mind that firmware rollouts on phones are much more complex than on the tablets, because phones have many dozens of firmware variations for different countries and network-locked variants.