Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/08/n...900-leaks-out/

-ioan

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Phone, but I swear when I first saw it, I thought I was looking at a different bezel for the N810.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

new phone... Or not even that looking at the comments.

A tablet would hopefully have a 4+ inch screen like the current ones.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

more info here
http://translate.google.com/translat...l%26hs%3Dn1m&r

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Guess again.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Your link has been abbreviated to 'n...900-leaks-out'. Got me very excited till I clicked it...

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

...but that is just wrong, Mr. Rat, and you know it!!

Is it smaller? (couldn't be 'cause 800px is mighty tight as it is and Maemo will stay there)
or is it bigger? (slightly more plausible but almost certainly would require a size increase)

So you say the screen of the N900 non-internet-tablet
is NOT going to be the current 4 inch size?

why don't you just make it easy and tell us all you know,
OK??
http://talk.maemo.org/images/icons/icon14.gif
dcarter

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

It's a phone, it's got the XpressMusic branding on it which means a mid-price media-oriented phone.

Plus the numbering is more in line with the phone numbering than tablet numbering: 5900 would be a step up from the current 5800 phone.

Nokia has apparently ordered an enormous number of capacitive touchscreens, I bet they're for this device (assuming it isn't a fake).

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Needing a good phone for when I go to college this summer, its going to be the Pre, iPhone2, next Android, or the N900 (google voice for SMS and SIP). Only really compelling reasons to stick with the nokia is its probable lower monthly rate (data only is cheaper than data+voice+text right?) and larger screen size. I really hope the screen does not become smaller...

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

...what about the Nokia N97?

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

I'll only tell you not to count on 4" (or 4.3") screens being an absolute. I gotta check my severance "agreement" to see what else I can say... :rolleyes:

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

If (and that's a big if) maemo is going to eventually be used on phones, a big step towards that would be making the maemo interface work on screens that are under 4 inches in size.

The N97 has a 3.5 inch screen, and even that is being referred to as a brick by some people, so perhaps Maemo has to aim for screens that are under 4 inches if it wants to enter the phone market. Just for reference, the 5800 has done pretty well and it has a 3.2 inch screen, so physically small screens are doable on touchscreen devices.

I suspect that's what Texrat is getting at, but he almost certainly wouldn't be able to comment either way due to signing some kind of NDA which covers unreleased products (and I'm not going to ask him to comment as I don't want him getting into trouble).

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

I can say that those doubting the capabilities of smaller screens are in for a very pleasant surprise... ;)

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Good gawds. What's up with all these mega touchscreen phones!? I'm happy with a phone being just that, a phone. I don't need all the bells and whistles on my phone. I'd rather have a separate device for that, like an n810. ;) :P

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

I dunno, I find the iPhone kinda irritating with its screen size. =P

But then again I'm the kind of guy that would opt for a 17 inch laptop over a 15 inch one. *shrugs*

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Ok, I want to revise my statement.

For an Internet Tablet, 4+ inches is perfect. Less is just too small...

For a phone, however, 3.2-3.8 is perfect. It has to be usable in one hand, and easy to hold to the face.


And about the N97, I highly doubt I could get a reasonable deal for that in the states. Never really liked symbian, at least the N95 version (not sure which N95).

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

It will be a pleasant surprise if an Open Office screen is readable on a < 4" screen.

Want to know how big the screen will be? Review what the Nokia folks said at the 2008 summit about the required minimum size of a finger-friendly button. Then find the smallest widget in the SDK. Assume that it is the aforementioned minimum size. Figure out the screen size from there ;)

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

I hope that people wanting/needing the new tablets to perform as microlaptops are still in Nokia's agenda. The form factor of today's NITs is quite optimal. Otherwise, it will be disappointing. Not that there aren't competitors... :cool: (ooops! where did I leave my Pandora?)

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

What's up with them is that most people prefer to carry one device in their pockets instead of two...


Well, you can actually have a very large screen on a small device thanks to TV Out:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...ts2/tv-out.jpg

and a very large keyboard too thanks to Bluetooth:

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...e/5800su8w.jpg

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

I hope thats not it, that is one ugly dog.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

This really bums me out, using Xournal to annotate pdfs is one of the most valuable uses for my N800, and I can just manage to write legibly with my shakey old-man motor skills... I really hope it won't be much smaller...

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

interesting information regarding the 5900 with some details

http://www.concept-phones.com/nokia/...phone-concept/

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

that one is fake

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

You mean Nokia is opening revolutionary optician shops all over the world? :D

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

mhm... funny. that's what i wrote in my blog a few days ago about the beta SDK: that it only makes sense if you think of it being used on tiny phone displays.

i'm not sure if i'm going to be pleasantly surprised. if they move towards the phone form factor only, i'll have to use my laptop again. or buy a netbook.

OTOH, they said there'll be more than one device. maybe screen size is one of the differences between the devices and they had to create these monstrosities of widgets to allow for smaller screens.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Not a bad idea... If they released only a small device some would bash it for being too small for doing any Serious Stuff. On the other hand a bigger device would cause a bashing for being too big compared to iPhone.

If the size would be the only differentiating factor, it would be really hard to decide between them though :rolleyes:

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

"now listen: if you can't decide between two toys, always take both. this is very important."


(that's what my bf once said to his 5 year old godchild when they went shopping in the toys department... much to the delight of the shop assistants. the boys mother who was with them was less amused.)

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Didn't he mention you should also take two of each, in case one gets broken or lost ? :-)

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

good idea. i will have to say that next time we see him. i'm not sure he'll listen to me, though. he's very unimpressed by how i fail even on the most simple pre-installed games on my phone... i'm not exactly a role model. ;)

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Nokia have got two choices with how to make Maemo commercially viable.

They can either make it a lot bigger (to compete with mini-laptops):

http://www.gadgeteer.org.uk/wp-conte...n810vseee1.jpg

or make it a lot smaller (to compete with phones and music players):

http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php...1&d=1240756582

http://mightygadget.co.uk/wp-content...ands-on-20.jpg

Staying where they are isn't an option, as it isn't really leading anywhere commercially. People simply aren't buying tablet-sized devices, they are all going for something smaller or bigger.

Obviously a lot of people on maemo.org are happy with the tablets the way they are, but the new devices need more than just current maemo.org users in order to survive commercially. The number of people using maemo has to grow a lot if it is to stand on its own two feet.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

You keep saying this, but I don't believe it. The only reason the MID-sized market isn't exploding is because the tech hasn't yet gotten to the point where it's powerful enough to replace those small laptops for most people's uses, but that's changing this generation.

This market is going to explode over the next 3 years.

Really, though, there's no way Nokia isn't planning on diversifying the lineup, so it's a moot point.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Or both, as I've always suggested.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

I think Krisse has put it very well in a nutshell: I also believe that most people (outside the ITT readers...) either look for something in a size of a phone, or bigger (netbooks). The key characteristics are (in my opinion) that it has to be easily pocketable (phone size), or big enough for serious web surfing or office document viewing/editing (netbook size that fits in a small suitcase or purse/backpack). The tablets fall between those two.categories. That "in between" category hasn't been marketed yet, so most people do not know that they need that too... or that it could be a compromise to replace both the phone and netbook.

I think it is just marketing: If Nokia was serious about making tablets a hit they could have made a big marketing campaing and make people aware of that "need". But as most of you know the current tablets just aren't really ready for ordinary people, yet.

EDIT: Just what GA said... there is a market that can be fit and can be a success. The main reason why this has not happened yet is because the technology just hasn't been there yet. Phone tech is mature, as well as laptops, which the netbooks are a derivate. MID market is new and at its infancy.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Again, the solution is platforming.

Personally I think Nokia dropped the ball there (and I'm well aware of the deliberate rationales involved) but I'm trying to be hopeful...

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Then why did even the cheapest EEE PC and its rivals do so well despite having specs similar to the N810? The reason I think they succeeded while the tablets failed is the stuff beyond the specs, i.e. the actual device size.

You can't really use a tablet-size device as an effective substitute for a computer. It doesn't matter how good the processor is, the small tablet keyboard cripples the device as a computer.

Typing is absolutely key to using e-mail, instant messaging, chat rooms, word processing, spreadsheets, forum posting, and a lot of other core computing functions. All of these things are quite painful on an N810-size device compared to a mini-laptop or larger. You might write one or two sentences on an N810 keyboard but very few people would use them beyond that for any length of time.

Even hardcore users benefit from a netbook-size (or larger) keyboard because it makes programming, web site maintenance, script editing, command lines etc a lot easier to use.

Mini-laptop keyboards are probably the smallest keyboard you can comfortably type large amounts of text on. Once you go smaller than a mini-laptop, text entry becomes annoying, so the device ceases to be about doing and more about passive things like watching, listening and reading. There's not much action, it's mostly just data flowing one way into the device instead of off it.

That's why Canola's designers concentrated on consuming media, because they knew that a tablet is more about watching things than actually creating stuff. That's probably also why things like the iPhone/iPod Touch and Kindle are doing so well, because they are all about media consumption and have almost nothing to do with productivity.

I just went away for a week's holiday and was able to type long articles (2000+ words each) on the cheapest model EEE PC. I could never do that on the N810, my fingers would give up after the first 500 words.

I could do my job on a mini-laptop, I cannot do it on a tablet. It's nothing to do with processor speed or anything like that, it's just very very difficult to write large amounts of text on a tablet keyboard.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Well, first, the specs aren't remotely similar. Second, Office.

Really, consumers don't know what a tablet is or why they need it. They get netbooks, as they're just small laptops. This doesn't mean that there's no market for tablets, it just means that somebody needs to show consumers why they need them. This is what Nokia's going to really ramp up on with Fremantle.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

This is absolutely right (Edit: I should have said "I agree with you" :)). I can think of three basic categories of mobile gadgets:

* The Communicator - You want to always carry it with you to be connected, and thus it must be pocket sized. It doesn't just communicate with other people, but also with the internet and your data. Data input is limited to writing messages and entering small amounts of new data (e.g. adding a calendar entry, or entering a website URL). I believe a thumb keyboard is ideal for this and a very sensible upgrade over T9 input.

This will also often be your music player, because it makes sense to be able to listen to your music wherever you are walking.

* The Reader - As you point out, this is what the mass market "tablets" are apparently aiming for. Large displays to display media, especially for convenient reading and watching films. This is something you want to be able to carry in a small bag, like a book. It doesn't matter that it fits in your pocket, because you don't need it to be accessible on a moment's notice, and it doesn't need any sophisticated input methods whatsoever. I believe that a thumb keyboard is completely out of place on such a device.

* The Workstation - Any laptop or netbook is designed to get work done. The ideal form factor is a light and thin device that fits easily into a bag or suit case. Whenever you intend to get work done, you are likely to at least carry your bag or suitcase with you. The MacBook Air is a very good example for this, as is any netbook of course. What matters here is ten-finger data input and the ability to run off-the-mill productivity applications.

Now, it seems that some believe that we will have a need for a tablet designed as a workstation. I would be surprised if this actually happened, because it really limits your potential userbase. On the one hand you have people who would be willing to make compromises (mainly much less efficient input) for the sake of saving money (by only buying a single device) or convenience (by not having to carry a bag to work). Since this kind of device would be about your productivity, I don't believe that too many people would be willing to make this kind of compromise.

On the other hand, you would have people who depend on complex data-input and -crunching while walking around. This may be the case in various industrial areas, and this seems to be what TexRat is often talking about.


Now think about what kind of device Maemo (and especially Fremantle) would be most suited for.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Also, keep a version the same size.

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

Ok, I've got the whole bluetooth keyboard thing, but that darned TV out thing looks slick as heck. Kinda wish there were some way over the USB port that could do that with my NIT. :(

Re: Is this the next nokia tablet or just a new phone?
 

I agree with Krisse this far: Tablet-size is not the sweet-spot that phone-size and subnotebook-size are, for the reasons he and kanishou are saying.

But that doesn't mean Tablet-size can't succeed; it just won't sell as many units as the other categories. Not as many people "need" a Tablet-sized device, like they need a cellphone or a laptop. But I do -- and I can't believe I'm the only one!

I think there are generally special reasons that Tablet users like the Tablets, or else they would just use a phone and a laptop. Fortunately, there are enough of us with "special reasons" that I believe we comprise a market that is sustainable, even if it is not a market nearly as large as the cellphone market

(Speaking personally, as an example, my reasons are "special": As I've said before, for lightweight foreign travel, there's nothing else that comes close. But lightweight foreign travelers aren't exactly a huge market. And I like to surf the web, read eBooks, etc. in bed -- again, nothing (other than the iPhone/iTouch) comes close -- but that isn't exactly a burgeoning market, either.)