What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council

I keep reading Maemo Community Council page, and I am trying to understand a few things. This is meant to be an informative discussion on what a community council member does, and how communication can be improved and more members can be reached.

This seems straightforward, but what is meant by Nokia? Is this internal to the maemo organization. Is this Nokia? I guess I could use a refresher on the Relationship between Nokia and Maemo.

Also what does the "community's best interest" mean, as defined by the elected members? I am much prefer this wording
"The Council's primary purpose is to represent the views and opinions of the Maemo Community to Nokia" taken from the top of the council page. Even with this wording, how do council members go about getting the views and opinions of the community at large?

1) Lets start by saying that the two items in red seem to contradict each other. Seems the most logical place to have these discussions is in the forums, since they are the most visited place on maemo.org? Additionally while the IRC logs are available and perhaps maybe the mail logs are too? It does not provide an easy way for people to follow. There is also council blog and it does provide information. Often this is information about things that have happened, like changes were made somewhere.


2) What does the council do on a day to day basis? How much of your time a week is spent on council activities? If someone else is considering running, what should they expect.


There are two things I hope to come of out his discussion,

Everyone will understand the roles council plays and what is expected from council members.

Additional thoughts on how to improve communication to the entire community, since this this the main role council plays.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On top of all this, accomplishments. TOOT YOUR OWN HORN. Seriously you don't know how many times have I seen the guy that was holding the whole company together get fired because he was quietly sitting in the corner doing his job and three other peoples, but nobody knew what he was doing. Don't be that guy... ;)



....

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Nokia is Nokia; Maemo is Nokia. Maemo SW is a product division within Nokia (much like Qt SW) that develops Maemo (which is the software platform for Nokia tablet devices). The relationship is between Maemo SW and the community.

By paying attention to what the community is saying. A large part of a council member's work involves watching Talk, watching the mailing lists, watching IRC, watching Planet, and generally watching any place where Maemo things are happening. In order for a council member to do their job, they need to be as informed as possible (since this it isn't realistic for one person to be completely informed about everything going on in Maemoland, this is why we have five).

Now, let's make two things absolutely clear here:

First, maemo.org is not Nokia. Nokia pays the bills for the servers and the personnel, but maemo.org is community owned and run. This means maemo.org staff members generally set their own agendas with input from the community (which is primarily filtered through the council) and other maemo.org staff members (you saw this process in the sprint meeting yesterday).

Second, paying attention does not mean doing whatever the loudest and squeakiest wheel says whenever it says it. When you elect people to the council, you're picking people who you think will best represent your views. This means that you're essentially telling these people that, "Yes, I generally agree with your opinions and I'd like you to represent me." You're enabling them to make decisions without running a vote on every issue that comes up. This reduces bureaucratic overhead (not having to run a community-wide vote every time a small issue comes up) and lets the people who are making it their job to be informed about what's happening in the community make those smaller decisions.

If your views and the views of the council members you voted for begin to drift, then you're free to try to vote them out next election (this is why the terms are relatively short) or try running yourself.

No they don't. What it means is that if you're interested in following everything that the council is up to, then you need to be following -community and IRC as, by default, that's where council-related business will be discussed. Council-related business, however, is not anything and everything vaguely community-related.

This is a technical issue, and the vBulletin integration will solve it. For now, -community will be the default place for council discussions. There aren't really any compelling reasons to change the existing arrangement in the short term and several disadvantages to such a change.

General #maemo chatter, no, but the really important stuff always goes on in #maemo-meeting and always gets a log on the website. mgedmin kindly provides logs of #maemo.

The mailing list archives are all available online (in at least 3 different formats, I might add). They're quite easy to follow if you subscribe to them (easier than the forums, actually), and no different from forums if you're following them on Gossamer Threads.

I'm not sure if you've noticed my Community Highlights column, but it covers everything that I believe to be relevant to community interests (unfortunately it's on hold for thanks to real life requirements). Of course this sort of thing will never be absolutely complete (what one person thinks is relevant is not what another person may think is relevant, but that's one thing about a community you have to understand—your own opinion isn't necessarily everybody else's opinion).

Me, personally, a lot (there's some additional detail—and a lot of really classy comments—in my Mobile Tablets! interview). I consider staying on top of what's happening in the community to be a council activity, and I do a lot of that (there really isn't much Maemo-related that gets past me). Facilitation activities basically involve being involved in discussions and sometimes contacting certain people directly, which is also something I do a lot of. Sprint activities as chair will take between 3-6 hours of your time per month (this is Jaffa's job this time around, though) and about 2 hours of your time as a regular council member.

Anything else Maemo-related I do (Bugsquad triaging, wiki editing, and such) take a lot of my time, but aren't really council activities.

A lot of work. It's not an easy position. Expect to invest a lot of time and effort, and expect to deal with unpleasantness on a pretty regular basis.

The a council member's role in the community is one of facilitation, this means that a lot of council work will take place in the background where it's not highly visible. A council member's job is to help make the community to grow and run smoothly, and make sure things are happening by connecting the right people and removing roadblocks where possible.

There's very little (really, nothing, in fact) that can be attributed singularly to the council's efforts, but almost nothing that it hasn't had a hand in helping along. The best sign of the success of council efforts is a community that is producing new things and growing. If you want examples of the council's success, I'd recommend asking around a bit to find out where the council's been helping.

Really, people on the council are already highly involved individuals and much of what they do they'd be doing regardless of whether they were on the council or not. Council-related activities are neither glamorous nor highly visible, and they really shouldn't be—a strong community is not one that's entirely driven by one five-member body.

If you want an example, though, I think HAVAPlayer is a fairly good one (demonstrating both the behind-the-scenes and unglamorous nature of the role). If you recall, HAVAPlayer for Maemo was initially distributed as a .deb through their website, but Niels and I worked to convince them that putting their application into Extras would be a benefit to them and their users, then Niels assisted them with getting it into Extras and now it's available for all tablet owners with Extras enabled on their devices.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

IMO the council could stand to try listening without a ready rebuttal sometimes. It's difficult, but often necessary.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

WOW GA, that was the best post I have read from you in a while, not that I follow ;)

There was some slight snarkyness. But very nice input.

I still think telling people to go read IRC logs doesn't seem to me to make sense? Especially when #maemo is 24 hour channel with people discussing all kinds of things in different timezones, and some of those logs can be very long.

I just clicked on the mail archives, and that is definitely not easier to follow than a forum. And I don't see any reason these couldn't be put to the forum, where more people would participate?

Seriously thank you

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

I'm not telling people to read the #maemo IRC logs, I'm telling people to read the meeting logs which are rarely more than a few hundred lines long.

The bigger point, though is that the council is active on IRC, so we tend to do a lot of things on IRC. It's real-time, which is helpful for discussion and understanding (you don't end up with people misunderstanding you and carrying that festering around for hours or days), it's easy to get a hold of a lot of core people quickly, and it's low-overhead. This doesn't mean you have to read the logs, only that you need to be aware that stuff does happen there.

Which mail archives? The ones on maemo.org, or the Gossamer Threads ones (which are set up just like a forum)?

Different people would participate.

If you make it an either or proposition, you get a different set of people participating in either place. There is some overlap between the mailing lists and Talk, but it's not complete (we have many more Nokians on the mailing list for starters).

If you cross-post between the two then you end up with the same problem cross-posting always causes, the same discussion taking place in two different places.

Neither of these things is desirable, which is why I'm pushing a technical solution, the vBulletin integration. Until that comes together, though, council stuff is going to -community (don't worry, it shouldn't be too long).

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

So can you talk more about what you mean by "vBulletin integration"?

Oh, and yes neither mailing list archive is optimal to me.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Exactly what it says. Integrate the lists into vBulletin so you basically end up with each mailing list looking like a forum (like General, maemo.org, Applications, etc.).

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

I think penguinbait has a point here:
Proposing some changes:

Comments:

- Why Twitter when we have Talk.

- I don't think the sprint tasks are actually Council related. Or better said, I don't think that council members taking tasks there take them because they are council members. All those tasks can be pushed by someone with the will, the time and the skills. Being elected changes nothing. It's actually the other way around: skilled people investing a lot of time in community tasks might end up easily being elected in the Council.

The latter is an important detail. The role of the council is more of facilitation than actual work. Of course council members take a lot of work, but they would take it anyway without being elected, am I wrong?

This goes for

If that would be true then we should change something in the council's mission and objectives. Anybody with the skills and the support should be able to be a good council member without having to set aside job, family, friends or even their current community activities. Otherwise it's not sustainable.

Luckily, I think what you say is only partielly true. Being a Council member has its obligations but (at least as I see it as humble community member and voter) they are more in terms of qualitative contributions rather than volume of work. Still the qualitative contributions do take time and are not easy to handle (agreed!) specially when your head and your voice is more visible for time-consuming questions and criticism (that are part of the work, true).

But you guys were already investing a lot of time following maemo.org & ITt and doing community related stuff (GA's thousands of posts, timsamoff's UI Guidelines, Jaffa's http://www.maemopeople.org , qole's Debian advocacy, Kees' support in maemo-developers and Mamona... these are just a % of all what you did). And you keep being busy now that are council members, which is good. :)

But is all this busy-ness tied to the council membership? I don't think so, and this is why I think it's important to separate maemo.org sprints (where everybody can join and commit to a task) from pure council work (that only you 5 guys will do).

I claim 3-4h a week as an average is enough to be a good council member. Some weeks you get more work, some others there is less happening. [The number comes from the 1001 discussions in the GNOME Foundation board and other organizations where active and busy people are elected and can't avoid being more active and more busy...]

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

As long a qgil has brought up the subject of changes (and they all sound like a good idea to me), I'd like to propose a new referendum.

The latest rules that I can find for voting are the last referendum:
I propose this is amended to include anyone with with a talk.maemo.org (previously ITT) account or maemo.org account that is 3 months old with 10 karma.

It is only fair now that ITT is part of maemo.org (but currently requires a separate login) to grandfather these members in on the requirement of a 3 month old maemo.org account if their talk.maemo.org account is older than 3 months. They would still need a maemo.org login for karma and to prevent multiple voting (from both accounts).

I think that this is necessary to be explicitly stated to avoid confusion in the next council vote in September (potentially some members of talk.maemo.org might not register in time on maemo.org, the deadline for a 3 month old account is the end of May). This could prevent anyone who registers late on maemo.org from being prevented from voting.

Could one of the council members raise this issue, or direct me to when/where I can raise it officially?

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

This would be a topic for a new thread... or perhaps not if we can resolve it here in less than 3 posts.

Do we need a referendum for this? talk.maemo.org accounts ARE maemo.org accounts now. The only reason why they are not the same today is technical (complex, but purely technical).

Instead of pushing one referendum for such a basic question why not putting the brain and muscle in getting Task:Single sign-on for maemo.org done. Please discuss the details about this SSO in that thread.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

http://www.raiden.net/articles/inter...unity_council/

Just a little more info from my point of view (FWIW).

I like all of these proposed changes. Let's make them.

Tim

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

This sounds like it could contain the solution I am looking for, but only if that integration is a two way street.

For example: If when the mailing lists are used they in real time are posted to the forums. And if then the community could go to the forums and provide input, that would be then sent into the mailing lists.

This would let people continue to use their preferred form on communication, while still allowing more people to follow and provide input. This seems like the of both worlds, but this also seems like a lot of extra work over just using the forums for all Council communication.

However, if this is not possible, I would support dropping mailing lists as formal line of communication from the council, and move all council discussions to talk.maemo.org.

As for IRC this is dynamic real time way to communicate that cannot be replaced. I do propose a place on talk.maemo.org similar to this http://tablethacker.com/wp/?page_id=30&lang=en-us Giving user on the site an ability to see whats happening on the IRC without loading a client. Additionally greater visibility to scheduled IRC meeting.

I honestly believe the best way to keep this community together and continue to grow into a place where the community is setting the direction on policy is to give complete transparency with all council communications.

This allows the greater community to better judge what council members are doing. Being able to know what people are doing and how they see and talk about maemo is key to allowing the community to factually judge the council members job, compared to what they would like to see.

See as Quim points out, we are less concerned about your what your doing, like updating wiki's, and more concerned with the decisions and preferences regarding the greater community.

I understand that saying there is no transparency in council, is mostly not true. There some private communication, but for the most part things are done publicly. However some things are unclear and its hard to get a big picture when people need to follow several forms of communication to keep up with the same thing "maemo".

I appreciate the open lines of communication

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

As an aside, forums are generally frowned upon by developers/power users, who prefer email (or IRC for immediate discussion). One reason for this, imho, is that with email you can reply to a specific email and your archive/email software should know which one you were replying to and split the thread and display it as a load of branches depending on what you replied to. This is unlike the forum in which lots of sub-conversations go on all at once and it gets pretty painful once the thread grows to any significant size.

Now everyone's different, and you obviously prefer the forum style, but I don't think you will be able to persuade people that it is the best format. Integration is certainly a good thing if you prefer the interface though.

Just my 2p's worth.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Well I do not want to stop anyone from using a form of communication. However I see no reason why all council communication (related to council work) not work these council members do as a community member, can't be in ONE form of communication?

It's not that I prefer the forum style, it's that this is the biggest audience and therefor the best way to communicate with the community?

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

I think you are giving too much important to the council.

What decisions and preferences are these? What has the council decided? What preferences has the council expressed?

It's not the council who brought ITt to tmo or reorganized the forum.
It's not the council who decided to co-organize a hackfest with Mozilla.
It's not the council who decides where the next Maemo Summit will take place.
It's not the council who pushed Mer al Fremantle community edition.
It's not the council who decides the QA process for the extras repository.
It's not the council who decides whether School comes back or not, on wiki or video.
It's not the council who closed down the ITt wiki after moving the relevant bits to wiki.maemo.org.
It's not the council who decides whether the Brainstorm will be based on Midgard or Drupal.
It's not the council who decides that maemo.org has an orange-grey layout.
It's not the council who decides that the N810 ITt theme gets deprecated

(long etc)

Name more things that concern you and I bet you an Amsterdamer dinner that the council didn't decide that. Nor had a preference as council (their members individually sure, but not the team as a whole).

Yet they are aware and active in all these importants topics, triying to make sure the right things get done and pinging to Nokia when there is something that deserve special attention and dialog (e.g. Mer and the acceleration drivers).

All those tasks, discussions and decisions take place in the context of those projects, and the best the council can do is to summarize this activity in blog posts, push where needed, mediate where needed and ask for wider feedback when needed (feedback not for them personally, but for the projects working on something needing wider community attention).

Do you expect to find #maemo full of council discussions? Doesn't happen. Neither at maemo-community or (in normal circumstances) here in the Talk forum. And that's fine, the important stuff happens elsewhere on other topics. They are just meant to be facilitators, not the governors of the powers that be.

(Sorry for typing so much today - it's a boring raining Saturday in Helsinki... although now the sun is shining between the clouds).

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

About forum-list integration, yes the idea would be that some prefer mailing list, some forums but it doesn't matter since everybody share the same posts. No need to discuss this again (the previous time was only 3 days ago in another thread you started). :)

See the post from Reggie at Poll: How can i stay informed? Please Vote

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Quim there is no need to apologize, I enjoy the communication.

All I am trying to say, is that if I want to make an informed decision about what my council member is doing, it would be nice to have a single form of communication to follow (IRC excluded)

It is very clear to me, that council members preferences are heard louder within the maemo organization than standard users. As they should be, that is their roll. So if they are saying we need X, people are asking for Y. The community should have view and input into what they are representing, and if the community disagrees with what is done, they have recourse like voting.

Instead people end up making voting decisions based on non council related issues, and often feelings about people instead of facts on how they actually performed as a council member.

PS

It's rainy day here too :(

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Some of this was brought up in this thread, but this is really a separate topic. That is why I opened this thread, since that one went off onto this topic. The actual topic there, if you read the first post, was where and how should issues related to the greater community be communicated. So for hot topics that affect the community as a whole, where and how can these topics be given greater visibility to the larger community.

Where this discussion is how should normal communication come to and from council

So its really two separate discussions.

I still am unclear if the email integration is two way, if it is then, I said have at it, but it seems like more work, but if you can accommodate everyone, it would be the best of both worlds.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

See the reply I made to this point earlier. You lose people who don't use the forums when you move away from the mailing lists. Subscribing to a mailing list wont kill anybody.

I'm against a Java IRC client of a variety of reasons (one, in particular, is because your client has brought in a number of spammers I've had to kick from the channel on multiple occasions :)).

Openness and transparency has been our primary goal since the council's inception last year. This does not, however, mean that every single issue needs to be posted to a half-dozen different communications channels.

No, an absolute statement like that is completely untrue. :)

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

I'm not so sure. Each council member, former and present, was an active, influential community member before joining the council (and even before it existed), and I can't say I've seen any measurable difference in status since being voted in.

I'd say they were voted in due to their status, rather than the other way around.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

I blame qole and timsamoff. ;)

That's not what that line means. Rather, it means council-related tasks will be assigned and handled through the maemo.org sprints, not that the council members will get maemo.org tasks there (although that is true, too).

In order to be effective on the council, you have to be informed. Being informed takes time and it takes effort. Whether or not you take the time to make yourself informed when you're not on the council is immaterial. When you're on the council, you have to be. Your job as facilitator requires it.

If you're not informed about what's going on in the different sectors of the community, you can't possibly be expected to communicate this information around, or use it to help connect the right people on the right projects.

We decided to piggyback on the maemo.org sprints for council-related stuff to save time and energy.

That's 3-4 hours a week on top of whatever other activities you're doing (which makes it slightly more weighty than 3-4 hours alone). Nobody who isn't already investing time in the community is ever going to get elected to the council, and council work is going to add extra time (and stress) on top of your existing efforts.

Really, my real point is that it's not an easy position and not something anybody should consider taking on lightly. I really don't want to see the day when someone gets elected who was planning on investing no additional time or effort in the position.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

One thing the council and only the council did was to hire the new maemo.org debmaster. And that was not an easy task.

A public discussion and poll with all the candidates for the position doesn't sound like a good idea. It's one thing that made sense to delegate to the council as representatives of the community.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Sure, but this doesn't mean that all members need to follow all the channels and all the topics. Not doing that saves time and also forces yourselves to report better (to the rest of council members and the community) on what is really relevant in the areas you are focusing.

For instance, Kees is in maemo-devel mostly and he is barely in tmo. And that's totally fine, as long as he is able to summarize (e.g. in the council blog) what is going on from a developer point of view.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

So your afraid to lose a few people at the risk of involving many more people. It seems like if they are going to participate, the form that communication comes in would not stop them. Additionally, IS THIS TWO WAY INTEGRATION? If so, this is not really a problem, this will solve my gripe :rolleyes:

Well, it seems like this could be integrated into the login ID and only available to the users that login? Even if the login was not integrated, just making that page only available to logged in user would work too?

And nobody thinks they should, but specific formal communication to me, should come in one form, in one place, making it easier for the USER community to follow


I will just leave this alone, for fear of going off topic ;)

All this said, not everyone one needs to be told everything, but if there is a single place to go, to see formal council communication I fail to see how this is a bad thing. So I go to talk, click on council, then, have some breakouts, development, community involvment, whatever. Then larger user community could have visibility into the topics and contribute easily in one place.


Additionally wouldn't it be easier for council to just use one form for official communication?

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Great read. Even while I continue to remain skeptical, I find your level headed optimism infectious.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

On this note, can you please learn how to use quotes so I can actually respond to your points?

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

That's why God invented copy and paste. :p

You mean to make it EASIER to respond to his points.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

penguinbait doesn't want to be inconvenienced by mailing lists, I don't want to be inconvenienced by having to format his posts for him so I can respond to them.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

I fixed that for you, now lets please not start going down this path, WE have been doing so well today ;)

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

The same goes for the people here and the lists. This isn't a one-sided issue.

That's the plan, yes, but there are technical hurdles here that I haven't yet discussed with the people who are likely to be implementing it, so I don't know whether they can be overcome. . . .

Sure, that might be an option, but that doesn't help much on the Freenode side of things.

Then why isn't -community an option? ;)

Not really, no, it's easiest to communicate wherever you happen to feel like communicating at that moment.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

If you say all formal communication goes on through the lists, fine, but your saying we want formal communicat to go on at X Y Z at any time, follow all or don't?,

If everyone who wanted to help joined the mailing lists, then nobody will be talking on the forum.

Great so why are we debating this? Please can you identify how this will happen, who the players are? is it just Reggie? What technical hurdles are involved and do we expertise within the community to help move this forward? These are the things I want to hear, and if they are happening, how can we give greater visibility to these type of things to help them get accomplished faster?

Not sure what you mean, can you elaborate?

It's not that community isn't an option, mailing lists are options, forums are options. It seems to me that the forums are visited by the most people and therefore the best way to communicate to the most people. Thats all I am saying. I am not saying -community is not option.


Fair enough, but that does not make it easy for others to follow, unless they follow all the forms of communication available. That however seems to me to be a full time job.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

I must admit, I could stand to listen to the same advice occasionally

Yes occasionally ;)

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Up until last year I was really bad about not following my own advice there. Let's say I recently had a huge epiphany. A life-changing moment. Now that I am eating my own dog food, it's very freeing. :D

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Interesting, do we have some numbers to put to this? How many active members of ITT vs active members of the mailing lists?

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

No, because beyond the intention to do it the technical details have not yet been hashed out. :)

There will be a lot of collision between Talk usernames and Freenode usernames and a reasonable way of working this out is needed.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Yes please share that info... I'll say it again to anyone who will listen. I am a member and I contribute to this forum because it works. I joined maemo.org and then the Garage in order to report a bug 2 years ago, The bug was fixed 3 updates and a version change later, it was also closed at least once without resolution.

When I first went to the site 2 years ago my browser would report that the sites web certificates were not up to date or bogus. I would have to disable my browsers security policy every time I visited the maemo.org or Garage sites.
To me it appeared that you guys just didn't care.
After 2 years some of these problems still exist. qgil pointed me to a thread that was opened now that we are all one big happy family. I posted about maemo.org's cookie handling and was pointed to a bug that I could vote on...
After 2 years you guys are still voting on something as important to your image as how your website behaves?

So yes, I have often wondered how many people felt that disabling their browsers security settings wasn't worth it... If I didn't have a bug to report, I know I wouldn't have bothered... and until the recent aquisition I hadn't been back since.

BTW, the link I was directed to is broken. :)
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=285974&postcount=6
Is there another system in place to report that?

My question to the Council would be this:

If a thread was posted on the forum proposing that IRC should be changed or even discontinued and the consensus of the forum members was "Yes" would the forum only response have as much weight as an IRC only one?

I hope the answer is no to either scenario. I also hope that the Council remembers that this was not always the case.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

That's a link to a single post. If you want to see the tread the post is from, click the link in the upper right hand corner.

If you are referring to the Bug link in the post, take the space after the single slash out of that link.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Either way the bug 2085 link takes me to:

I also realize that it could be a forum bug that truncates long url's but still, it was ironic.

https://bugs.maemo.org/%20show_bug.cgi?id=2085

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

I edited my message to add:

If you are referring to the Bug link in the post (which you are), take the space after the single slash out of that link.

Re: What role does the Maemo Community Council's play?
 

Let's make something clear: The people who were running maemo.org 2 years ago are not the same people running it today.

2 years ago, maemo.org was Nokia owned and operated, now it is community owned and operated

Huh? We don't own Freenode, and we don't have control over what they do with their network. Besides, this is really a rather weak dilemma since nobody is proposing discontinuing anything.

As for changes, proposals about Talk all end up going through Reggie (the owner and operator). He is the ultimate decider here.