"Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

http://www.joeydevilla.com/2009/05/2...netbooks-suck/

Apart from the annoying fast food comparisons, what do you think about the basic point of the article?

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

About as stupid as can be expected from someone who's into fast food gourmet comparisons...

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

2 reasons this article sucks (technically 3)

1. too metaphorical. dude needs to come out say it.

2. no mid's or NITs on his scale.

and finally, because he used a picture of skinny Shatner, when everybody knows that fat Shatner [or Fatner (TM)] pwnz.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

It's going to be a long time before users prefer their mobile phones for typing letters to a full-sized (or almost full-sized) keyboard. And it will be a long time before users prefer to watch movies on cell phones. Sure, these can be overcome eventually by some kind of technology, but I think that eventually computers will be everywhere and you won't need a mobile phone except when backpacking or something like that.

Here is a saying that you can attribute to me and send it in to wherever you send immortal sayings to: "All technology is transitional."

I think that the idea of someone texting while walking down the street is fairly absurd, even though people do it. I used to read books while walking down the street, and that was absurd too.

The typical person walking down the street is at most listening to something, and I think that will continue to be typical for many decades. People who are driving cars already have computers with them and will get more.

Mobile phones are just a transitional technology.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Of course being tablet fans, thats a great device to have. I don't know why some people can't see the potential, but there is a place for bigger tablets/netbooks.

A tablet is like a fiction book actually. It's not perfectly pocketable, but it's not as big as a dictionary or an encyclopedia. If you want to read something entertaining you take it with you, on the couch, in the cafe, under a tree, in the train... But if you want to do some serious work you need a big and heavy dictionary or encyclopedia or something - that's the laptop. You can take the laptop to those places also, but it's heavier, bulkier, warms your lap and some cafe tables are just too small.

The smartphone is for doing things while walking, standing or generaly while you're mobile (duh). It's like those free newspapers that are handed over at bus stations. You get your fix while on the move, but it's not that good as having a real book and certainly can't get much information like from a big reference book.

So there you have it, with this book analogy you can very easy see where the usecases are for smartphones, tablets, laptops.

Hahaha well aren't netbooks today just another category of laptops already. What separates netbooks from laptops now except size? And if tomorrow they start to make smaller laptops aren't those just going to be netbooks? It's just a marketing trick to set them apart, but I don't see anyone that does more on the computer than surf the web or email, to use only a "smaller laptop thats not a netbook".

lol @ "Monarch Burger and Jester Burger" :D

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Price :-)

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Nah, old laptops that are as powerful or even more powerful than todays netbooks can be bought very cheap. And there are new expensive netbooks that sometimes cost as much as a normal laptop.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Yeah, until recently you could buy a decent 8-9" machine for ~200 quid (we have a couple here). Now everyone seems to be pushing 12" monsters for twice the price, which is totally missing the point of what made the device class popular in the first place :-|

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

It shows that a lot of people are clueless where to put that netbook thingy marketwise.
It's actually very simple, look where people read a book and that's the same usecase where people will use a netbook/tablet. Both are the same formfactor and both need some more attention compared to texting or twittering that you'd do with your smartphone.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

I recently bought an Acer 9" for under £200. It's more powerful than my current home desktop PC, more portable, has a usable keyboard, and connects to my 19" LCD monitor to give me a good resolution when I need it. Hell, it runs quicker than my new work ThinkPad, but that's mostly because it runs Linux nor Windows. If you want a desktop replacement from your laptop, then buy a desktop.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

The article makes an implicit claim that netbooks can't do what most people do with their laptops.

Sure, it doesn't run Photoshop and you can't write a novel on it and it won't run shiny OS X flyout effects. But that's not what netbook buyers would use a laptop for, anyway.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

The author is correct by making the notion that the target audience is a bit unclear - but fails to see that a netbook is not a *cross between* a smartphone and a notebook, except for maybe size and form factor. The point is, if I wanted a truly portable notebook I had to shell out lot$ of fund$ to get an ultraportable, which I would use for very-very menial tasks (like the occasional document, web, skype, etc) when on the go. So, it's not smartphone vs notebook. It's notebook without the bulk and cost. Of course you don't want to type or surf 8 hours on it or compile Qt. For those puroposes you DO HAVE an alternative, you just need to add a 1000$ to get it in the same form factor.

In other words (when we are throwing analogies at each other), the author tries to analyse a bobcat excavator is comparing it to a Krupp Bagger and a Trowel. Fair enough, he concludes that the bobcat sucks both as a Bager and as a trowel. Except he has no use (or idea of the use) of a bobcat excavator.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Whaaaaat!? We got to the second page without a car analogy?! :D

Ok here it is:

Smartphone - city scooter - it's small, fast, you can escape the trafic, can park it where ever you want, it's fuel efficient.

Tablet - small car (Smart, Mini Cooper) - it's not as mobile as the scooter, but still small enough to park almost everywhere (even sideways), it's still very fuel efficient compared to the SUV, you can take a second person easily or some luggage, it's safer to be inside a vehicle in case of an accident.

Laptop - SUV - big, expensive, eats up a lot of fuel, it's difficult to drive it or park it in the city, but you can drive it even offroads, can transport 5 people and lots of luggage, very safe because of size.

But the book analogy is spot on anyways, because it shows exactly 1:1 the usecases. ;)

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

I like the way the blogger thinks, but he's wrong about the netbook. Unlike Monarch Burger's "apple pie", it hasn't been a flop.

I personally don't see the point of Big Heavy Expensive Laptops at all. My "zone of suck" is all in the right side of his chart. If you must lug something bigger than a tablet around with you, buy something small and light, like a netbook, for those times when there isn't a computer nearby. The rest of the time, use full sit-down desktop computers.

And don't give me this "I need a full laptop because I want to do my work in a cafe" crap. Either use a tablet / netbook / smartphone or go home and do your work there. Stop sitting there all alone at a table with an empty coffee cup and your giant laptop. Cafes are for socializing with real people, or at least watching other people. Not for staring into your computer for hours.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

I bought a netbook and it utterly failed to displace my tablet in any way shape or form. Currently it's sitting on the kitchen counter as a recipe machine.

If it's not pocketable, it aint worth the hassle.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

The article really is to metaphorical. And, by trying to stay metaphorical, it ignores a number of points....


I can only speak for myself, but I have found a number of use cases for, well, eletronical devices with a graphical user interface that are able to install and run third party applications. (is this abstract enough?) - plus: i have found a number of devices i don't have a use case for. And what should I say? My own experience differs a lot from whats in the article.

Device #1: Desktop PC
Most of the time I work there. No restrictions, everything goes, cool.

Device #2: MID or tablet
small, 4"-5" touch screen device that's a morning paper on the toilet, a movie player on the train and my blogging/voip device when i'm on holiday. restrictions because of size and clumsy touch screen technology, but otherwise fine.

Device #3: phone
very small, 2.2", lightweight, non-touchscreen device for - oh, making phone calls. it also is a low-quality camera (incl. video), navigation device and gets me online (mail+web) if i need quick information, but don't really want to surf for a longer period of time. restricted maybe, but actually it doesn't feel like it because everything it does beyond phone+text messaging is luxury. Main point: the "always with me, don't care if i lose it"-device.

Device #4: mini-laptop or netbook
stricly in bed or on the couch. usually nothing but surfing. when a tablet/MID is too small or (especially) when its text input there is too slow/clumsy. only few restricions compared to PC, only everythings smaller.


So, this is what I have and use and need. I would replace any of these devices if they break twoday. But there's other devices I wouldn't buy because I don't need them:

Standard Laptop:
Too big and expensive. Not comfortable enough for me to use on the couch, not good enough to replace desktop... Simply not worth having one.

Brick-Size Smartphone:
Brick-size (which means something like: more than 120g in weight) smart phones are not what I look for in phones. I want phones smaller. Also, I don't want touchscreens: I want one-handed use with the tactile feedback of real keys.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

If you bought a bobcat to replace the krupp bagger, then it's not exactly a suprise it didn't displace it. Today's netbooks are not notebook replacements, although in some cases they can serve as such (just as my NIT does). The author of TFA fails to see that, too.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

i would say one can, if one can live without fancy stuff like automatic spell checking ;)

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

heh, got something of the same issue here, picked up a eeepc 900 from a shelf clearing sale, and beyond keeping the eeebuntu updated (xandros did maybe survive 24 hours) im not really using it much...

still, the biggest issue with it right now is battery life, as its celeron powered, im looking at maybe 3 hours. so im planning to get a bigger third party battery to see if that can make it more "mobile".

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

I didn't buy it as a laptop replacement. That's why I have a desktop. :rolleyes:

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Hmmm ... sorry but :

Photoshop can run on a netbook.
Some netbooks have very good keyboard, enough to write a novel.
Some netbooks actually runs OSX perfectly, with all the effects.

I believe that for most people with light computer needs, a netbook is enough.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Bah, the article completely disregards the way the pies at Jester Burger have shrunk over time in order to maintain their price point. They're now the size of Fig Newtons and completely uninteresting because of it.

I won't mention that though, because people will take it as a metaphor for something else, and we already have enough threads about something else.

Instead, I'll just note that the pies at Jester Burger are no longer served at a temperature approximately equal to that of the surface of the sun. I'm not sure what that has to do with mobiles, netbooks, or notebooks, but I think that it indicates a disappointing trend in modern society.

And upon further reflection, maybe I will like those Intel-powered phones that will be available in a few years.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

s/Photoshop/Visual Studio and Eclipse/
s/can't/won't want/
s/OS X flyout effects/Vista/

I actually agreed with your last statement...?

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Qviri ... sorry, i don't understand what you mean by
s/...
s/...
s/...

i'm not a native English speaker, and not a native geek speaker
;)

OSX runs with all the effects, at least on my Lenovo S10 (or there is some more effect on my macbook unibody ... that i never noticed).

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

It's not English; it's geek. It's a command to select old text and replace it with new.

s/old text/new text/

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

I see what you're doing there.

I have often thought that the environmentally conscious among us should be figuring out ways to heat our houses with the heat generated from desktop CPUs and GPUs, or at least figure out some way to capture that heat and use it, maybe make a small steam engine to power USB devices or something?

The fan on my high-end nVidia video card stopped spinning last year. In the absence of any active cooling technology, the fan then simply melted off of the card.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

This makes no sense to me, it must be some kind of joke I don't get. I'm referring to the "you can't write a novel on it."

(a) people wrote novels for some time without computers, and you can't write a novel on a netbook? I guess you can write a novel on just about anything.

(b) Someone later says that you don't need fancy stuff like spellcheck. What netbook is it that doesn't have spellcheck?

I was an editor for many years, and I could have done all the stuff I normally did as an editor on my netbook.

I suppose everyone has amnesia; they don't remember the many years in which you paid extra for small computers, and yet people did buy them -- I had a Dell Latitude, for example (and still do, but I never use it now, because my Asus 1000h runs so much cooler and better). Then someone actually started selling small for cheap! Of course people bought them.

How many people have written novels on their N800s and N810s, by the way? I bet a lot more people have worked on their novels on netbooks. I don't recall one single person here in the messages ever mentioning working on their novel on a Nokia tablet. Isn't that odd... If I'm wrong, please point the message out to me!

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

I wrote long essays on my Commodore 64...

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

geeks write code, not novels ;)

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

geneven: The "can't write a novel" argument is based on the alleged impossibility of touch-typing on a small keyboard, and the assumption that touch-typing is essential to novel-writing, not (AFAIK) on performance issues. I don't really consider either of these valid, but I can't touch-type or write a novel (with or without a netbook), so how would I know....


Ensuring that your computer is inside the house, and is cooled by circulating room air through it, rather than, say, ducted to a wall, is sufficient to heat your house with it.:p Using a heat engine to recover some of it as useful work is a little harder.

In general, all wasted energy from electrical equipment contributes to heating. This also means, in cold enough climates, there's greatly reduced benefit to more efficient lighting, power supplies, or anything else. But for those of us where it gets warm in the summer, inefficiency can be doubly bad -- we use extra power, and then use more power dumping the heat through the A/C. While the payoff period is probably in the decades, waste-heat power generation from desktop computers could actually make sense for us.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

On the same note I have a M1330 Dell laptop and the majority of the time, email, web-browsing e.t.c occur on my iMac and I'm a Linux lover.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Thanks.

(a) I touch-type on my netbook every day. It boggles my mind that anyone here is ignorant enough about netbooks to think that this is impossible.

(b) Someone actually claims to touch-type on their N810, btw -- it's in one of the threads!

(c) Someone once claimed to have written a novel with texting only, on a mobile phone. This was in the main stream media.

My netbook runs way too cool to be of any help in heating my house. It's not warm to the touch. I can sit it on my bed for 24 hours without it overheating.

My Dell Latitude D800 on the other hand, would be very useful as a housewarmer, and might double as an egg-cooker. It's about the size of a netbook but cost about four times as much (because I got a really good deal, in Moscow).

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Netbook rocks !

(another futile post by Totololo the little Totoro)

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

I'll amend that as the other part of my web browsing is on the ipod touch and again, I'm a Linux fanatic of more that 14 years!

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

Seeing as how I am reading the forum and writing this reply from my hotel room with wired internet on an "old" eeepc8G (7 in screen 800x480 display) and my n810 is sitting on my hotel dresser, I would have to say that netbooks *don't* suck.

My netbook has replaced my relatively light-weight work laptop for travel, but my n810, while I take it everywhere, has not replaced my netbook.

When a reasonably priced pocketable device can run openoffice and firefox at reasonable speeds and work well with a citrix client so that I can run my work apps remotely then maybe it can replace my netbook -- and I have what is now considered a rather low end netbook.

I am looking forward to the OpenPandora or a new maemo device to free me from my netbook on travel.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

I haven't laughed that hard in a while, thanks.

I can't speak for Jester Burger, but at McDonalds, that's why you always buy the sundae. You take your spork and jam hot pie pieces into the ice cream.

Also, thanks to the author for giving us something to talk about by being totally out-to-lunch. I use to always buy the smallest, lightest laptop I could find and it was always twice as expensive as the company's cheapest offering. All hail the netbook and the slot it fills in the expanding devicescape.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

I have written at least two chapters of a novel I'm writing for the magazine of our local health agency on my n810 plus Dell foldable bluetooth keyboard.

Neither netbooks nor tablets-as-we-know-them-by-now stay into the suck zone. In my very humble opinion, iphones and >=14" laptops do *suck* - the former are mobile but not powerful enough, the latter do everything but you won't carry them everywhere.

See the point?

I don't want, I really don't want think of the new coming maemo device as a genie-in-a-box without a way to open that box (without a proper keyboard which sports all the chars I need for my language and for interacting with a terminal; without directional arrows to move and scroll into text; without copy/paste, an exhilarating idiocy which has plagued all the recent symbian s60 browsers after series 80 was discontinued; without a screen I can read, without a way to run Debian or Ubuntu, and so on).

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

My netbook has pretty much eliminated my need for a laptop. No, I can't run my tf2 or my ps2 emulators, but those would require battery guzzling overweight laptops for playable speeds anyways. There's something to be said for a laptop that only weighs 2 1/2 lbs. making it obscenely easy to carry in one hand and virtually unnoticeable in a backpack

Let me know when a smartphone can
Output to VGA (presentations / streaming netflix)
Provide me with a touch-typeable keyboard (I can type at around 80% of my normal typing speed on my 900HA) for typing up essays
Easily handle 10+ tabs in a full internet browser - normal usage for me
Crack WEP passwords (yes, I occasionally leech off of others' connections, no, not usually more than 5MB for looking something up - sue me)
Give me 160GB of storage
Do moderately advanced image and video editing (by no means adequate for a professional of that field, but definitely enough for, say, a video for a school project, or some quick work in photoshop / GIMP
Sync my MP3 players
Emulate N64 / PSX / (most) MAME - load up my old copy of OOT or play a rousing game of Marvel VS Capcom with a friend
Create a usb boot disk to recover your desktop
Print

A netbook is what a laptop should be - portable

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

be used with your favorite Linux distro instead of the crap that it came with.

Re: "Fast Food Apple Pies and Why Netbooks Suck"
 

I think he wasted a lot of time and internet real estate to say:

yawn.