Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Quote:

>> http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/contribute...ia_brainstorm/

A supurb new addition to maemo.org, IMHO.
Thank You Henri. :)

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

We'll have a Council post on this soon as well. In the meantime, please add your ideas to the "storm"!

Tim

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Users tend to file solutions as problems into maemo.org brainstorm

Ha! So true, right from the start, there's already a couple of solutions filed as problems.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

"Official" post:

http://maemo.org/community/council/maemo_brainstorm/

Tim

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Is milhouse still around? Is he a nokia employee now?

Haven't seen him for a while.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Not really sure. I didn't make the list.

Tim

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

My pleasure :-)

There is now also a screencast available introducing Maemo Brainstorm.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Wow nice! Maybe I should add a 'Active Brainstorms' under 'Active Topics' here at Talk. Henri, any way you can create a page that I can just do an 'include' via php?

Btw, I suggest that 'Solution' should be changed to 'Proposal' or 'Suggestion'. Another suggestion is a way to comment for a specific solution and then a way to view all comments.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Yeah, should be fairly easy. I'll look at it with Oskari when we have a bit of time (right now quite occupied with Qaiku and Midgard2).

I think there was a bit of discussion on the community list about that. However, would probably be better to handle as a Bugzilla ticket.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Now we also have a screencast about how Brainstorm moderation works.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

So... time to start moderating? How to start?

For instance, http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...ssaging_client is DONE in Fremantle, but without any of the solutions proposed. Should be put under "In development"? Should the idea with the actual implementation be listed?

http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/pim_support is too vague and it's already "Under consideration" with several ideas and votes. Who decides whether it should be closed as invalid or should be ammended? Some aspects are fixed in Fremantle as well.

http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...-and_messaging is too vague and has still no solution but since it's still in a Sandbox is it enough to comment and expect the poster to ammend?

And there is probably some cleaning to do, since some entries were introduced are test... or weren't they?

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Needs the ability to edit submissions by original authors... PLEASE!!!

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Isn't this working already? Have you tried submitting a proposal or an idea and submitting it afterward?

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

I added to a topic and saw afterward that I didn't need to preface it with a number... and can't see how to edit the subject line of my addition now.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Try going to the page as signed in user and then click on the floating bar. You should find an Edit option there.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Please let's start pushing the Maemo Brainstorm seriously. Put in brief, any clever idea should make it there since that is the best place to polish ideas, evaluate them and support them with your votes. Remember that this tool has been designed as an interface with the Maemo Devices product managers, even if it can be used for any kind of feature requests.

If you see a good idea in a thread here please ask the poster to submit it to the Maemo Brainstorm.

We need real users, sporadic and frequent, to polish the tool. For instance, now that I'm using it daily it's clear that it needs a way to show what is new and to notify changes in the proposals or areas I'm most interested.

What about stop accepting new feature requests at bugs.maemo.org and even start moving the existing requests when it makes sense?

And for those knowing about this Brainstorm for the first time: please ask any question you have. Any advice is welcome!

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

So then... Brainstorm is THE official conduit for getting product (whatever that may be) ideas up to those who *can* possibly implement them?

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Let's talk more about efficiency than official status. If our product managers, lead developers and UI designers would need to follow Talk to find the cool ideas embedded in lengthy threads then we wouldn't have much time left to actually implement them. :)

Even for the users actualling willing to have the features discussed it's difficult to find, follow and be active here. Talk is great for ignition and quick contrast of ideas but there is too much good ideas that are somehow lost and difficult to recover few months later.

Instead, following the Multimedia area if you are into multimedia helping directly drafting and voting the ideas there sounds like a much more efficient investment of your time for those features you really want to push.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

While I agree with your sentiment about effective focus, I also think that unless people believe there is a useful receptacle for their contributions they may be disinclined to put forth the effort.

After all, weren't you the one commenting on my community engagement feedback request about specific actions? ;)

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

The product planning team is ready to follow the Brainstorm. My only objection to call it "THE OFFICIAL" feedback channel is that people might think that Nokia doesn't do anything else to get feedback (sounds simplistic if you have the lightest idea of how these companies work, but apparently there is a % of people that think "Nokia doesn't listen" unless you have a Nokia employee active in the thread or blog post where the proposal or rant is made).

brainstorm.maemo.org (looking forward for this subdomain, as discussed) must have the same status than bugs.maemo.org. Counting that bugs.maemo.org is being increasingly useful as a feedback channel for bug reporting.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

great idea -how about finishing off the apps for the nokia n810 and n800 before hopping to the next new shiny best thing

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Understood, but I was meaning in the context of this site.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

That's why I sent an email about differentiating between Brainstorm and Bugzilla more clearly when Brainstorm started - for me it's that desktop-wide, non-app-specific requests go to Brainstorm, while app-specific feature requests end up in Bugzilla.

I hope that everybody else also thinks like this, if not please tell & let's discuss. :-)

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

I agree with Andre. Basically if it's a proposal not based on any existing buggable flaw, by default it should be a Brainstorm event.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

I do believe proposals specific to a single application should also be discussed in tghe Brainstorm, unless they are simple fixes closer to a bug than anything else and actually taking less time to fix than discuss.

For instace, I think this request about the Email client makes sense in Brainstorm

http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...n_imap_server/

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

I also agree with Andre, specific enhancement requests belong in bugzilla while things that are not very clear cut should go through brainstorm first.

Good example :-) There really isn't much to brainstorm about this - it's a specific enhancement request about a well understood feature that nearly every other IMAP client has, so it should be (is actually) in bugzilla. The proposed "solutions" (arguing about who implements it or suggesting the use of alternative clients) make this all the more evident IMHO.

On the other hand, here's an example of something much more fuzzy and complex (that I would have submitted to brainstorm if I had even a single idea about how to approach it that didn't suck :-/ ).

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

But, but... the whole thing started because we concluded that bugzilla was too frightening for users, even for those with good ideas. http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ was taken as inspiration.

In the setting you are proposing things turn to be even more complicated: most users come up with ideas relative to one specific app so anyway they would be directed to bugzilla, but now they have one degree more of difficulty by figuring out whether their idea is actually beef for the Brainstorm.

No wonder if they end up throwing whatever proposal to Talk, as it happens now.

Also, what about the feature jar: will we need to pay attention to double rankings now?

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Bugzilla is not a realistic way for ordinary users to propose any kind of suggestion, specific or otherwise. It's far too complicated. It's fine for professionals and hobbyists but average users who just want to get a specific gripe off their chest need to have some easier way of doing so.

Brainstorm is a much more plausible way of gathering user feedback from a wide range of users.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Developers and power users will typically know to go to Bugzilla with bugs, enhancements and extensions. General users by default should be routed to Brainstorm by "suggestion boxes" that are easy to find (ie, placed in highly contextual situations). If any developers or power users see that a Brainstorm item should be in Bugzilla, then they escalate/repurpose it accordingly.

Simple enough, right?

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Yep, sounds sensible. The problem is making sure the workflow makes this easy for the moderators. But the current brainstorm implementation (a home-grown solution based on midgard) doesn't (AFAICT).

Users need some clear guidance as to how to use it (not technically, but the workflow/what's expected of them/what it's for); existing problems need to be more prominent than creating new ones as that's an easier way in for users (which is why Brainstorm is better than Bugzilla).

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Hm ok, maybe I misunderstood the purpose then. The name suggested (to me) that it's a place to submit, discuss and hone ideas that would be entered and dealt with in bugzilla once they're mature enough. They would need to be handled in some bug tracker once it's time for developers to have a go at them, and please don't let them disappear into the internal Nokia one never to be seen again.

Does brainstorm solve the frightening users problem (honest question, I don't think I'm able to put myself in a "user"'s shoes)? I think the biggest complaint about bug trackers in general is the requirement for registration. Once past that hurdle, filling in one form on a web page seems just as hard as another. The only real problem I can see is that it can be tricky to select the right product/component sometimes, but that's what the bugsquad is for. Is there anything else that puts users off?

But note that bugs.launchpad.net still handles specific requests that would be considered enhancements in bugs.maemo.org.

That's fine, it's the idea that has to be specific rather than the package it applies to. So "Drafts & Sent on IMAP server" is a specific idea that belongs in bugzilla, while something like "multiple identities" is open-ended (and bug 3409 only deals with some possible ways of satisfying this) thus better suited for brainstorm.

It's a double-edged sword. In many cases the line between bug and enhancement is very fine, and we see requests moving between the two regularly. This is non-disruptive and easy while it's just a one field change in bugzilla, but is going to be a problem if they have to be migrated across to a different system.

Well, if we have multiple channels for user requests then it follows that we need to pay attention to all of them...

I guess I don't have any answers, but I wouldn't like to see enhancements taken out of bugzilla completely.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Ideally every facet of maemo.org should rely on single signon. Currently I think I'm dealing with 4 but it's my understanding that issue is being addressed... which is good because as Ima notes it's important for casual users who will feel led to participate at a higher-than-usual level.

Jaffa's point about workflow is excrutiatingly important and illustrates why a thorough site map is critical.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Four? I think we're at three:

1. garage.maemo.org/maemo.org/wiki.maemo.org
2. talk.maemo.org
3. bugs.maemo.org

But even with the places which share sign-ons, it's not single sign-on as I have to log in to each one (sometimes repeatably for the simple act of favourting an item in /news/)

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Ah, you're right, 3 it is.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

I think the concept of Brainstorm is great. It can be really efficient if there is an organized way of adding stuff in there, and not just have anyone say 'add this feature because *I* need it.' It must be presented better, if it will be an official 'suggestion source' for the Nokia Maemo team.

I think the first thing that needs to happen is for end-users to get their N900s. Then, maemo.org can hold like a monthly or quarterly community meeting to solicit suggestions. This will be the source to add a handful of suggestions to Brainstorm for each community meeting.

With regards to the community meeting, a more end-user-friendly online service should be used (that means not on IRC). Someone moderates, polls are pushed, etc. To attract attendees, local blogs should remind everyone about the online meeting.

After the meeting, someone assigned will add the suggestions to Brainstorm together with a short list of proposed solutions.

Lastly, a post on News need to be made on what was added.

Another missing component is a way the Maemo team can communicate the status on brainstorm items. Status can be something like investigating, under development, approved, rejected, etc.

Being open and more organized I think is the way to go.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

Ok, I have a question. For a long time, months and months, and perhaps still now, the version of FBreader available here was obsolete -- to get the decent version you had to go to the FBreader site -- otherwise you got a version that didn't download automatically from Project Gutenberg.

I pointed this out at least twice in my usual undiplomatic manner in Talk and no one paid any attention and didn't fix it.

In the current situation, what should I do with such a problem/question/suggestion?

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

First step: email the package maintainer:

http://maemo.org/packages/view/fbreader/

Then, if you don't get a satisfactory (or any) response, start asking the community for someone else to take over maintaining it.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

I thinfk the first thing that needs to happen is that you all agree what do you want to do with the Brainstorm and start exercising. Then when end-users get their N800s and come here there is some process already running to which is easy to adhere.

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

The only problem now is what to put there, as no one has a N900 yet. Should we start having developers add technical brainstorm suggestions there, or should we start adding items there based on the demos we've seen on YouTube?

Re: Contribute your Maemo ideas via Brainstorm
 

How about changing the article of that description from "THE OFFICIAL" to "AN OFFICIAL."