A faster N810??
 

I have seen how many people are complaining about the processing speed of the N810, so I came up with an idea that may be completely stupid, but just might work. I was thinking that it could be possible to take out the TI OMAP2420 processor and put in a faster one in its place.
Some possible problems could be that the new processor would not work with the OS or the software out there or it might not even work with the N810. I just wanted to know if this is a possible solution to the speed problem and help some things like the internet browser, or is it just way to much trouble for something that wouldn't do much.

Re: A faster N810??
 

Way too much trouble to unsolder and then resolder a new one.

Re: A faster N810??
 

That's pretty much unobtainable for a couple of reasons.

The OMAP2 parts are BGA (ball grid array). Unsoldering and soldering a different part in takes some pretty specialized equipment.

If you could overcome this problem, then you would need a pin compatible part. Veiwing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAP shows this isn't something available from TI at this point in time.

Frank

Re: A faster N810??
 

That totally sucks.

Re: A faster N810??
 

Yeah, you'd have to more or less re-engineer a whole new n810 in order to do what you want to do, and if you did, you'd just end up with a unicated version of the next tablet anyways, so why bother? Just enjoy the n810 the way it is, and when the next one comes around, upgrade.

Re: A faster N810??
 

Could we at least add ram to it?

Re: A faster N810??
 

We should start our own openInternetTablet device like the pandora guys.

Re: A faster N810??
 

Go for it. :)

Tim

Re: A faster N810??
 

Actually, if the next "nokia Internet Tablet" ends up ONLY being able to be purchased as a phone, I would like to see someone make an alternative version that isn't a phone. Nokia's pretty much pandering to get into the Iphone market.

Re: A faster N810??
 

Yeah these are extremely embedded devices so you don't expect any kind of upgradeability, you just have to be grateful for what we do have:

* full-size sd => mini-sd adapter or full-size sd => micro-sd => mini-sd adapters.
* USB OTG cables
* DIY accelerometer
* 3rd party usb chargers

not to mention all the amazing software "hacks"

The openpandora project can certainly be looked at as the next internet tablet. It has an OMAP3 processor, graphics that support opengl 2 and more. Personally the only issue I have with it is that it's a clamshell form factor and the screen isn't rotate-able : which makes it hard to use while walking plus no portrait mode. Of course it runs Linux and even a custom window manager ala Maemo's hildon.

I've had similar thoughts with my NAS but anything with an ARM architecture (and keep in mind pretty much all ARM processors are different so no compatibility) everything has to be compiled against that particular processor.

Hopefully Nokia doesn't disappoint with the N810s successor (the N97s specs make me optimistic).

Re: A faster N810??
 

Hardly. It's just one of the realities of miniaturization and cost reduction. Sure, you could have a device that would let you swap components, but it would cost at least 50% more and be at least 50% bigger (likely more).

What do you gain for trading upgradeability? Smaller, more inexpensive devices.

Re: A faster N810??
 

Hardly. armv5 binaries works just fine on armv7 CPUs. Backwards compatibility is strong, problems crop up when you try to use features on newer instruction sets (like the NEON SIMD available in armv7) on older hardware which does not provide the required features.

It's no different than x86, really.

Re: A faster N810??
 

I think it's more software related - you do do have a little more platform diversity which can give a little headache not usually present on most x86 - like endianness, uclibc, thumb related stuff, so it's not always that easy, but the general principle IS the same.

Re: A faster N810??
 

I would love to see some hardware hackers build an open Internet Tablet device that could run Maemo or Mer... I would buy one, especially if it is the N800 form factor with faster hardware inside.

But having seen the problems that the Pandora guys have been encountering, I think it's a safe bet that nobody's going to do it. :(

I think you have to be a Big Company to be able to pull off something like that.

Re: A faster N810??
 

Especially once (if?) Pandora does come through; at that point, there's already one open Maemo-capable machine, which will nearly saturate the market, but the hurdles for anyone else to launch a new one would be the same.

OTOH, the Pandora guys might be in a position to release the same thing in a different form-factor; IMHO it could be based on the same circuit-board, screen, etc., just a different case mainly (and less components). Unfortunately, as a gaming-centric operation, they're not likely to pursue that option...

Re: A faster N810??
 

I don't think they'll bother with other form factors for the simple reason that those of us who desire a tablet are probably going to say, "good enough," with either the Pandora or the N900. Sure, we'd want a tablet, but not that much. If told that you can buy a clamshell (Pandora) or slider smartphone (alleged N900) now, or wait another 9 months or more for a tablet, what would you do?

Yeah, me too.

Re: A faster N810??
 

And If you have the equipment to replace BGA soldered chips I know a few thousand Palm T|X owners that may want to have a word with you :)

Re: A faster N810??
 

I'd wait and keep using my N800. I'm not a gamer and Pandora is way too big for what I want. And I don't want no phone. You too, qole? ;) I have to admit I'm surprised! :D

Re: A faster N810??
 

GeraldKo:

Well, I was talking about those of us who want a tablet but want something faster. (That's what the thread is about.) But you know that, you're just teasing.

I agree with your assessments of the two form factors, especially since I'm not a big gamer, I don't own a mobile phone and data plans in Canada involve mortgaging your home and/or children.

Re: A faster N810??
 

Personally, I prefer the clamshell form factor. The biggest reason being that it lets you have a spread out area for all the circuits AND have a larger keyboard, fewer moving parts.. and most important of all: SCREEN PROTECTION.

Re: A faster N810??
 

I have to admit that after following the Pandora mess, I have little faith in "bunch of enthusiasts building an N800 replacement".

But looking inside the SmartQ5, I notice that it is very roomy inside, while still being smaller and lighter than an N800.

I am sure that the company that made it could create a system in a similar case, with an OMAP3 (or other Cortex-A8 based Soc, such as i.MX51, S5PC), 256MB of RAM, 2 SD slots, a larger battery, a d-pad, etc. And I believe they could have it ready in 2009.

The real question is how to make them "see the light", and actually do this.

Re: A faster N810??
 

Here's a 60 sec solution to speeding up your n810;

Settings->Control Panel->Memory->Virtual Tab->"Enable Virtual Memory": 128MB

I've seen huge, HUGE, speed increases in every application.

Re: A faster N810??
 

In fact some of them even start working :D

Re: A faster N810??
 

Well, I say that if someone does decide to build an open internet tablet (which I personally think is a smashing idea, since a little extra competition would actually help and improve the MID market, and increase sales of other MIDS, not harm it, or reduce sales, thus allowing for greater market penetration, which any OEM will see as a plus) they need to also build some accessories to allow for the wearable pc concepts we've talked about before. I'd love to have the ability to watch videos or use my device without needing to have it right in front of me.

IBM's wearable PC design was good, but so was a few other ideas I saw. I covered all those in an article I did a little while back that talked about how all this technology already exists. We just need people willing to take that step forward. :)

Re: A faster N810??
 

Since the processor in the N810 and N800 are the same and the new operating system was able change the clock speed from 330 to 400. Wouldn't it be possible to change it again by "cooking" to increase it again to say 433? 450?

Re: A faster N810??
 

"Cooking" may be a good word choice. Please see a post by Igor in the "Overclocking N800?" thread.

Re: A faster N810??
 

I am broke and lack the required skills so it won't be me but, like qole said, these diy hardware hackers out there might take a jab at it.

Re: A faster N810??
 

besides I haven't been able to find a video or blog on a dissected n810 to even know what the insides look like and its parts I mean, can't it even get a memory upgrade with soldering and all?

Re: A faster N810??
 

ThoughtFix dismantled an N800 a while back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3BorZkQ2Vo

Tim

Re: A faster N810??
 

For a start, you could go to the FCC page for the N810 and follow the "Internal Photos" link.

Re: A faster N810??
 

I just saw that searching engadget. Apparently no one took the same step towards the n810. I am assuming its because the n800 and n810 are practically the same.

Re: A faster N810??
 

That, and the N810 uses smaller Torx screws, and thoughtfix didn't (doesn't?) have a proper driver for them.

Re: A faster N810??
 

That's more like it. Thanks

Re: A faster N810??
 

Another speed tip: Set your CPU scaling governor to "performance" mode. Liqbase can do this, and I included a little script in Easy Debian too.

Basically, just do this as root:

(all on one line)


Fennec is almost usable!

Re: A faster N810??
 

Did you test what it does to battery life?

Re: A faster N810??
 

Why is everything in Linux in command line? This is one of the reasons why I don't have Linux on every PC I own and why Linux has yet to get beyond the geek community. In Windows Mobile CPU settings such as "Power Saver, Performance, Balanced" are under the CPU settings, why are these missing in Maemo?

Speaking from a Windows Mobile point of view, on-demand and performance are the same thing, on-demand just throttles the CPU down when not in use, performance doesn't. How is it different in Maemo?

Thanks for mentioning liqbase, looks cool. I'm afraid Fennec is a disaster, unusable.

Re: A faster N810??
 

ioioio:

yes, this just prevents the CPU from throttling down from 397.46 to 164.36 Mips (those numbers are according to my home applet).

lcuk and others discovered that turning off the throttle makes apps run faster, probably because the CPU throttle is too aggressive for CPU-intensive apps.

As for command line phobia: Put that line into a Personal Menu item and set it to run as root. Problem solved!

Matan: I've seen a very mild battery life decrease. So mild that I'm not sure it exists. It isn't very significant, because I don't believe the CPU speed is a big determiner for battery life. If anything, a faster CPU should help "race to idle," no?

In any event, you can set your processor back to on-demand, just by replacing the "performance" in the command line with "ondemand".

Re: A faster N810??
 

The default CPU throttling is designed to avoid situations where a task using very little CPU, but doing so very frequently, will constantly wake the CPU and drain the battery very rapidly. Because the CPU uses much less power while operating at 165MHz compared too 400MHz.

The flip side, of course, is that you'll get a delay while the CPU ramps up for more demanding tasks.

The proper choice depends a lot on how you use your tablet.

Or just reboot.

Re: A faster N810??
 

In the conditions we have (very low consumption when CPU idle),
high frequency wastes battery time when the CPU waits a lot, either when doing busy wait loop (which are not common, I guess) or when waiting for the memory, which I expect is much more common, considering the small low-associativity caches and slow RAM.

So, I suggest running some tests before advising people to use this option. Recall that Nokia probably ran those tests, and selected to run the N800 at 333MHz, rather than 400MHz, when scaling was not available. This suggests to me that the frequency does have a significant affect.

It is useful the remember that while power draw is proportional to the frequency, the OMAP also reduces voltage when running at lower frequency, and power draw is proportional to square of voltage, so it is possible that the CPU takes 2.5 as much seconds to do something at 166MHz, but might draw 10% of the power per second during this time.

Re: A faster N810??
 

well, cooking your CPU might be one way to desolder the BGA pads - just be sure to shake it hard when it overheats and crashes

:D