Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

I sent an email (by using this form) to Nokia asking them to update flash. Their "customer service" response:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Eli,

Thank you for e-mailing the Nokia Care Contact Centre.

I apologize for the extended delay in responding to your e-mail message and greatly appreciate your patience.

I appreciate you taking time out of your day to provide us suggestion about updating the flash version on the Nokia N810 Internet Tablet. Nevertheless, I will be more than happy to provide you with the following information.

Eli, we are consistently working to improve our phones and their enhancements. Therefore, we consider feedback we receive from consumers, about our products, as an important indication of customer satisfaction.

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to provide us with your suggestion; I will be glad to inform you that I have forwarded your suggestion to the appropriate department within Nokia for further review.

Once again, I thank you for being a loyal Nokia customer and hope the information provided is helpful.

If you have any additional questions, please contact us. To ensure proper handling, please continue to use the current subject line.

Thank you for choosing Nokia for your mobile needs.

Person
E-mail Specialist
Nokia Inc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll see what happens...

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Actually, that message reads as:

------------------------------------------
Dear Eli,

Thank you for e-mailing the Nokia Care Contact Centre.

Sorry we didn't email you earlier, but we were busy. Sucks, doesn't it?

I appreciate you taking time out of your day to to tell us what we already know.

Eli, we are working on phones and now netbooks, not tablets anymore. Therefore, we consider feedback we receive from consumers, about our tablets, as an important as an old Nokia 2110 mobile phone, which is quite old!

I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to provide us with your suggestion; I will be glad to inform you that I will forward your suggestion to the appropriate department within Nokia for further review when it's most convenient for us, me or if we even decide to do it.

Once again, I thank you for being a loyal Nokia customer and hope the information provided is helpful.

If you have any additional questions, please don't contact us about your tablet anymore. Instead, to ensure proper handling, please use the subject line, "I need a phone" and your inquiry will be sent to the Nokia Sales Team for further processing.

Thank you for choosing Nokia for your mobile needs.

Person
E-mail Specialist
Nokia Inc.

------------------------------------------

Anyway, that's the way I read it. o.o

Jesse~

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

I think it reads more like "

Thank you ${CUSTOMER_NAME} for your suggestion on ${SUBJECT}. Nokia really cares about you and your suggestions. Please be sure to buy our future /* TODO (2001-5-1): Remember to replace this with ${DEVICE_TYPE} when it is properly defined to "phone", "tablet", or "netbook". */ phones.

No offense. If I were a big company I would do plain statistical analysis on customer feedback and then send them automated replies too.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Well honestly, what do you expect when you send in a suggestion by e-mail to a big company? They probably get swamped with them, mostly of this sort: "Can you make your next phone more awesome?" "Nokia should make iPhones!" "You should add a 17" screen, and a laser, and a bottle opener, and a pony, and a...". If companies personally answered all of the inane e-mails they get, they wouldn't have time or money to actually make products, and sorting through the inane e-mails for the good ones takes too long.
I'd be inclined to believe that what goes on in this forum has more effect than e-mailing customer service with a suggestion. (Which isn't to say it has much, but you get my point...)

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

;)

........

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Also see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29980 .
As I've written over there, please feel also encouragted to vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4744 by clicking "Vote for this bug".

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Why file and vote for bugs that never get fixed? I mean, who cares about Facebook video when even https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3703 goes without fixing?

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

That bug report is not a WONTFIX. It's up to you to provide the information asked for. Nokia developers don't have a crystal ball.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Errm.... also the bug you mention has no votes at all. So there's no context between your comment and my comment?!

I do understand the frustration that Nokia sometimes (quite often?) very successfully creates. But don't mix up things that have nothing to do with each other, please. :-)

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

heh. I understand what most people here are saying, but you can't say I didn't try. :p I don't have much more say in how Nokia does things, and I don't know anyone that works for the company, so I did what I could. If it'll help anything is a different question. :p

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

if a lot of people ask for the same thing, maybe 500, than maybe they might actually upgrade the flash version

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Andre, I have provided all the information that is needed, as far as I am concerned. I traced execution of MicroB and found that the Flash plugin basically goes into a tight loop making gettimeofday() syscall. If you have 2-3 Flash plugins shown on the same web page, their timing loops eat 100% of the CPU. It is a very well known bug. You can go to #maemo IRC channel and just ask people if they ever encountered it. Pretty much everybody will tell you that this problem occurred to them.

Now, you or Nokia people can provide any justification to ignore this bug. Mark it WONTFIX, perpetually ask for more data, delay until Harmattan, complain that "there are no votes", but none of your actions are going to make this problem disappear for the users. As far as I can see, this bug is still going to be present in Fremantle. Personally, I am not going to spend more of my time trying to prove to Nokia (or you) that this bug exists. I have come to understand that it is just going to be a waste of my time.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

If you list their email address, I will also ask for an upgrade.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

"I will try causing the problem again and restarting esd." - no update after this.

That's true. Though it's definitely not on my mind to delay - I'm also not happy with some of the Nokia decisions that I forward.

I didn't complain that there are no votes, I just didn't get the relation to the comment before. Thanks for clarifying - got it now.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

This kind of stuff really puts faith in their product and makes me want to have their Maemo based cellphone in my pocket... yeah.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

FIXED IN FREMANTLE! (drink) :)

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

HAHA!

I think that we can hope that Adobe's Open Screen Project gets pushed to all iterations of Maemo and that Nokia doesn't get in the way.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Well, you see, the funny thing is that the problem with the current Flash plugin for MicroB can be fixed without involving Adobe, by some creative wrapping of gettimeofday() (similar fixes to RedHat can be found by Google) and/or controlling the execution time of each Flash instance. This would require Nokia to admit the problem first though. As we all know by now, this is usually an unsurmountable obstacle.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

You know, I have read a lot, awful lot of replies to feature or bug requests, and while it still would be nice with an upgrade, I have to say, that was a rather nice one.

It was polite, which is common but not always so. It was honest, in that it admitted that it had to forward it to someone who had a clue to what was asked. And it was positive, using many words and obviously wasn't based on a standard reply.

I bet someone used ten minutes, a quarter of an hour on your request.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Having worked in an ISP tech support phone center in an engineering capacity (not just a rep answering the phone, but actually figuring out and fixing issues), and knowing how email is commonly handled by those departments...

I sincerely doubt that the responding support person spent more than 30 seconds to read the email, respond to it with that canned response and to pass it into a ticketing system where it will sit in a queue for an engineer to look over it and research it, make a statistical note of it, reject it, or resolve it. That's about all you can ascertain from the way it looks.

Beyond that, who knows? Once it's in a ticketing system, it's all up to the system. My guess is that the ticketing system will send out "ticklers" to get someone's attention to work on it within a set metric for that customer's SLA (Service Level Agreement), as is typical in most companies. In this case, it's probably a very liberal SLA since there's no contract agreement involved. He's just some guy sending off an email about support for a product he bought--not someone that bought a contract for hardware support in a business or something.

Anyway.. that's my guess and how I interpreted the email.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

But what is this statement got to do with the N8x0, "we are consistently working to improve our phones and their enhancements"? Obviously it is a standard reply.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

It's a lot like when you call, deal with a phone menu system and get put on hold with a voice recording that states, 'Your call is important to us.'

I don't mind that I'm put on hold to wait in a queue to wait for someone who is available to answer--but it's insulting and hypocritical to state that my call is important while I'm on hold, as if stating that will somehow make me feel as though there are unimportant calls to them that differentiate the one I'm making.

My Nokia product is isn't a phone nor an enhancement to a phone. Don't state such a thing if the topic of the conversation is irrelevant to phones or to an enhancement to them. Do you not hire people to recognize these flaws in your communications with customers? :P

Anyway.. now I'm just ranting. :)

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Guys, you do realise that the flash plugin is not a Nokia product and that the Linux version's quality and performance suck even on multi-core multi-GHz boxes, right? Of all the things to complain to Nokia about this has to be near the bottom of the list.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Considering it's a touted feature which Nokia packaged with the OS.. I think it's quite likely in their court. Particularly because it came with the OS. Who do you think Adobe treats as their customer in this case? Nokia or the individual user?

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Unfortunately it happens that the same feature is one of the key selling points for an internet device.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Flash doesn't work?

:eek: WTF :eek:





:D

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

"Adobe® Flash® 9 plug-in, including video and audio streaming support" seems truthful to me for the Diablo lifecycle. Let's be realistic, Diablo's gone as far as it will go and perpetual updates for any component just aren't going to happen. Especially when the component in question is a third-party closed source implementation of a closed specification.

So did a lot of other more important stuff. I'd be happy if they fixed their own (& reported within the product lifecycle) bugs at least. But then again, who does?

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Hi folks,

Adobe needs to be the one to update flash and make it available. Nokia can surely help encourage that, and we should continue to recommend to them that they do. BUT, we need to make it clear to Adobe that they have a large and vocal customer base to serve.

There is an enhancement request posted on Adobe's system to this effect. I encourage everyone to vote for this, as a clear sign that we exist and are requesting some action.

The bug number is FP-2381, and you can vote here (you will need to register with Adobe, but it's quick and painless).

https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-2381

Thanks!

Greg.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

A lot of Linux users honestly have zero interest in the Adobe Flash Platform/Plugin. I've requested in more direct manners that an upgrade happen; and the Open Screen Initiative that Adobe is going to unleash in October hopefully includes what's already out but also what's forthcoming.

I'd almost have to say that I can only hope that it will happen.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

You don't even want to know how difficult it was to share that sort of thing inside.

Ever hear the expression "pushing rope"?

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Sorry, Dan, that's disingenuous. Do you REALLY want to go there? If so, first start examining every product out there that bundles anything... :eek:

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

BTW, http://www.adobe.com/support/securit...apsa09-03.html (aka remote code execution vulnerability, theoretically possible to exploit on ARM but not done yet).

Adobe has already released the 9.x i386 update, but AFAIK not the ARM one and it's still unknown if they're going to release it.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Heh... one of these days, you will have to share this story man.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Here's the story:

I was a feedback analyst. My job was to mine data, identify trends/risks, and provide feedback.

No one wanted any.

The end.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

Way more anti-climatic than I was prepared for. No hatchets? No threats? No drama?

Boo ;)

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

"Pushing rope"?

Not at all. Adobe doesn't do flash because they feel generous. This isn't open source; it's a business. Flash enables commerce, and any device that can't play it, can't participate. That eventually means less revenue back to Adobe.

If we can show a significant set of potential customers that are not going to participate in their business food chain, then they will be more inclined to take action.

We need to let Adobe and Nokia - both - know that they have a large set of customers to serve. And, since I just got my N810, I'm in no mood to fork over a bunch of money on whatever the next model is, especially if it "comes with" a monthly data plan! If that's their answer, then this is probably the LAST Nokia product I will ever buy.

Greg.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

This pretty much describes Nokia's treatment of Maemo userbase, in a nutshell.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

At least for issues reported against Fremantle SDK versions in the last months that's not really true. Quite some stuff got fixed that was originally reported by users, definitely more than 50% of what has been reported.
But I guess we all agree that Nokia could do way better of course.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

I did not mean the bug reports against Fremantle SDK. I meant the feedback about released Nokia products, N800 and N810, both the software bug reports and the comments on the hardware, features, mechanics, etc.

Re: Annoying Nokia about Flash until they update it
 

I get the feeling maybe you don't understand the expression or maybe the context?