Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

Motorola "Sholes"

The good:
480x852 screen 3.7" touch screen
5 megapixel camera
physical keyboard with dedicated number row
dpad

The bad:
CDMA/EVDO on Verizon, instead of being a GSM phone
4 row keyboard instead of 5
dpad is on the keyboard, not the face
While the memory is better than the G1, it still seems a little anaemic to me.


But, it's the first post-G1 android device I've thought about.

EDIT: Article with better pictures

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

I wants it. This has the potential to be absolutely perfect, except:

Bluetooth 2.0: 2.1/EDR with A2DP plz. I don't actually care about this, but the fact that they got it wrong makes me nervous about the other stuff.

Multitouch? If it doesn't have it, it could be a deal breaker. Remember, apple claims to have a patent on it. Palm had the balls and the patent portfolio to release the pre, and multitouch followed in the Hero and the Zii, but we don't know if Moto is going to try and avoid trouble.

CPU? If this has the same cpu as the Hero, it is absolutely useless. At the very least it needs the same one as the 3GS/Pre in order to take advantage of that amazing resolution. The one in the 3GS can be clocked upto 800mhz from the current 600mhz, and there is also a 1ghz model. Motorola needs to be at the upper end of these speeds. There is of course the multicore Zii, but I doubt that they would have already integrated it into a phone shipping in October.

Verizon sucks, I wish this was coming to Sprint instead at the very least. Of course, they all suck, but at least Sprint is cheap.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

I think I was wrong about the bluetooth, it does have EDR, here is a more full spec list


* 3.7 inch touch screen
* 480×854 pixels resolution
* QWERTY slider
* Verizon bound
* Standard CDMA, EVDO Rev A.
* Dimensions: 60.00 x 115.80 x 13.70 mm
* Weight 169g
* Battery Li-ion 1400mAh.
* 450 hours standby time
* 420 minutes talk time
* Memory (FLASH / RAM): 512MB/256MB
* Memory card microSD / microSDHC up to 16 GB
* Messaging: SMS, MMS, E-Mail
* Full HTML browser
* 5 MP camera with autofocus
* USB2.0
* 3.5mm heaset jack
* Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR 1
* Wi-Fi (IEEE 802.11g)
* Audio: AMR-NB/WB, MP3, PCM / WAV, AAC, AAC +, eAAC +, WMA
* Video: MPEG-4, H263, H264, WMV
* Navigation: GPS
* Package Contents: Phone Motorola Sholes, battery, charger, USB cable, memory card 8GB MicroSD and other literature.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

re: multi-touch: meh. I haven't really found a situation where I needed it.

And, on multi-touch patents, I think it'll be funny to see Apple try to enforce its patent given that another company had multi-touch first (and, IIRC, Apple licensed it from them).

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

I think it would funny to see Apple sue Motorola, after they (and IBM) supplied all their CPUs for their computers for a decade.

Multitouch is important though, especially on a device like this without the dedicated zoom buttons like the n800. "Pushing" fake buttons on screen isn't as intuitive as using gestures(or the hardware keyboard). Given that this is a high end device, there would be no reason not to have multitouch other than the patent issue.

It really all comes down to hte CPU though. The Samsung Galaxy and the HTC Hero are both useless because they have obsolete CPUs.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

IF I was doing lots of zooming, rotating, etc. on any of my pocketable devices (n800, n810, g1), I would see your point. If I was doing _ANY_ of it, I would see your point.

But I don't. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Thus my statement: multi-touch = meh.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

I guess it is more important on the smaller devices like the ipod touch where you are constantly zooming. Still, like I said, there is no reason not to have it. It doesn't detract from the user experience. I think the Palm Pre makes hte best use of it, with the gesture area on the bottom allowing you to launch apps without leaving full screen, as well as the gesture to switch between app windows.

Multitouch is also important for games.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

More details

Looks like it might have a GSM/WCDMA version coming to AT&T after the Verizon one is out.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

to bad that motorola pulled out of the norwegian market some years ago, and just when they started producing some interesting phones to...

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

Would that keep you from getting a European GSM/UMTS version (if it comes out), on the grey market, and using it in Norway?

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

It's a shame it doesn't come with a trackball like the htc g1\hero.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

I consider that to be a feature (dpad over trackball). My biggest gripe about the G1: the trackball. Would MUCH rather have a dpad.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

The 'clicking trackball' found in blackberry bold and G1 can be used to move in one direction one 'click' at a time and yet it can also be scrolled at variable speed.. I've found it great for scrolling pages and selecting text.

I'd imagine dpads would be great for games though.

edit: found another pic with better view of the dpad.

http://media.boygeniusreport.com/wp-...to-shules2.jpg

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

technically nothing, except there is less of a issue getting a subsidiced phone in norway (1 year lock, unlock coade at end of year).

i just hope another company launch a android phone with keyboard here (htc and samsung seems to only go for OSK).

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

To me, a trackball is redundant to a touch screen (when combined with inertial scrolling gestures), with or without stylus vs finger.

Fast scrolling with a trackball vs fast scrolling with the flick of a finger/stylus
Click and Drag with a trackball vs press and drag with a finger/stylus

Finger and trackball are both fast and imprecise (almost every phone trackball I've used/seen is over-sensitive and doesn't offer a sensitivity control, so a slight slip of the finger throws you WAY off).

A stylus can make up for that, but having to get out a stylus is, IMO, awkward and cumbersome. I only want to use the precision of a stylus for fine point drawing, and maybe text selection. I don't want to use it for precision movement from widget to widget (which, in my opinion, neither a finger nor a phone trackball is suited for).

A dpad handles everything those 3 input methods doesn't:

• Precision -- When you move from widget to widget, you always do it ONE step at a time, you don't have to worry about accidentally slipping and jumping 3 widgets over (like with a trackball), or being unable to choose among 2 or 3 small text links or buttons that are close together (like with a finger). Whether it's precision of movement, or precision of clicking, the dpad wins over both the finger and the trackball.
• Convenience -- Unlike a stylus, you don't have to pull it out of its well, keep it on a lanyard, worry about setting it down and forgetting/losing it, etc. Depending on where it's placed on the device, it's always available, and you never risk losing it.

To me, the best combination is (all of these in one device):

1) Finger optimized GUI with inertial gestures for scrolling and such (flick your finger, send the scrolling list flying; have a slider thumb that appears only during scrolling so you can grab it and move it to the right place on the list (Android does this)).

2) A Dpad that is easy to use both when the device is closed and open.

3) The option/ability to use a stylus if you need to do fine point drawing, manipulation, or something similar. Preferably it could use the plastic tip of a pen cap, or something similarly common and easy to obtain (so that you don't have to worry about replacing one that comes with the device). I also like the Nokia Express Music "guitar pick" styli. But, again, it should be optional, and something you only really need for specialized applications. The primary pointer should be your finger(s).


So, as you can see, a trackball doesn't even enter into it for me. It's not necessary for speed, precision, convenience, anything (and, I still argue that it's not even _useful_ for precision). I find them clumsy and imprecise. Even after a year of using the one on my G1.

It might be acceptable to have an optical mouse in the middle of the dpad, like one of the latest Nokia phones (E73?). I haven't used an optical mouse on a phone yet, but it was a little bit awkward on the Raeon Everun Digital Note. It'd be ok, as long as you can turn it off and just use it like a regular Dpad IF YOU WANT. (that might give you the best of both a Dpad and a trackball)

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

@john: Ok. Just curious, can you tell me which trackball implementation have you tried and how long have you spent with said trackball to get yourself acquainted with how it works?

On my Bold and G1, the OS+trackball has been tweaked to offer the precision required that I've never had any problem with getting the cursor to move in the direction intended or the number of single clicks required out of it.

And as for the conveniene issue (as you've mentioned), I think that can be put aside, as there's no stylus anymore in new devices nowadays :)

After comparing the use of trackball and d-pad on handhelds, i've found them to be very similar actually:
- Conversion of the free 360' direction of the trackball to 4 primary d-pad direction is never a problem. Never got them wrong, once.
- The movements are usually either a staccato string of single clicks (very similarly duplicated on trackballs) or when you need it repeated for a short duration (moving the cursor\pointer for a few rows or columns (of icon or letters) at a time you either hold the d-pad down to let the key-press repeat work on its own or scroll the trackball having a bit of control on the speed of its repetition. For 90% of common document manipulation and interface interaction, they're really sufficient.

The main difference (to me) is for playing games when you need to hold the d-pad button down for long periods of time and that cannot be easily replicated on a trackball.

I've spent 15 minutes with the digital mouse on the raon, I don't think it is really useable.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

I've spent almost a year on the G1, and I'm not aware of any method to adjust its sensitivity. It's always just as broadly/coarsely over-sensitive no matter what. A slight tremor in the thumb and it will dump to the next item when you try to click. A slip of the thumb at the wrong moment can move you multiple widgets along (this is especially annoying with Google Reader, for example, but also in the web browser, or even in Gmail -- but to see what I mean for Google Reader, try to click on the "keep unread" checkbox for a large range of messages, where the messages have lots of links (a combined list of engadet and slashdot articles ought to do the trick) ... it's one of those things that's so obtuse that, in my experience, only has a 40-60% chance of success averaged out over multiple attempts on multiple articles -- try doing it with your finger, too).

I have used a BB Curve many times, but not as consistently and continuously as the G1 (my G1 has been my only pocketable device, carried with me almost constantly, since last October).

Getting the trackball to roll in the intended direction isn't a problem. Getting it to only roll as far as I want, and be sure it doesn't roll at all when I click, those are the problems. And those are what keep it from meeting my requirement for precision.

"No more stylus" _included_. That doesn't mean it can't be useful to have one. There are, for example, accessory styli you can get for the iPhone. I would similarly expect/want one for the N900. And I wish I could find a stylus that would work with the G1 (I'd probably only RARELY use it, but there are cases where I definitely wish I had one to use).

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

iirc, the G1 uses a capacitive screen, so the iphone stylus should in theory work with the G1 as well...

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

@john: I'm not sure where the difference lies between your device and mine.. but I've tried your use case and I could click 'keep unread' checkbox 10 out of 10 tries without any problem at all. Though I do think the navigation and ui of android's browser is a few steps behind iphone's as there's a weird (unintended?) cursor repositioning\screen jump after every checkbox click.

Yes, stylus can be useful. But I'm not sure about fat styli over capacitive screens.

@tso: yes, you're right.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

That's pretty much what I'm talking about ... except that for me, it frequently happens _before_ or _during_ the click, not just after. And not just with checkboxes, it also happens with URLs.

Further, I see it apps other than just the android browser. The dedicated/native Gmail app does it to me, sometimes, as well.

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

@johnkzin: i think it may be a tad better on cupcake. still, kind of a put off to see the screen has a mind of its own..

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

I've been on cupcake for a while :-)

Re: Motorola "Sholes" Android phone
 

oh :) then i've no idea of the source of inconsistency..
I'm having a good experience with bb bold's trackball too.

anyhoo, we'll see how the shole turns out ;)