"Donate to developer" in ToolKit
 

Hello guys (and girls), been a while I've not posted here.

I just had an idea I felt like sharing.

Since Maemo is unlikely to have an "App store" with paying apps, rewarding developpers, and attracting new developpers could become difficult now.

So I thought: Why not including a "Donate to the developper" system, with an entry in the menu of each app, the "About" way.

It would open a box with the name of the developper, an entry for the amount and a "Donate" button.


First time you do that, you're asked for information about how you'd pay (paypal, credit card, SMS, whatever nokia wants), and then it's stored for next times.

This could be implemented by each developper, but I think it'd be way more useful if included in the toolkit and standardized.

I guess it'd be very complicated to set up, but I felt like sharing the idea and hearing your thoughts about it.

Thanks for reading.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

looks good, bui i bet almost no one will donate

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

That's not true. I've gotten donations for my work here and I know I'm not the only one who has donated to Liqbase development.

Tim

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

I have implemented this for Fremantle in the apps I'm developing (the ones I created, not the ports) in the about dialog.
It has a button that will be opening a webpage where I'll explain:

• why you should donate some money or cookies

• why you should not donate some money (but cookies are always mandatory)

The webpage has a paypal button, and there the donor can donate the money that considers appropriate by means of paypal (if is registered) or with a credit card (if isn't registered in paypal).

It will be a nice experiment with zero cost.

I have to say I too have received some donations.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

libdonation with pre-made dialogs/interfacing with payment etc maybe?

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

I don't know what you're trying to get across in the heading of that view, but consider changing it to whichever one of these suits your goal:

"Make Donation"

~or~

"Please Help"

"I want donate" doesn't really make sense.

Tim

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Translation issue. I was going to PM Daniel privately with suggestions.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Is it just for monetary gestures? Or can this also be linked to some review\testimonial\moral support module?

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

There is no reason why a framework for paying applications (before or after usage) would not work. You could extend the framework with plugins to PayPal and other services like that. Just, you have to keep it simple and secure. Does such a framework perhaps exist already? I suppose it'd be something lik Cydia for *NIX.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

What if each app had an instantaneous way to rate it as well (linked to the m.o apps page). This would also allow users to organize their apps by highest rating (personal use).

Tim

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

We're even now: I recommended that a long time ago. :D

iTunes and Microsoft media player allow song purchasers to rate the songs and provide that up/out for just such metrics. The same could easily work for Maemo apps... if you like it, vote on it on your device... and if you allow the metrics to be shared, then the data is used at the distribution site as *one* organizing/advertising priority factor. Of course there should be multiple additional factors (name, date, size, genre, views, downloads, etc).

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Yeah, exactly. I thought it can serve as the 'incentive hotline' for the developer of some sort :)
And with this data, it could serve so many other functions too..

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

You can't put a paypal link at the bottom of the page of each app in the download section of this website? "If you would like to make a donation to the creators of this app click here."

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

I like the service idea because the payment could be seamless and ubiquitous. Paypal provides just such a thing, as do major credit card vendors-- it's just a matter of broadening the scope. So, sure, links on web pages but also on devices in any other appropriate context.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

First, I'm happy that other people like the idea too :-)

I've thought more about it, it gets complicated when there's more than one contributor, who gets the money? would it be shared? how?

What if noone request the money? maybe it could go to the FSF? or to maemo.org?

The option should probably be included first in the maemo.org site, and then could make its way to the toolkit.
I'm not fond of Paypal, but I have to admit that for such a service, it's practical. Maybe Nokia has a better way...

I also like the "Rate the app" idea!

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Good idea, but you were not fast enough ;) :
http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...gh_emphasized/

Too bad that idea never left the Sandbox.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Personally I think the Application Manager should become App Store-like, and then adding in a donate button should be an option.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

agreed.

What I think would be nicer would be to include some talk of donation and open source in whatever "getting started" information is supplied with a device.

informing people from day one that this platform is based around open source and the hard work put in by each and every one of us would be beneficial to us all.

yerga, I really like the style of your dialog and if it oculd be implemented inside a library as stskeeps says, it will allow for others to follow that attractive style.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Yes! very interesting ideas in the proposed solution!

You're right, too bad it's not been adopted...

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Slightly related, though not for applications in general but for specific bug reports or enhancement requests: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124096 is about providing a "Donate"/Bounty option in Bugzilla. Unfortunately noone is working on it. :-/

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Could everybody interested in this topic make sure that the right ideas are listed and voted http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...ugh_emphasized

The topic deserves more brainstorm and defined proposals. It's actually a good time for Maemo to have a look at this and see what could be done.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

My experience shows that it is not worth the effort.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Do you mind explaining a bit? :)

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

I initially tried offering my applications for free, asking for donations. A lot of people downloaded my apps (according to web server statistics), dozens of them wrote back saying how happy and satisfied they were. In about 2 years I got 2 donations for the total amount of about $50.

In other words, either implement a proper application store and let people make money, or do not bother.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

For developers to be attractive, should be good revenue. Not cents or few dollars, because of the nature of software development: it is not easy, and if there are not good tools for integrated debugging, etc, and even with the tools it is not easy to create a professional application, a game... not talking here about a simple widget that has a RSS feed, that can be done with no programming.

What dev tools Maemo has, like IDE, nice and friendly IDE Integrated Dev Env....? For C++?

When will be Java supported?

Is any plan for MS Silverlight and C# coming to Maemo?

How good is the IDE for QT?

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

You can use any of Linux-based IDEs. I use Geany. Other people use Eclipse (which I hate because it is slow and unstable).

Ask Quim about it. Frankly, I neither know nor care: aside from small MIDP-based games, Java is pretty useless commercially.

As far as I know, Mono is operational on Maemo.

What is "IDE for QT"? And what all of your questions have to do with the topic of this thread?

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

I have similar experiences, some kind people will donate, but (compared to the installed userbase) it's really just that - a donation, a little greenback thank you, not something you can base your N900 acquisition on.

There doesn't necessarily need to be a store, however (that kills the Open Source segment a bit and brings DRM into play). The best I have come up with so far was a very-cheap donation/subscription service (or maybe even a slight Nokia subvention) which lands money in a big melting pot. Now, as we know extras is centralized and we have stats about it, the money from the pot can be split across the projects proportionally to their popularity in that month. That way, more serious projects get more money, there is actually an incentive to make polished end-user software. and they have to make no license or DRM compromise. Sure, given the GPL you could mirror and install from other places, but considering the extra effort I don't think it will be a significant drain if the cost to the end user is low enough.

Pasted this to brainstorm. Oh, and if this goes through I expect a medal, a N900 and a job at Nokia, not necessarily in that order :D

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Hmm what I'd like to see is such a framework with pluggable things but I would like to see Nokia step up in here and add a pay with mobile option as well. So one could just get this as a purchase on their phone bill. I know atleast one of our cellcos provide something along those lines.


As for Java/Mono/C#/Silverlight I would ask if it's possible to REMOVE Flash from the device and still have it function. I don't want none of such on it. Anyway this is OT ranting now :)

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

I would really just keep it simple for now, by providing an easy way for the users to buy an application straight from the AppManager, by paying for it with credentials entered in the configuration (or on the first payment). Let us forget the DRM, the mobile payments, and other bells and whistles for now. They are not essential for the first stage. What is important is the first proof that Maemo can be a viable platform for commercial applications, even if there is only a bunch of them at the first stage.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

And how are you going to prevent commercial and OSS developers not becoming mortal enemies in that scenario, ultimately resulting in one group abandoning the platform ?

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Could you explain why they should become mortal enemies? Notice that I am not suggesting DRM. Nor am I suggesting attaching a price tag to every application in the repository. The only difference a user will see is that some (very few, hopefully) applications will be labelled with a coin icon. Clicking on them will ask the user whether he wants to pay or download a demo. How is this going to offend OSS developers?

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Many will disagree, but the way I see it they're fire and water. Commercial developers HATE to see quality OSS applications appear as they bite into their income, and the only way to battle that is to develop more complex/powerful/polished (and thus costly) software. This is aggravated by NIT users not as accustomed to paying for software than any other platform's users. Add to this the problem of DRM lack, which will further lower your income, and you will see what you have now on the NIT - the handful of commercial apps available for the NIT (some even in extras) are not exactly smash hits...

As for the flip side, if you make a push for commercial apps, any change you introduce to make commercial apps more competitive will undermine your OSS potential. OSS projects build the community from the savvy userbase, so if your userbase is driven to or naturally becomes a commercial app user, the OSS projects will wither (if you have a super-snazzy super-powerful super-supported super-quality app for 1$, who's going to manage to draw enough attention and community to build a quality alternative ?). In this scenario OSS projects whither to hobby projects, carrying little value to the end-users.

The worst case scenario is when you have both effects at play - in that case you don't have either OSS not commercial apps of adequate quality because neither community can fully exploit it's advantages.

Ceterum censeo the AppStore can't work with OSS in the Apple way.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Please let's stay on topic about donations for free software. The rest is collateral and useful but, really, it would be good to have first an exploration of the feature itself, potential, alternatives...

I'm not sure how much the lack of success for donation for PC software can be applied to mobile software. Millions of people are paying 0,99 through their mobile devices for the most stup... er... basic things. Why wouldn't they think of it for a piece of software they actually like and find useful?

I'll give you a totally fictional scenario to nurture your imagination:

A developer comes with with a free app based on Qt that happens to be available for the Maemo and Symbian platforms. It's distributed in Ovi at no cost and you can actually get it from 1001 places more if you wish.

When you download it you are encouraged to donate 1, 5 or 10€ that are discounted from your Nokia Money account, your operator bill or your associated PayPal account. The dialog tells you how many people have supported this app already and it has a checkbox for "Don't show me this message again".

Somewhere you will be able to see that Nokia doesn't get any commission and actually covers the % of transaction costs. A % of your donation will be distributed to a pool of well known related non-profits: FSF, Linux Foundation, CreativeCommons, etc.

Do you think a scenario like this is desirable? If so, then let's talk about ideas to get there at http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...gh_emphasized/

If you think the scenario is unreal or undesirable then please discuss.

Commercial developers, DRM and stuff are not really part of this debate.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

I am a commercial developer and I do not hate to see quality OSS applications. Hell, I am using many such applications myself. Where have you got this idea anyway?

You do understand that if Maemo is to be successful, it has to become a commercial platform at some point, no matter what some NIT users say?

Each developer can come up with his own protection scheme, as they always have done. So I do not see any mortal problems occurring from the lack of DRM.

Sorry but I fail to see logic in this statement. You mean, having good commercial apps is bad because it makes bad OSS apps wither? And how is having better apps bad for the user?

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

I have no idea how desirable this scenario is but, as I previously said, it is not likely to generate enough donations to even bother implementing the needed infrastructure.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

My worry is if people will be able to make that leap, from perceiving something as COST (=must or even convenience) to have a comparable response as a DONATION. In the first case they have this feeling they now actually own/bought something, that they are entitled to help, support, and that they are really a client, while in the second case, it's much more a moral incentive augmented by the community spirit, which might or might not work out as a surogate replacement for the first case. Plus you have extra factors as donator fatigue (you'll likely donate to the first apps you see and like, the 100th app you install has much lower chances compared to what it would have if it had been #1). I can't say whether it's unreal as it has never even been attempted at that scale (a little market study homework for Nokia :) ). If it works yay \o/, but but I would not expect it to be a game-changer.

Understood :)

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

To stay in line with qgil's request of staying on topic, I'll just say 'commercial patform' should not be synonimized with an Apple style AppStore. There are many, many ways of making a platform commercial. It's not Appstore or bust, there are far more nuances.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

100% agree. I am not even sure why everyone assumes it has to be Apple AppStore nowadays.

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

Perhaps try a pay what you want approach. Not donate (two different ideas from what people have tested already).

Re: "Donate to developper" in ToolKit
 

I think having a donation system in place on the phone/tablet itself would be helpful and is much more likely to generate donations than simply a Paypal button on the program's website alone.

Instead of the user having to hunt down the official developer's website through Google (and potentially not getting there at all), then going through all the Paypal procedure... the user has to go through a lot of effort to donate that way (figuratively speaking). With a simple donate button in the application manager (or whatever gets implemented) which will automatically donate from the user's Paypal/Nokia Money/whatever account, more people are going to be willing to donate because the donation process is a lot less painful.

But as stated earlier, I'm not sure it would generate enough cash anyways to make it a worthwhile project of Nokia's.