Maemo 6 / Harmattan on N900?
 

Hi there,

I've been lurking the site since n900 was announced but this is my first post, yay!

And here's the question: is it known whether the harmattan release will be officially supported on the n900?
Haven't found anything on it after searching for a while, and it would be a nice thing to know.

See ya!

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

No official word on that yet. Note that we don't know what Harmattan will bring hardware-wise, which might very well influence that decision.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Pending some major hardare changes which bring some incompatibilities (like the switch to OMAP3 in Fremantle from Diable based hardware), the mlve to QT softwarewise should not be an issue in Harmattan running on N900.

But this is just an unofficial community take on Harmattan move.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Thanks for your answers.

I think someone from Nokia should state their position on this before the device is released. I know they are going to talk about Harmattan at Maemo Summit, but that's too late.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

it will all depend on how long it will take before the switchover happens, and how much nokia feels the pressure to get new hardware sales going.

the more nokia feels the need to do some major hardware bump before we hear anything about harmattan (remember, N900/fremantle is not yet out there for people to use, so its at least a year away) the likelier it will be that there will be no harmattan for N900.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

This question was asked in the interview with Dr. Ari Jaaksi and he said they really dont know!

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

what is harmattan bring to the table that maemo 5 doesnt already do...

i really just thought the aim for that was more towards the older tablets since the hardware was dated in comparison to the n900

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

well, the N900 starts selling here where i live around the 15th October..Summit is 11th? So i will know in time... but in the worst case that Maemo 6 wont be for the N900...does it matter that much? I mean, what could possibly Maemo 6 add/have that 5 doesn't?
I think the updates for the N900 will enhance the experience alot..

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

The main difference with Maemo 6 will be that it uses QT (instead of GTK+) by default. I would guess that wouldn't require new hardware (although I'm sure new hardware will appear at the same time), but who knows.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

I think maemo 6 will be a more main stream version with carrier subsidies and other lock ins. Of course all the features will be updated without any major bugs wheras now we will have a significant number of bugs.

I would say the n900 will have more value than maemo 6 just for geeks.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Isn't the release date supposed to be around October 1st?

Anyway, yes, I know Fremantle is already a very powerful platform, but it is still not perfect (missing proper portrait mode support, some important parts are still closed source, ...). And even Nokia has stated that it is just an intermediate step towards something bigger, so I'm guessing there are a lot more nice things on the way. If this is coming out in, say, six months, I wouldn't like support on the phone being dropped so soon.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

it should not, but in the mean time cortex-9 may be shipping in some form or other, and nokia may want to launch products based on it. And i am not sure how compatible cortex-9 will be with cortex-8.

basically, harmattan may not need any hardware bump, but nokia always wants to ship new hardware to keep the money flowing, they are in the business of selling things, after all...

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Don't forget there might very well be Intel based linux devices from Nokia in the future. If this bloodline includes Maemo 6 devices (which is a missing part of the puzzle), current Fremantle class HW might be sentenced to Mer, too.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Big obstacle in Maemo 6 on N900 may be supposed openess of the former.
According to various sources Maemo 6 may have completely open GSM stack and probably camera stuff. We don't know how open source code may work on closed hardware parts of N900.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

this situation for me is a bit...stressful...i need a new phone...and i want the N900 coz it has everything i want, but on the other hand i hear about Maemo 6 coming in a year and probably not working on the N900...so i have no idea wheter to buy a crap phone (like some S40 device) and live with it a year+ to wait for Maemo 6 or grab now the N900 with Maemo 5...i just don't want the N900 to end up being something like a N96 (no big success)...and when i buy a new phone, i always buy it so that it will last 3 years...gee..so far to me it looks Maemo 6 will have a new UI, better apps and community support... but hey, if i buy the N900 (which is one of the best phones, if not the best, out there), i won't make a mistake, right? i know that we will know everything at the summit in one month..but im just upset about it a bit lol

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

First of all the n900 is not a 'crap' phone. One year is a lot in regards to technology and even that is not sure. It took almost 3 years for a hardware upgrade from n800 to n900. I hear that omap 3 is pretty advanced and the next generation is only an incremental update.

If i were you i would definitely buy the n900 especially since members in this forum have been waiting for ever for a hardware upgrade!

Sorry my bad i did not read the comment well enough.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

@Jack6428

From various posts on Qt related forums looks like Maemo 6 interface should be very similar to current. Just engine behind it will be different. On the beginning apps also will be coming slowly and community support will be also better for Maemo 5. 3 years maybe no, you should get solid 2 years from N900.
And maybe Maemo 6 will be working on it.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Although I'm not really seeing intel CPUs on the direct roadmap, which could be used in phones (even Atom uses much too much energy).

So that might be even a step further (or I oversaw some mobile processor announcements from Intel).

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Too late for what?

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Hang on, I don't think the situation is that Maemo 6 probably won't work on the N900. At this point we're just guessing, and there's a good chance that it might work.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

They certainly were not talking about today's Atoms, not even Pineview, but likely Medfield (which is supposed to have a phone/mid edition, and has a scheduled appearance for late 2010). But, all of this is far-far future and ARM/TI is sure to bring some goodies to the table in the meantime as well :)

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

The phone is apparently going to start shipping on October 1st, so if Harmattan support is important to you, whatever is said on the Maemo Summit is too late.

I already have the device pre-ordered, and I'd like to know these things beforehand.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

It would certainly be nice to have a more detailed roadmap. Just not likely.

Moral: don't predicate your purchases on unknowns. Buy what meets your needs and don't sweat the rest.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Well, I did pre-order the device, you know :D

It's really just curiosity. Seeing how maemo 6 will probably include more cool stuff which would be nice to have.
Anyway, the community is probably going add A LOT more value to it with cool apps and I hope to contribute as much as possible, too. Being nearly a full blown computer I hope we'll have enough flexibility to add any features Nokia decides not to backport.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Whether or not nokia supports maemo 6 on N900 it should be easier to backport compared to maemo 5 and n770/n800 .

I'd guess the successor of the N900 will have 512 MB RAM and 1Ghz CPU.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

And Maemo 7 should be coming about a year after that.

I love not helping.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Well they really need to make a plan for something like this i mean android have updates OTA so you don't' really have to change your device in a sense only reason would be is hardware limitation hence G1 and donut debate. Maemo should use the same methods people can't keep coughing up 700+ dollars every year.

Sounds like something Apple would do hence there 1 year iphone deal (upgrading it every may) only difference is its subsidized so unless they subsidize the n900 i think that will be kind of foul.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

My God-- EVERYTHING I'VE BOUGHT WILL BE OBSOLETE!!! :eek:

Gadsby's not the only turd around here.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Nokia has already stated that the N900 will be capable of OTA updates. The only real question about updates is will the N900 get not only normal updates but fully upgraded from Maemo 5 to v6 when it comes out in a year or so. From what I've heard so far that has maybe a 50-50 chance of happening.

If so no doubt that would be nice, but it's probably not critical to a N900 being useful for at least a couple of years. Didn't stop me from pre-ordering a N900. There's always something better just round the corner anyway.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

Both the timeframe for Harmattan and its likelihood of being released on N900 hardware are complete conjecture and speculation at this point.

Re: Harmattan on N900?
 

He said he's considering to buy a crap phone, like an S40 based one to tide him over til next year.

Ok, your first sentence seem to conflict the latter ones..

That sounds like a good reason for people to upgrade their device :) Apple and RIM should start up their semi-open developer incubation program, leave them stranded in a small forum somewhere for 3 years, then the device they release afterward will be a guaranteed commercial success :D

Maemo 6 on N900
 

Just a quick question. Is it possible to upgrade the Maemo5 OS on n900 to Maemo6 when it becomes available? I know nokia will somehow modified the N900 and call it N910 by using the Maemo6 (and few modifications of course) to make your N900 look silly (obsolete).

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Search, Search, Search, Searchbutton, Ho!

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

See the article from SlashGear on the Nokia presentation today:

http://www.slashgear.com/maemo-6-ui-...irmed-0959800/

It may come down to the same problem we have with Maemo 5 on the N810 - the hardware won't support it.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Nokia needs to rework their ideas about phone support.

They're still stuck with the idea that they make a custom build of their OS for a particular phone model and then move it into "support only" where they make minor tweaks or bug fixes.

Apple changed all that completely. People now expect continual updates for their phone with new features and new applications. If Maemo 6 comes with features the N900 cannot support then obviously it can't have those features but there's no reason why it shouldn't get everything else.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

I don't get it. I own a 5800 and have received firmware updates over the air. Even the n95 was updatable in the same way as is N97 today - kinetic scrolling added this way.

Let me know when Apple starts OTA updates.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

This is no phone. It's a computer. If Nokia decides that their new operating system requires a Gizmagish Physics 3D chip, you go find another OS.

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

I think people are losing sight of the context within which all this OS evolution is taking place.

The mobile [internet] device market is in its infancy. We're taking toddler steps right now. Hardware is evolving at one heckuva pace. Radical changes are afoot. This isn't like the progression of x86 hardware, where we could expect successive versions of linux (frex) to work on older hardware.

If Maemo6 doesn't support the N900, for whatever reason, there is nothing to prevent the OSS community from taking any modular compatible improvements and back-porting them to Maemo5.

It's far too early to be getting a bee in our bonnet

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

i agree 100%. it's a real shame that Nokia has not been able to upgrade all S60 devices. certainly this has been discussed before, especially with regard to hardware features tied into S60 firmware releases. however, on the other hand, you streamline your code management and release(s) across say 1 S60 release, 1 S40 release and 1 maemo release. if you have an older device, the kernel should recognize this and block out any features not available on the specific platform. on a related note, seeing the announcements related to Qt on N900 today is gonna be great. in the future, you'll have the potential for 1 code base for your project that can include support for multiple operating systems. that's definitely the way to go!

Re: Maemo 6 on N900
 

Couple of questions for you.
Why can't a first generation iPhone surf on 3G speed?
Why cannot iPhone 3G take advantage of applications that uses compass?