User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Everyday I'm seeing people say "this forum is not user-friendly", "this site is only for developers", and all kind of similar things. This post is addressed to them, but, of course, anyone can give their opinion.

Most of the time I use my tablets as a simple user, but well, I've become a developer through the years, though when I bought my 770 I couldn't write a single line of code. And after almost four years, I consider myself an advanced user.
Therefore, I may not be seeing what the real problem with this site is and many users seem to talk.

So I'd like to know what I, as developer and advanced user, should do to make this site more user-friendly.
What are these problems of user-friendliness that some people are talking about?
Should we developers go somewhere else and leave here only users?


PS: I'm talking about technology issues, not personal issues between members (there are problems between users everywhere, in real world even there are wars).

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I haven't been around here all that much, so my opinion doesn't make a difference, but in the short time I have been here, what I have noticed is that some people mistake not being interested as not being user-friendly. I mean, if there is some idea that gets too little support or something like that, it is not automatically non-user-friendly situation. Sure, there could be also less friendly behaviour too, but my take on things so far is that people expect help/support way too automatically and when help is not immediate then they perceive the forum as not user-friendly

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

It seems its always been a mix which is good. But new users are often confused about devices and os versions and what they can and cannot install. What is safe to use and what is hacked up.

Some of these things could be addressed directly, but perhaps a tutorial of what to expect and how to use maemo.org What new user should know, how to register accounts, how to get karma from thanks. Lots of intricacies that perhaps are not clearly outlined.

To me some kind of mechanism to only view "end user" threads, and some way in my profile to then be able to enable viewing advanced user thread could be useful. Some kind of WARNING could be shown saying that the instructions following some of these threads could cause you to lose data or could damage the device? Not sure if its possible or even a good idea, but it may be worth considering.

Now that our beloved device is a phone, you don't want half the end user base coming here and messing up their device and have to reflash and lose data, this will not be a good.

Or perhaps a NEW user interface with a tutorial and some reading and learning before getting a full interface?

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Glad to see this thread. Most new users are used to sharing or promoting ideas within the forums, but this site uses the Brainstorm section for this. This is fine, but it isn't evident when you get here that that is the way it is done.

Also, when you go to the Brainstorm section, its not organized or easy to navigate. Nothing is categorized, and some of the jargon used is foreign to non coders. Then you realize that even though you registered for the forums, you aren't given access to the Brainstorm section. I first thought it meant it was only for registered developers, but you have to register again just to participate or post a Brainstorm.

Also, I know you didn't want to focus on personal attitudes, but there needs to be better moderation and a code of conduct. There needs to be someone willing to help give advice on the resources of the site. Developers develop and users want insight and new features, and these two don't always have the same agenda or speak the same jargon. There needs to be a developer advocate and a user advocate.

This site is huge, and all of the resources aren't easy to access by default. No design can fix that. We need ambassadors to welcome and indoctrinate new users.

An identifier should sit on user profiles as to who is a Maemo or tech blogger, user, developer, Nokia employee, OS/UI/UX designer for Maemo/Nokia, etc. because some position themselves as experts, but that isn't always evident or true, and you can't tell how accurate advice is.

Just a few things I noticed.

(I'm here all day. Feel free to talk via PM if you want more input.)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Interesting. These fora used to tag each user with Junior Member, Member, Senior Member based on post count, but that was deliberately abandoned as part of our preparations for the flood of new users. We decided we didn't want new users to feel intimidated in discussions because other participants had fancy labels.

There was some discussion of moving in the direction you propose, but in the end we decided against it. That's not to say the idea isn't worth revisiting, of course.

The Nokia employees who participate here do so voluntarily and mostly on their own time. They participate on an equal footing, as community members, and like it that way. They're not interested in being corporate PR drones only reciting the official company line and legal disclaimers at all times. They've warned that were they tagged with "Nokia employee", they'd have to stop participating.

That's obviously counter to what we, as a community, want.

Beyond that, it's difficult to pin down most community members with a one or two word title.

• We've lots of cool, small apps turned out by otherwise not-developers who pulled together some Python to make that one tool they wanted.
• We've also lots of repackaging and quick ports of existing Linux applications. Are those who bring such items "Developers"?
• The genius behind, say, a mapping application might be tagged "Developer" but be less knowledgeable than "lowly" "Users" in a discussion on, say, installing an RTCOMM update.
• We've several members who are adamant that they're not developers or programmers, but they've turned out some of the coolest hacks on Maemo.
• We also have some "Users" with extensive platform knowledge who can, and regularly do, answer questions that would stump many "Developers".
• And so on.

You've mentioned that there's a working system in the Symbian forums along the lines of what you propose for here. Would you please explain in greater detail how it works?

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

As a new user who does not know Linux, I do not find the fora (I do know Latin) unfriendly, just intimidating.

One suggestion would be to pull the Newbie forum up from the basement and put them at or near the top of the home page.

Also make it a policy not to criticize (or get snarky about) questions asked there that have already been answered before. As one who tries to research answers myself, it is sometimes hard to determine which posts are applicable to your question because many answers assume knowledge that you may not have from the particular version of software or hardware that existed on the date of the answer to what the heck is a sudo.

Still, I find this an incredibly useful site for learning.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Hi, I was one those actually pushing the Newbie forum in the archive. The reasoning was that such Newbie forum seemed helpful for newbies at a first sight but actually risked becoming the ghetto for newbies and a (kind of) justification to be less friendly with them in the rest of Talk.

The will back then was to be friendly with everybody anywhere. I agree we should remind this to ourselves more often. If you think you have seen personal attacks these days you should have come earlier this year ;) but this is of course no justification.

Talk is probably getting in similar circumstances as any territory receiving a flow of immigration in a reduced period of time. I believe things will settle in the following months, with most discussions speaking about concrete things in your hands, as opposed to (still) a big % of speculation.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I don't even think it is unfriendliness(sp?) even if it might read like that. It is just a completely different way of communicating and doing things, not only between geeks and non-geeks, but also with consumers and people coming from open source community backgrounds.

I for example get tired pretty fast, when I see people who are itching somewhere just talk about how bad the itch is and don't try to do anything about that, like asking people how one can build or help build a stick so you can reach the itching part of your body.

The "consumers" (and that is not meant as an insult) on the other hand don't know where the wood is stored, who is capable of carving and who has the knife so the carver can do his work on the wood. Or that there even is wood and a carver and someone having a knife.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

@range

There is also someone in between, the person like myself who knows exactly where the wood is and has a good idea of what needs to be done, but also knows the phone numbers of the master-woodsmiths, of whom to ask for explicit instructions in order to get my carve on.


(I had a hard time with the wood analogy, in case you didn't notice ;))


|||EDIT
That was weak, after re-reading, so i will beef it up with two previous posts I have made in regards to this subject.

I, btw, started the TMO is a friendly place movement ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat (Post 322003) I don't write code. I have trouble troubleshooting, because I find it a little too difficult to figure out exactly what went wrong when something goes wrong. I consider myself to be an enthusiastic end-user. I enjoy this community because I can try things, and when they don't work as expected, there are members who are willing to spend a little bit of their time to help me sort it out. In return, I try to field some of the easy stuff when I see a question that I either know the answer to, or have a good idea about. Sometimes I even get something cool working and write a rediculously long post about exactly how I did it. I'll be the first to admit that on occasion, I am known to snap at someone and/or talk sh*t, but that's just a personality thing that I (suppose ;)) I need to work on. Anyway, my point is that I came here with a general "common sense" knowledge of what was to be expected. This may not be the place for "extreme noobs," but is definitely the perfect place for anyone who a) knows how to work google b) is willing to do a little bit of searching. and c) is curious as to just what you can get these tablets to do. I'm glad to be a part of it all. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat (Post 334025) @chris I must just be a very easy person to get along with. This forum / community was very welcoming to me, and has managed to help me with all of my problems. I have a hard time believing that your users urged you to start a forum in response to how unfriendly / unhelpful this one was. I think the regulars around here are great. In fact, there's only a very small handful of members that, when asked, I would say are jerks. Also, mind you, I know far less about mobile devices than you do, of that I am sure. I had never even heard of Maemo or Symbian or internet tablets before my laptop's mobo fried and I had to find a temporary replacement. I just don't get the negative generalizations made about this community (most, it seems, from contributors to other tech sites)... I'm too lazy for links right now, but yourself and ricky cadden to name two off the top of my head. (Not trying to start any sh*t, but it happened). I'm just an end-user. But, I feel like I'm part of this community, and I try to help people with problems whenever I can (until I find a job anyway). So, by calling the community unhelpful or unfriendly, you are calling me unhelpful and unfriendly. And that hurts.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Yeah. So you are like me. I'm no developer, I spend most of my "free" time on a different open source project. Which means I know that I have to ask if I can not solve it myself. But which also means, that I might know better where to ask than the "consumer" does, because I am used to the infrastructure. And BTW: I hate web fora, but this has so much more traffic than the maemo mailing lists ...

Oh, so did I :)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

See, that's what I hate about web fora - you can go and change your posts, so the answers to those posts might seem off a bit after that :)

Another thing about unfriendliness: Just because people post terse and to the point without much ado around it, doesn' t mean that they are unfriendly.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I don't think things around here need to be 'fixed'. Been through this kinda situation before when waiting for the first G1s w/Android to be shipped.

IMHO what's happening is a lot of posting by users, both new (like me) and old, gettin' bored from running out of things to discuss and speculate about because they're collectively going slightly crazy waiting for the N900 to actually get in their hands and settle some of these endless arguments.

Once the N900 arrives the tension of the wait will be released and everyone will get busy figuring out how to use them, helping each other with tips, etc. and we'll all be friends again...

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

New user here and it seems fairly user friendly to me. Like myself it seems to have a fairly low tolerance for idiots, but that's just natural selection trying to rid the world of *****s. A good thing in my opinion.

If you cant figure out how to use a search button on a forum, perhaps you should not be looking at getting a cell phone and maybe we should hide the sharp things in your house :)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Congrats. I remember when I welcomed you to the forum -- doesn't seem that long ago, certainly not long enough to get 1000 posts.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: get a job! :p

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

In this economy, I might have to give you a big break :D

I'm just glad I'm starting college now and not finishing :) :eek:

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Just the other day I was monitoring a thread, trying to learn and imagine from a members code sample (I do not have the SDK installed) when BAM, the next post is a cut and paste cross post pointing to another members Brainstorm. It came crashing through and just laid there all hot and steamy disrupting the continuity of the thread.

I responded in that thread that it was off topic but I didn't realize it was a cross post until I went out into the main page of the forum and found that just about every thread in the active topic bar was one that the same, out of context Brainstorm pointer had just been posted in. In a subsequent forum thread that was authored by the producer of this advertised brainstorm I asked; why cross post and thread crap in active threads?

Cross posting is unproductive and considered rude by some, the reply I received was that cross posting was necessary because nothing was getting done and that the author represented a group of people who wanted an answer now. < (paraphrase, but the actual conversation is recorded in that thread).

I replied that the end does not justify the means, to which he replied that this place wasn't very user friendly along with a statement that I hadn't helped him in the past, as if he had asked (he hadn't) and I refused.

Now I see this thread and I am confused?

Internet Tablet Talk and now talk.maemo.org are about the friendliest tech forums I have encountered. There generally seems to be a balance of contributors that step in to help, or steer threads away from the rocks and shoals that all threads on every forum must navigate. I have been short with my answers at times but when I am, someone will point it out and I will acknowledge it and apologize for it. I can honestly say that I have never seen where another member hasn't done the same when given input from another member.

However, we all have operated under a common code of conduct that hadn't needed to be expressly presented as "Rules".

Perhaps now might be the time to revisit this thing called "rules" starting with cross posting and thread crapping. Since this conversation was avoided in the normal course of that thread and it has now morphed into a defense of our "user friendly" status. I fear that cross posting and thread crapping will become acceptable and a member’s ability to follow a developing idea in an individual thread will be lost. I can only speak for myself but if this does become the norm, this forum will become useless to me as a learning environment.

Another item that could be addressed is links to commercial sites in signatures. What I see now are mostly small and tasteful but where do we draw the line?

Can I advertise my brother-in-laws insurance agency? How about porn sites? How come he can and I can’t? Can I just post a coupon code so that I get a discount?

These are all user friendly questions that will be coming with increased membership.

Now before anybody comes at me (with or without wood). I like the fact that we are not overly moderated and do not need to post stickies at the top of each forum with rules. I want to keep it this way but not at the cost of usefulness.

We have demonstrated our user-friendliness in the past and we either accept who we are, and be dang proud of it... or; allow others to incorrectly stereotype us as a cliché that needs defending.

Irony?

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I have been here only few days and already I know what you are talking about. I might be totally wrong about what you are referring to, but I don't think I am. There are people who think that if they don't get participation or immediate support to their cause, the other people are being rude or unfriendly.

Seldom have I thought with valid reasons that not doing something is actually unfriendly or rude. One can never know the reasons behind one's actions when there is none, but it is way easier to see rude or unfriendly behaviour when such actually does occur. Lack of something, in my opinion cannot be defined rude nor unfriendly. Rude and/or unfriendly, by definition in my books, calls for active participation with aforementioned attitude.

So, to all of you out there thinking t.m.o is unfriendly, think again. It might just be your expected standards that define what is what, not the forum in question.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Guys, what range is saying here is subtly profound.

Technically-oriented people really do speak a different dialect than others, and this tendency even cuts across languages and cultures.

In addition, we tend to be efficient to a fault when it comes to sharing of information, and that works against newcomers, especially those lacking a highly technical background.

But all is not lost, for at least one person has taken it upon himself to smooth the entry into this crazy place: Den in USA. He is tirelessly and dependably greeting newcomers in a warm, basic manner that the rest of us could learn from.

I am with Quim: I think improvement is coming organically, and it will be led by people like Den in USA. Given the new direction of the products, change is going to be a necessity.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I really think that we need to get the FAQ in the Wiki as robust and up-to-date as possible, then you can link to that when someone asks a common question.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I believe it would be wise to create a 'How to' section and move all content for new users and also slightly more advance users like myself in that section (no gainroots though). The wiki as such is confusing and often too complex for non technical users. Maybe some parts could be reorganized and moved to a HowTo section. Other content like tutorial videos etc. can be posted there. The better the information is organized and easily accessible to a wider public, the least newbie questions will be posted.

Recent newcomers are not, in my opinion, representative of the average customer of Vodafone in the UK who will get there N900 (apparently) for free. They are like early birds who do some research, read specifications and possibly manuals, are curious about technology and its use in their life, and have at least basic knowledge of some vocabulary. At least in English. Think of those who aren't even fluent in English...

Also one should keep in mind that new customers who will access the site will be more interested in getting information on the N900 and might be a little lost in he plethora of posts and articles about other devices.

But as in any kind of dynamic and flexible context change will come on us from the influx of new users and other sites and fora will pop up to offer more easily accessible information. And we will all be happy, and I hope also those who maybe bought something they didn't really understand or are prepared to handle. However this should not exempt us to be welcoming to new users in the DenInUsa style pointed earlier by Texrat.

It's 5.30... I was able to read and follow this thread after my 3 years old daughter woke me up to sneak into our bed (as usual) more than a while ago. :-)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

That would be a major help. Part of the problem is "up to date". For example, when researching opinions about putting the device in standby versus turning it off, I came across a number of posts regarding problems with metalayer-crawler but they seem to be a year or more old and tended to reference the N800. I still don't know if the problem was resolved by OS2008 or Diablo or the N810 or changes to the service or the apps which call it or if the problem still exists. I only know that I haven't seen it. I assume that an experienced user has an internal knowledge base that includes knowledge of where things stand now but that is hard to access if nobody writes it down.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

First things first, we need to listen. When someone gives a critique of the site, its best not to enter into denial, but seek what makes them get that impression. The user friendliness is mostly a reference to the deluge of information that could probably be better organized.

I went from a user to an ambassador, advocate, and hacking resource for S60 in a short period of time. I appreciate the knowledge I gained, because I got it from the various forums over the years. It is this which breeds the service mentality in me. I feel obligated to share my knowledge of Symbian, and seek it for those in the lurch.

I think the best thing we can do is be more helpful and respectful of the new people coming in, and realize we are unintended mentors and guides. People don't come here for news, but help. This is supposed to be the official home of Maemo, and we have to carry that ambassador torch for that reason. This isn't like AAS and SF for Symbian, unofficial portals. This site is a Nokia sponsored initiative for all Maemo user's benefit, not just the elite.

On the idea support front, its bad business and PR to oppose any user features, especially if its a senior member here. By default, you're smarter and more influential in the Maemo space, and attempting to block anything on any open source platform is counterproductive. It repels newbies and frankly turns people off to this venue. As I now know, there is a brainstorm for opposing or promoting things, and blasting ideas in Talk instead of merely suggesting the idea be posted as a Brainstorm is a bad idea.

There is almost too many resources available on this site, but they aren't categorized or presented properly, imo. I understand this site is a work in progress, and that work needs to continue. And we can't deny our positions as sherpas. We need more moderators here, too. We need to help each other more and flame and blast much less, and someone needs to be an outside voice that doesn't favor anyone but is just a voice of reason and a "cooler" or "bouncer" to keep the peace and quell the regular firestorms I see here. I've experienced many of them, having been the center of most of the ones mentioned in this thread. Many posts have been sanitized, but the treatment of me and other new users has been outright bad sometimes, and there is bad blood between many of the new and old heads. I get pretty defensive and vicious when I feel attacked or disrespected. I'm a pretty reasonable guy, but I don't like being treated badly for trivial reasons.

On the identifier issue, we still need it, and not just something based on thread count. I'm a notorious "chat style" poster, and I don't think thread count can be a good identifier of knowledge. Why not give everyone a USER badge by default, and anyone with advanced experience can earn the "power" or "master" user badge, and anyone with "any" coding experience the chance to earn a DEV badge, with a senior member being the one recommending them.

We also need a "promoter" badge. I've been a Nokia proselyte for almost 4 years now, at my own expense, and not paid as many assume. I serve by nature, also participating as a mentor to various youth groups as a former gang member. I like helping people. We are here to help YOU as well as ourselves, and it hurts the Ricky Caddens and others of the world to be so ill received and abused here. We're free commercials for you guys apps and devices, and we bring visibilty to the OS that can't be matched. We should at least get a pass on some stuff. We're in the trenches, and have to find out about stuff and still find time to disperse news and whatnot, and then we usually have to work regular jobs to fund all of that. It'd be nice to be appreciated once in a while, but I've seen most of the bloggers talked about like we don't read these posts. We're new here too, but we're on the same team, guys. This stuff is foreign to us, and we're doing the best we can.

I know geek speak is not always friendly, but we all have home training. Politeness and respect are universal, and not too much to ask. There's a difference between geek speak and being called stupid, having ideas called useless, and having others have side discussions about you as if you are invisible. We're a community, which means we live here together. Not everyone is going to play all the disrespectful talk, and it usually gets the same thing back in return. People will say,"You seem to be the one starting so much crap..." but don't realize the posts that started alot of the drama are now gone, and people do so much "behind the back" talk about others without stating names like we're stupid, and I know it makes me livid. In the streets, we say, "respect every man's gangster", which means we're all men and women, and should be treated and treat others that way, no matter how we differ on a subject.

The issue isn't the speed of solutions provided to users so much as the way people are rude with newbies, and not helpful but condescending. SF is a community of young users, and I'd be mad if my 15-18 year old child was involved in some of the flame sessions and rude comments spewed around here. This is a community, but its not home. You live with others, too. And the rude comments disguised as jokes are just as bad BRATAG.

"New user here and it seems fairly user friendly to me. Like myself it seems to have a fairly low tolerance for idiots, but that's just natural selection trying to rid the world of *****s. A good thing in my opinion.

If you cant figure out how to use a search button on a forum, perhaps you should not be looking at getting a cell phone and maybe we should hide the sharp things in your house "

That was so tacky. Rude as hell. So new users that find this site formidable are idiots and *****s?! They don't need a cellphone?! This is classic apathetic behavior, and that's the stigma around here from the word around the Symbian community that coud easily be fixed with a little empathy and manners. We can read, you know? I'm sure you probably meant it in jest, but it isn't funny if you're the one referred to. I fight for the little guy everyday, and i don't like the elite attitudes that flow around here.

As for YoDude, this isn't just your forum. It is all of ours. And you can't enforce rules that don't exist because you don't like them. And approaching me calling my efforts to gather people together "crapping" isn't going to get you far with most people. I'm a pretty headstrong guy, but I'm always open to suggestions if put the right way. I never saw an alternative of how I could've drawn the audience for my thread and Brainstorm. I got alot of "answer me" and "how dare you", not a single "let me find some people that can help you" or "next time, just...".

You have to realize new users are lost here, and we get little help from the coders and designers. Brainstorms aren't getting much exposure without some sort of beacon to draw them there, and that was what I was trying to do. I don't see how finding threads where people had experience with screen rotation code and asking them to help on a similar project for Fremantle is so offtopic.

I see the threads as chat rooms of people with similar goals. Communication here is easy if we all act as brothers and work together and end the crony class that rules here. I got a big response by suggesting something that may interest others in a very much related thread, and only you complained, so maybe we should allow what I did, or maybe you should post a Brainstorm asking that "cross posting and thread crapping" as you so rudely call it, be banned. I don't see any harm done, but maybe you see differently. I see you in most of the same threads as myself, and rarely hear a helpful word from you, with actual dev experience, and still am waiting for you to join in the Brainstorm mrojas and I have worked on, but you can sure police me just fine. If you're the police making all the unwritten rules, I don't doubt you'd find it friendly here, but that others don't should open your eyes that something is broken. We DEFINITELY need rules and a code of conduct, and some authority to enforce them, not just some "other forum member". Structure and governance is good, especially for an independent free thinker like myself.

In regards to links in our siggies, I noticed them here even a year ago, but now that I have one, you find issue with it. My link is a site to promote YOUR WORK, this site, and Maemo and mobiles as a whole. I put it there so people would know I was a promoter, and stop thinking I was just asking questions for my own pleasure. It shouldn't matter, but evidently it does here.

I really think we should bury the hatchet and let go, but it starts with you. I don't like beef unless its on my plate, but I seem to be a cause you want dealt with. Why not work WITH me. I could use your help...

We're mostly all grown men and women, and we should be able to work together. Just remember being wiser than another is a gift, and with such gifts come humility and service to others. Its our obligation and in the best interest of Maemo that we work for a common goal, and that's that everyone have a say, and the platform is an OS controlled by the community, not an oligarchy of super geeks. Its bigger now...

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

omfg chris, not everything revolves (;)) around your incessant desire for screen rotation.

YoDude has every right to voice his opinion.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Where? Please point to the post or posts.

What I did do was ask you this:

What I don't get is the fact that the forums you advertise in your signatures have rules that forbid the behaviors I questioned yet you target me as if I'm the man or Suttin'



http://www.symbian-freak.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=227

http://www.symbian-freak.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=398


Now instead of an answer to my question you follow me into threads and make unsupported accusations and implications.

I get it.

You're an ambassador and have diplomatic immunity or something...

I'll keep my mouth shut from now on.

...but please leave me alone.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

http://www.stephenkozik.com/downloads/joss.jpg

Everytime I hear the term Diplomatic Immunity, my mind goes to that guy... :)





("It's just been revoked!")

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I'll only respond to this portion and withhold comment on the rest.

In general, you are spot on, and in fact this is a pillar of my summit presentation.

That said, I'll be the first to admit I fail at it. That's why I added "Listening without judgment" to my signature. That's not an admonition to anyone but me-- persistent reminder of what *I* need to do. It's just a suggestion for anyone else.

Change doesn't start with others, as I keep telling my kids. It starts with ME. So now I'm listening to myself. And if I'm the only one here who does, so be it... but I will work hard at being more of a solution than problem here. Feel free to call me out, anyone, any time I don't measure up to that standard.

Let's form a community, folks.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

your all as bad as each other and need to grow up and work together.
It's all started over the portrait stuff and i must say i was appalled to see some of the comments from older users in the original thread it made this forum look like the most user unfriendly forum ever and i commented about it at the time.
The ppl who don't want portrait mode can just switch auto rotation off if it did become supported so i see no reason why they needed to gather support to kill the support for portrait to happen.
but theres no such solution for people asking for portrait they cant just flick a switch in settings to make it happen.
The only way nokia can keep everyone happy is make Portrait happen and put a switch in settings to turn ASR off like there is in s60.
Work together on ideas instead of against them and this will be a much better place

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

(this is somewhat of a general statement, but...)

Regardless of attitudes, this is (and IMHO will continue to be) the single GREAT place for information and help in regards to Maemo and Maemo devices.

I just visited *a well-mentioned Maemo forum that is currently residing inside of an existing phone-tech forum, but will soon be made into it's own*, and I have to say that there is no way that it will ever replace (or come close to) replacing this one. There's no expertise there.

Maybe the price for great advice and information is dealing with a little rudeness.

It's fine by me.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

who ever come up with them tags killed the whole spirit of this debate when we are talking about user friendliness of the site
well done you just proved the case for it being user unfriendly by trying to provoke people by using a Chris vs landscape tags

New direction for user titles?
 

Would anyone else like to put forward any thoughts on user titles?
Are you against them?
For them?
Do you like christexaport's suggestions (above)?
Do you have ideas on an alternative scheme?
Would you like to have each user's karma displayed? (an option discussed in the past)

And just for a bit of history, the thread and poll that led to our current, title-less state:

• "Improving Member Levels: Less Threatening, More Fun"
• "Poll: Member levels, let's decide"

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I brought up the user title/badge thing not long ago and it went down in flames. Some very valid con arguments I had to admit... but I'm still interested in seeing suggestions.

Re: New direction for user titles?
 

If affirmative, please create a Brainstorm proposal.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

If you find abusive or inappropriate tags in this or any thread, please alert a moderator. Some folks in the fora do enjoy using the tag feature for...entertainment purposes, but moderators can clean up anything over the line. In addition, we can see the creator of each tag, so if someone repeatedly uses tags inappropriately we could take action.

(On a lighter note...)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Perhaps some sort of "guru" tag attached to certain members (by karma?) could help new visitors find people with knowledge, thus at least partially helping cut through noise to signal... assuming the attribute was searchable. In fact, we could voluntarily attach tags to ourselves indicating areas of expertise along with volunteer status IF the forum supports such a thing, and again integrate that into Search as well if possible.

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

How about users that habitually verbally abuse and physically threaten other members. Can we do something about THOSE? I've put one on ignore already, but it's a shame that person still has an account here IMHO. Just sayin'...

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

Nope...not you...We're all good AFAIK. I don't think I've ever seen you post a threat of violence, either :D

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

YoDude, I've come to realize we're just not ever going to be friendly to each other or work well together, so I tend to try to ignore you and run when I see you in a thread, so I'm definitely not following you. Nor am I speaking about you all over the forums in disrespectful and comical terms, or barraging your threads with the same post you managed to paste above, "demanding" I acknowledge you. (I'm 6'3", 215 lbs, and not used to anyone trying to push me around or demand anything from me)

I've tried to do a complete 180 on my attitude, and many have noticed. I suggest you follow suit. We all make mistakes. I've left you alone, and you still are full of one liners and attitude towards me, and that's fine. But its making you seem the bad guy. I'm glad the light is moving to you, but I really just want to get things done, not fight with you.

You don't mention all of the foul stuff you said that was removed, nor the multiple disruptive serial posts ("I'll keep bringing this up...until there is at least some acknowledgment that thread crapping is unproductive in a forum and cross posting is considered bad form" over and over again... Remember that??) with the same edited image in my threads demanding that I acknowledge your stance on my methods for drawing an audience. You can play nice guy here, but I'm not fooled by your fake innocence, dictatorial demands, and elite attitude. I know what purpose you have in my life, and helper isn't it. So I'll stay out of YOUR way.

Since you think my forums, which AREN'T linked here, just the news pages, apply to anything here, here's what you fail to realize:

"What I don't get is the fact that the forums you advertise in your signatures have rules that forbid the behaviors I questioned yet you target me as if I'm the man or Suttin'"

This isn't SFF or MFF, but TMO, and those rules were set for those sites, not this one. We don't allow jerks, either, but many are here and never banned.

From the rules section of MY forums...
SPAM, posting in different sections, reposting and advertise-postings (also in avatars) will not be tolerated, users will get warned or banned
This is in reference to people that try to sell iPhones, just like on this forums. Its not a classified ad, but a forum. Posting in different sections is about making the same thread in various locations, not posting in multiple threads. We usually let common sense rule, and put helping others as the first rule.

I didn't see putting my sites up as advertising since our stuff will be posted here, and we even allow exceptions for certain users. Some put their site as their name, but I didn't get that chance, and wanted Teo to if anyone did. I just wanted to let everyone know I'm representing my community, not myself. When the rule stipulates that I remove it, I'll oblige. But we're not a for profit organization, and we operate out of our Administrator's pocket, which is admittedly not deep. We're a service.

I like rules, but this site doesn't have clear cut ones just yet, so you shouldn't be trying to police me. Try putting up a brainstorm and letting the community decide what's best, not trying to run how I'm doing things. I see us on equal footing. We're members of a community, and that's it.

I guess you're not familiar with the Ambassador program for Nokia's many efforts. That's what I'm referring to. But if you plan to keep your mouth shut, hallelujah. Prayer works. Just stick to it. I haven't said much to you since you acted like you were my father, and it will stay that way. I've better things to do, like get this ASR thing moving...

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I don't intend it to. It will be focused on uniting the users with the hackers and devs. This is our home. My forum is for another purpose, and once the device is out, content will come. It didn't exist just a couple months ago, so its slowly building. (you can say it is our site, bro. no need to hide. We'z fam! ;))

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

I don't like the final site layout, so not sure, Jay. Should've been today, but we're behind with all of the news in the Symbian world. When we do, I hope you can be a voice of experience. We need more. Most of them are here right now, but once we get the device, you'll see we have alot of talent on board. We did hack S60 afterall...

and texaslabrat, please forgive me. it was totally out of character. I'm pretty fiery by nature, but was totally stressed out and not dealing with conflict well that day. I talk to inner city kids about anger control and conflict resolution, and I put the worst example of myself forward that night. I was out of line and embarrassed myself. Can you give me another chance? I'm not all a..hole. I'm pretty cheeky too. (you can laugh, right?)

Re: User-friendliness of talk.maemo.org
 

You can already register for the forum from the Symbian Forums. They're combined, and may stay so per user request. We're in flux, and its just me and Teo, but by all means register! I'm glad to have a fellow musician around.