1930 mah battery...
 

Since the 5800 and the N900 use the same battery, would this work in the N900? I'm ABSOLUTELY excited about this! getting near 2000MAH!

http://cgi.ebay.es/HIGH-CAP-GOLD-BL-...d=p3286.c0.m14

check it out :D Let me know ;)

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I have wondered if you could do something like this without hurting the phone. I upgraded my G1 battery from the standard 1200mAh to a 2300mAh and did not notice anything negative.

Is there a reason NOT to do this?

-- AM

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

It's OEM sized.... That's what tickled my fancy.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Uhm, so how have they supposedly managed to make it 1930mah on the same battery technology and the same space? Sounds pretty dubious... And is the manufacturers name supposed to be "Original"... And the sale packages design is copied straight from Nokia.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Yeah, I know. It's what makes me wonder.

You've never heard of Original? They're the best battery makers out there! LOL.

I know it sounds really wako, but I was looking online to find some more BL-5Js (local) and that one came up as the second one! I am seriously considering buying an extended battery for the N900 when they become available (with the appropriate back). But hey! If I can get an OEM sized extended battery (if they ever really come out) then I'm all for it!

I wonder if there is an app to check the MAH of a battery for Maemo... I wouldn't mind testing it out. It's not that expensive. But I'd need an app to test out the MAH used.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

NiMH AA batteries are available with capacities from 1500 mAh to 3200 mAh, so I expect that Li-Ion batteries may have some variance in capacity per cubed millimetre as well.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

You can sometimes find the exact same battery sold from different places with very different specifications. There is some variation, but sometimes the shop just chooses to stretch the truth far too much.

The 1150mAh battery I currently have in my Palm PDA can sometimes be found advertised as 1500mAh, which is way above what's possible. People have measured this particular battery to vary between just above 1000 mAh to around 1200mAh.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

So this leads back to my question:

Is there a reason to or not to use a battery with a higher mAh than the retail battery?

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

When li-ion/li-poly batteries go bad they go extremely (violently) bad. So, I tend to trust vendor-original batteries more than unknown ones. Some 3party batteries don't have the very important built-in protection circuit, for example. So, without knowing for certain, I won't trust them. But that's just me

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

No, if you can verify that they truly have a higher rating and comes from reputable producer.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

And you can be sure that Nokia won't start doing the same evil tricks that Panasonic are pulling ... ?

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

In theory it should work just fine. Just two problems with it.

A: Will it be rated capacity, or not? Nobody knows, hard to test subjectivly

B: It's not a nokia battery, there have been cases in the past where there was a lot of fuss about using a 3rd party battery in a nokia device, losing warrenty, broken devices and especially getting very hot or even burning.

My personal opinion is to just try it. See if it gives you better battery life then before doing your tasks and it if lasts longer, great! Share the experience! :)

I have a Canon Powershot S60 with a factory battery and a cheap alternative battery which is suposed to have about 350 mAh more. I think they lasted the same in the beginning and over the years the cheaper one has lasted less and less long while the factory one remained strong. But hey, it only costed 1/3rd too.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

No.

But unless they have some kind of smart (non copy-able) chip on the battery, they'll have to do their battery verification by measuring the electrical properties from the opensource device :D

Well ok, let's hope there's no locked down proprietary binary blobs around it.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I wholeheartedly agree with you sir. I had one of those extended batteries and after a few months I started to notice the back of my phone swell and there it was, a slowly expanding battery doomed to explode in my pocket.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Well, that's just scary. Lol. I've seen that happen on my OEM blackberry battery. But I've had the berry for 3 years :P I'm surprised the battery has lasted me as long as it lasted! Lol. Oh well.

Well, regarding the larger capacity, I've seen applications (for Windows Mobile) that actually tell you the mAh expended in real time. So I kept that app open, and watched movies until the battery died. That was my test. usually +- 20 mAh is acceptable to me. But since this is Maemo, and I've never seen this OS at all or have looked for apps available as they're in repositories, I can't really check. But it's strange to find an app to monitory mAh consumption.

Regardless, it's all about trial and error. Since that battery is listed to be compatible with a 5800, would anyone dare to try it out? I would, but I don't have a 5800 :( Otherwise I would do it.

I'm soo pumped about the N900, I'm already buying backup batteries :P. This is going to be a great phone, as long as the keyboard is decent. And I'm going to need to get some decent battery life as well, even if I have to put it in GPRS/EDGE mode. On my Blackberry Bold I can't get a full day out of 3G. I doubt the N900 will be able to on a larger screen & with 3G on. So that's why I'm planing on getting the spare batteries. I'm thinking about buying this 1930 mAh battery. It's a really low investment :P until seidio comes out with one (doubt it, but they make EXCELLENT extended batteries).

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I have used plenty of aftermarket batteries. Do yourself a favour and don't bother with them especially the ones on eBay.

They lie about their actual capacity.

They are unreliable over time. They tend to lose capacity a lot quicker.

They tend to cut corners and are not safe... I've experienced one which exploded and another which bulged.

The big corps tries to source the best battery cells. They want to make their devices as small as possible and do not cut corners with safety. Some aftermarket entity doesn't have the same resources nor are they going to be better...

The only aftermarket batteries that has lasted longer are those with bigger dimensions and comes with its own custom battery/back cover. Mugem seems to make quality batteries. Just search for feedbacks/reviews

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I've seen them, but they're HUGE and they usually take a long time to develop batteries for them. But I imagine if they have one for the 5800, then it'll work for the N900, and all you'd need is a DIYS Nokia Battery Door Kit! Home Depot anyone? Lol. Someone get out the easy bake oven and some clay! We're making an extended battery cover :D

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

In practice there's only about 3 makes of 2700mAh batteries that actually get close to 2700. Sanyo and Titanium brands for example. Everything above, and indeed most 2700mAh AA batteries are inflation by marketing ;) Since most consumers are unable to test, and since most consumers probably torture their old batteries to near-death before buying new ones anyway, they always notice an improvement...

Even the mugen batteries, which seem to be highly regarded here, have inflated claims and don't come close to their stated capacity. The big ones with new cover have better capacity than Nokia original though :)


That ebay battery claiming to be made in Japan... Is that chinese text on it in Japanese font or what?:D

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Well, given how much money that OEM's make off of aftermarket stuff, and given that all the printer companies have done this to lock out competitors to this rather lucrative cash cow market, forcing the previous 3rd party vendors to switch to remanufacturing, it's not hard to believe that the other companies will do the exact same thing. Of course, a little hack and patch and you're back to 100% again with a 3rd party battery. The only thing that'd stop them from selling the battery is if the OEM made it a DMCA offense to hack the firmware or fake who you really are.

As for the question of battery capacity, your total number of cells determines your top end charge capabilities. For smart batteries with smart circuits, and a unified cell design, you simply control the maximum charge by changing the cell firmware. So by rights, a 1200mah battery and a 2500mah battery of the same size and form factor are identical (assuming the unified cell design), save for the cell firmware.

Now as for the 1930mah battery, I call fake on that. It's got too much that cries fowl about it.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Gold battery, lol. Type BL-5J clearly meant to sound genuine.

Also, by using what majority uses, when these batteries are known to go bad they are recalled. Well, except in case of one certain corporation...

Yup. Using any third party battery voids your warranty.

Although sometimes you need to resort to unofficial solutions like Badcaps.net I'd not do this with new device under warranty with a good battery. Instead, buy a second official battery, or buy a 3rd party battery when your primary battery has gone bad, or wait for a battery with a brand name and good track record (and therefore good name to defend) such as Mugen.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Hmmm, I was under the impression it was more a factor of quality, similar to how CPU processors which may all churn out from the same fabrication plant are binned according to speed, and obviously their cache has to function. (or they may turn into crippled Celerys of yesteryear)

In my long ago days of R/C car racing we'd always pay more for higher capacity cells. Cheaper cells (fewer mAh) were also less likely to be matched (putting simiilar charge/discharge curved cells together in a pack). I can't imagine even with lithium-ion batteries companies would make high capacity cells and put them in a pack, cripple them with limiters (in a very loose sense) and then sell them as lower cap batteries. Maybe I'm misunderstanding Lord Raiden's take on what I quoted above, or "smart battery" production technology does not agree with me and appears wasteful and costly.

I would hope that even the cell/portable device battery industry would work in the same manner, giving legitimate reason for charging more for a battery with higher capacity- because they are either harder to come by (elite picks from the QC department) or they cost more to make.

I won't speak for misrepresentation of capacity by foreign knockoff battery brands. We all know we take risks buying cheap. YGWYPF

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

That is going to be VERY tricky to do, since the sliding camera door is partly over the battery at the moment. If you want a bigger battery in the same slot, it is going to require some differently shaped batteries, at the least (they can't be a constant thickness for the whole length of the battery).

But a new third-party back cover with a big kickstand would be nice.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I'm always sceptical when it comes to cheap batteries. I've managed to bloat a couple of cheap lipos (while charging, with a proper charger. Talking rc batteries here) without doing anything wrong. If you're not there when it happens, so you can turn it off, things go bad. Very bad.

Here's a youtube video of some finnish rc guys demonstrating the bad mentioned above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWdnjLqVWw

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Anyone has the gear to test this battery and compare it to a stock BL-5J ?
Also on the safety/construction side afterward ? :)

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I would chip in a few bucks to the purchase of this for testing :P I'm just curious! LOL.

But I will be purchasing a second battery and an external charger (so I don't need the battery in the phone to charge it, that way every morning I'll have two ^^) hehe.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Well, you are right in the fact that OEM's will sell inferior batteries in the lower MAH categories, just like the chip makers sell chips that can't be clocked to full speed as their less speedy siblings. But if they can't get enough of the lesser or "semi-failed" units to fill the orders for the smaller capacity batteries, they'll simply "downclock" (to use a cpu term) the higher capacity batteries to fill those slots.

As I said, to save money they use one common battery, and then label and program them based on how they perform. So if you had the bios code for the smart chip, you *could* take your battery up to the higher capacity, but then it may or may not give you full capacity and may risk some nasty side effects. And again, this is using the unified cell design, similar to the BP-4L and others like it. This doesn't apply to the ones that use separate cells, where more cells = more MAH, such as laptop batteries.

Another side note. Laptop batteries and multi-cell designs tend to be "dumb" batteries, in the fact that the smart charging chip is actually on the unit itself, and not the battery. Smaller devices like the NITs, phones and such have to offload that work to a tiny chip on the battery itself.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I'd be dubious about the battery too, but here is a device that measure battery discharge capacity (mAh). http://www.californiasailplanes.com/supertest.html. It says it works with NiCD and NiMD batteries, but it should work for any battery. I'm not sure of the normal load on the battery (mA), but I'd pick the 125mA setting, as to high of a setting could damage the battery.

Here a pricer option:http://http://www.siriuselectronics....roducts_id=348

The basic test method required integrating the battery's current over time. This is most easily done by connecting the battery in series with a current meter / multi-meter and a resistor (appropriately sized to give a reasonable current draw on the battery). Then measure the current over time (shouldn't change much till the battery nears the end of it's life). Plot the data; calculate the area under the curve and you have the battery's capacity in Amp-hours or mAmp-hours (depending on the units used). Assuming the maximum current draw on the battery is 100ma @ 3.7V, you'd need a 37ohm resistor (or something close). If the battery really is 1950mAh & you only drawings 100ma, this test would take 19.5 hours.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

That product is only or RC toy batteries, and it's a bit dated considering it deals with the <1000mah battery group. What you need is a battery tester that specifically tests Lithium Polymer batteries.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I just ordered the N900 today and also have a G1 with 2,300mah battery. G1 lasts two days with it (but no 3G radio on).

I will be interested in this battery for sure.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Apply Occam's Razor. Surely if such high capacity batteries were available, that did not have any downsides, Nokia would be using them as OEM?

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I think the biggest head-scratcher is why didn't Nokia just use the 1500 mAh battery. I mean just the space wasted by the stylus would be helped squeeze it in

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Nah, the stylus is good. I would have thought it would be useful on such a high DPI screen, where things can get very small in some apps. I would also much prefer to have the ability to sketch and take handwritten notes than have a capacitive touchscreen with multitouch,

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

True, those device are targeted toward RC, but that's only because the RC crowd has an ongoing need to determine if their battery packs still have a usable capacity after countless cycles. The device in the 2nd link lists Lithium batteries. The type of battery only seems to determine what voltage the device stop measuring/discharging, which could easily be overcome by manually measuring the voltage and disconnecting if one is afraid of over-discharging. Both device can test 10000mAh

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I think I would rather they put a firmware lock on batteries and be ripped off, than risk it blowing up in my pocket because its a poorly manufactured fake.

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Just give me a USB-connected wrist strap with an interior surface which absorbs and converts my body heat into energy to charge my device.

Heh, look hard enough and someone's probably already done it: http://www.jamesdysonaward.org/Proje...ct.aspx?ID=568
(might have to click the blue English button)

We need someone here to start assembling some, I'm sure a well-deserved profit could be made from new N900 owners.

Here's another concept which we'll see more of next year as they get dealers in other parts of the world http://www.pedalpower.com.au/ Now take your N900 on those rugged geocaching trips with no worries on fading power.

I wish Nokia would offer a simple charging bracket/caddy you could use to charge a spare battery. Don't make it a one-piece unit that plugs directly into the wall like a block, but rather make it modular with a USB interface so you can charge it off a PC/laptop with a standard USB cable if needed or plug it in to a regular wall outlet from the same USB port..

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

I was looking for an external charger. Where did you find one?

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

The correct method for measuring these batteries is not to run with a constant load as suggested, but to present a load which draws a constant power (current increasing as volatge drops). This more accurately mimics the expected use case for this type of battery, which is power some electrnoic device via a dc-dc converter. It also protects the battery by switching off at a predetermined voltage, to prevent cell damage.

I have an electronic load available, like this one :-

http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Sea...026&pDo=DETAIL

I don't have either battery, but if one of each (plus some method of charging them) were available, it would be trivially simple for me to test them. The load just logs voltage and a current into the PC, and switches off the load at the damage level of the battery automatically. I don't even have to be there!

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Though you'll probably wish you were there if some cheap knock-off battery burns down your house. :) (I assume you test it while stored in a metal bucket or something similar, but I couldn't resist. :) )

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

Sadly, if you test enough of these things you get a bit blase about it (until one actually *does* burn your house down of course).

I kept a failed Electrovaya Powerpad on my test bench as a demo piece for several years. these things are 16V 8Ah and about the size of an A4 writing pad.

This one swelled so much it was about 3 inches thick in the middle!

Re: 1930 mah battery...
 

This is a interesting concept, but I presume that it is rather pricey. What about using one of those old dynamos for the headlight in your bike? Just add some clever electronics and a Micro-USB connector and then we have a very cheap, noisy and inefficient but fairly entertaining charger on the go for the N900... :D