100% Free software handheld
 

Noticed there seems to be more people reading this forum than in the #Maemo IRC channel who are interested in having an actually free/open handheld. I suggest we all collaborate on the search... maybe we'll even end up with enough people to have some weight in requests with companies ;)

http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=%23FreeHandheld
Please don't join and leave-- stick around! The channel won't grow big enough for discussions if everyone is only there for a few seconds each!

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

What to you miss in the current ones?

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Better yet, how about a 100% software handheld. That way, we don't have to deal with any of this proprietary hardware business. :-X

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Great, how about you guys organize yourselves in off-topic?

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

keesj: OpenMoko lacks a keyboard and decent specs. OpenPandora doesn't exist yet, and might never at its current rate.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

In case you missed it OpenPandora has set out an email that there's 100 units left for preorder and that they are starting their first batch production run in october 2009 so that is this month ;)

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

With OpenPandora's track record, I think at this point only a fool would pre-order. With the currency changes over the past few years, the original pre-orders will end up paying significantly more than those who order when it's immediately available.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

That's a way too generic statement. For myself, as a pre-orderer, I can say that I'll come out ahead by a go bit.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

You might wanna take a butchers at Replicant

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Not to mention OpenPandora is not a 100% free handheld. For a start, it has closed OGLES drivers.
But of course you'll at least be able to boot it from battery with only free software.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

The OpenPandora community working on a FOSS version of OGLES.

@ Luke-Jr: I will support this initiative for Maemo 100% FOSS.

The opening of the software should not be solely for technical and financial reasons: in this case, it benefits only for companies.

The opening must also be done for ethical and social reasons, so everyone benefits: companies, users, hackers, etc. ...

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Same with the Touch Book.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

And what do you miss in terms of features the N900?. What do you want to open?

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Doubt it, but care to point me to an URL?

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Please wait, I search...

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

You mean http://forum.openhandhelds.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=341 ? But as you can read chances are dim, and even dimmer are chances of a free driver to be any better than the Imagination one.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Ah, you've been faster.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

javispedro, as far as I've seen, OpenPandora has been promoting their product as 100% free, including GLES

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Well, I'd love to be corrected since that would mean we could most probably reuse them.
But as it stands, I'd say that if you've been looking for 100% free as in freedom hardware, look somewhere else. I wouldn't consider the Pandora guys interested in 100% free software/hardware more than "something that works OK and is hackable enough".

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Any completely open device is going to be a few generations out of date because hardware isn't released with open drivers. I'm willing to use closed-source drivers on my handheld because it means it can use the most cutting-edge hardware at a reasonable price due to economy of scale. On a desktop, 100% open is a more acceptable goal, but in the frenetically advancing tech of mobile devices, the compromise is just not something that is economically (market) viable.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

There is no reason in principle why the hardware shouldn't be released with free drivers and or open specifications supported by the manufacturer, just as happens with Intel and ATI graphics on desktops. Open drivers are not a liability, they're a feature.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Actually, that's not true. There are two ways of keeping one's intellectual property secured. One is through the use of patents, wherein the method is fully disclosed with the understanding it will be legally protected, the other is known as a trade secret. There are legal protections of some nature for both in differing degrees depending on country. I am 100% sympathetic to leading designers keeping their drivers closed to hide implementation details and optimizations the designer would prefer to keep as a trade secret. Anything revealed for patent purposes can and will be ripped off in countries where patent protection is not enforced or not provided. Reverse engineering can reveal trade secrets, but it can at least slow the process down so that some money can be made before the tech is absorbed into China's bank.

As i said, i would prefer fast, modern technology in my device to 100% open drivers. While the two aren't mutually exclusive per se, in practice you don't see it happen because companies want to keep their advantage and with it, profit margin.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

What is it you're saying? That OpenPandora is the Duke Nukem Forever of the Linux world? :D

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

If you look at Linux desktop distributions, the FSF only "blesses." what, 6 distributions? Out of 300-ish? Debian is not even considered completely free. And from what I can tell, Debian and Maemo are non-free for roughly the same reason: Hardware drivers. As with my desktop system, if Nokia makes a hardware decision to use better hardware versus open drivers, I'm all for that.

But thats just my opinon.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Yes, but no.

In maemo, there is not only in drivers that are proprietary code.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

No, Debian doesn't include any non-free drivers. FSF doesn't endorse Debian because they do have an (independent) repository of non-free software. Maemo is more like Ubuntu, except that AFAIK Maemo's non-free bits are legal.
Well, some of us actually care about freedom. And keeping their drivers proprietary doesn't make the hardware better. It's not like the battery charger is someone else's IP-- nothing is stopping Nokia from releasing that code at least.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Except for their lawyers telling them it's a liability issue.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Maybe they should hire some lawyers who understand computers better and spend time considering the question. I'm a lot more likely to explode a battery working blind than I am with commented code.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

It's not -you- they're worried about. It's the fact that no matter who put their hands on the code, the name on the phone and the battery is Nokia.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Same situation if I have to work blind.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Some of us have also been bitten on the arse by non-free drivers before; somewhere in a cupboard I've got an old Sharp Zaurus that was rendered completely impossible to update by a single proprietary driver (for the SD card, of all things). It is a serious worry that Nokia plans to hand over maintenance of obsoleted releases to the community, but the community may not be able to maintain them.

People that don't care about this sort of stuff often claim that they're being pragmatic, but really they're blind optimists just hoping for the best. A pragmatist wants to make sure they don't get locked out of supporting their own device.

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Hey, now Maemo, N900 and everything related to us has oficially been discarded by Nokia, would be worth a try to convince Nokia to release the whole Maemo 5 components, so it can actually be improved by the community?

Re: 100% Free software handheld
 

Highly unlikely. Discarded means discarded-- we have precedence with N8x0 and 770 on this. Releasing source requires legal review, which costs Nokia time/money.