N900 - convince me
 

Ok, let me say up front I probably don't belong here. I'm not a developer, and I don't know much about linux (I'm not even sure how to pronounce it, having heard several variants!)

But I do believe in taking my questions to the people who might be able to answer them meaningfully, and I hope that's you good people.

I'm looking to replace my mobile phone, and was almost completely sold on a SE Satio. Until I spotted the n900, and did a quick "wtf?" - why had no-one suggested that?

I suspect the answers to that were along the lines that mobile phone vendors don't necessarily think too far outside the box, which had meant I'd looked at the hero, the i8910hd and the satio.

Let me say that I work my mobile phones hard. My phone doubles as email, sms, diary, shopping list, bible, library of novels, pdf and office reader, calculator, mp3 play and (particularly) camera (and probably a few things I've forgotten). It was that last which was the appeal of the satio - great looking camera, with s60 software with a massive amount of 3rd party apps.

Now, given the carl zeiss lens, I might be prepared to sacrifice the amazing se camera for a serious improvement in speed/accessibility. My problem comes down to available apps.

At the moment, the nokia site lists three apps as 'coming soon'. None of them are what I want.

So, aside from selling me the whole idea of the n900, what is the current situation as regard apps?

I read your thread about a Bible app: that's what brought me here. But frankly, looking at the stuff about using rapier, at the moment it looks like you need a fair amount of prgramming knowledge and confidence to install it. So is there going to be a Bible reader? What about, say, one for Olive Tree? I need something that will function offline as well as on - can't go online in hospital, for example.

Equally, will there be an app available for e-reader?

Does the n900 come with something that will display powerpoint? and read docs?

Here's a silly one: I've used a little java shopping list programme for years. I gather maemo won't support a java environment?

And what about a dedicated twitter app? Something like gravity?

Finally, I've seen something that will install another software 'virtually' - how does the n900 function if I do that and run it, say, as palm.. which would enable both olive tree and e-reader software to run on palm? And does that require a degree in programming?

Ok... sorry to go on. I was almost at the 'click to purchase' on the satio when I found this... and I have an awful lot of questions? Do you nice people have any answers for me?

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Listen.

Probably because Maemo's been a relative unknown until now having only recently become a cellular phone platform.

Maemo is a scary thing for the existing cellular market. It's a bit of a game changer as it's the first really open mass-market cellular device. ;)

Based on this alone, I'd say if you're the type who's at least a little adventurous the N900 will be perfect for you.

Don't worry about that. The community is hard at work getting all of their cool applications for Maemo ready. You'll see a lot more stuff in Maemo Select in the coming weeks and months.

Most of the developers are only just getting their hands dirty with Fremantle. Expect a flurry of activity to come out of the Summit and soon after. The current situation looks grim if you don't know where to look, but things are definitely happening. ;)

All it needs is for somebody to step up and make it happen. Whether that person will come can't necessarily be predicted, however.

Yes! FBReader has been on the platform very nearly since day 1. The Maemo 5 version still needs work, but it's coming along. Be aware that FBReader does not handle DRMed ebooks, however.

Documents To Go should be available, and there's always Google Docs.

Nope, but we do have Shopper (Maemo 5 version is coming).

Mauku (Maemo 5 version is coming).

That'd be Garnet VM, which is pretty straightforward to install and use. However, I'm not aware of Access's plans for Maemo 5.

Hopefully.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Thanks for typing all that out. I'm getting lazy in my old age. ;)

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Thanks! That's tackled a good few of the questions. I'm a little uncertain about the lack of drm: I have a good library of DRM novels from ereader.com, and a fair collection of drm music files too. Currently I can use either on an n95, though neither would work on my c905 (which is one of the reasons for dumping it - the other being it's cr*p).

I will certainly defer any decisions until after your Summit and see what transpires. My birthday kindly falls just about when both these toys are released, and I'm sacrificing a holiday to some work so have holiday money to spend. Was planning to wait for the locked models to reach people's hands and find out what the response was before I actually purchase.

I really like the 'look' of the n900 and the smoothness of its handling appears to outdo anything symbian can achieve. On the other hand, if I want a mobile computer, I have a netbook in the front pocket of my handbag (and one shoulder lower than the other...)

I'll keep hunting for information!

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Depending on the formats, there certainly are options for "freeing" the DRMed stuff if you wanted to pursue that.

And who knows, we may start to see DRM-enabled commercial readers make it to the platform.

Yeah, the pocketability thing really takes it into another kind of usage, though. The netbook isn't something you can whip out anywhere to answer an email, look up a song title, check product reviews, or find the nearest drug store with. ;)

Re: N900 - convince me
 

You don't have to be a developer to be here. :)

Re: N900 - convince me
 

I agree (as an end-user). I don't know where this perception came from that I hear from new users recently that this is a forum primarily for developers!

Re: N900 - convince me
 

exactly...or do I look like an expert? :p Well, when it comes to sleeping and being lazy, shure, i can give advice...but anything else is beyond my capabilities :D

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Ok, few more questions: does the n900 have a sound recorder? I found one review claiming it does - but it also claimed mms and java capabilities, so I'd take that with a pinch of salt. One of the things I'm going to need over the next few months is a decent mp3 recorder - and I'd prefer not to have to buy a dedicated piece of kit.

In fact, to be honest I'm finding a pile of reviews with quite conflicting info about exactly what this phone does and doesn't have. Several places say java - do they just assume it will? (The same seems to go for mms). (I have also seen places that claim it will recieve analogue TV and carry two sims - but that was in the States, so I'm guessing it has a different spec out... unless I'm supposed to carry a freeview box in the other pocket...)

Another small item I can't spot is speaker phone... surely? Or is that also taken for granted? (Actually - just seen that option in one of the videos, so it would appear to be 'yes but we didn't bother to mention it' which may also be true of mp3 recording?)The same goes for 'documents to go' one review says its included as read-only - others don't mention it in the specs. I usually rely on gsm arena as the most reliable spec/review place... but I'm not confident even about them this time!

I gathered somewhere that the Nice Machine will actually be available for sale to those at the summit... can I assume someone here will get an 'as sale' version and clear all this up?

I am also assuming the nokia and friends will invest fairly big time and fairly soon in creating some Very Easy to Install Apps. Apple are selling the iphone on its range of apps right now, so if nokia are after that market, they need to be competetive. Open source is a brilliant idea... but not if you need to speak perl to actually install anything. (Speaking of apps, I see tweetdeck runs on ubuntu... now there's a port I could get behind - and if you're thinking about it, you have customer here who believes in donationware and actually does cough up a few bucks for a good piece of freeware!)

I actually dreamt about smartphones last night (including my late lamented treo 600!).

I can't help feeling that this is the nearest I have seen to what I am seeking - which is best defined as "A thinking persons iphone".

Re: N900 - convince me
 

You should read this very detailed preview of N900:

http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Really nice! I am sure that I am more lazy than Zerojay :)
I only read the first 3 parts, but you'll get A+ if you kept all your posts like this.

By the way, I will never pronounce 'Linux' as 'Li nuks'. (remember Linus himself is from Finland and this affect the way he pronounce.

The common pronouncing is either the Linus way, or "Lin niks".

However, the only thing RevdKathy will gets trouble with for now is how to pronounce maemo :P


Again, I just wanted to clear things up, I don't wana someone when I talk and saying Linux in the way I currently pronuce to tell me its wrong.


//Augh, I am late! time to go!//

Re: N900 - convince me
 

LOL -- this is a keeper. :) Thanks for that.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

As an aside, I've heard people say "Lie niks". They are probably (mistakenly) thinking Linus pronounces his name the same way that Charlie Brown's friend does & guiding off that.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

I love May-Moe Lie-Nucks! :D

Re: N900 - convince me
 

You don't go into your device history but I would offer these observations.

First, I wouldn't expect commercial apps very soon unless Nokia is paying for the development. I understand this may be the case with Dataviz's Documents to Go but I have not heard anything regarding eReader. Using eReader as an example (but this applies to any commercial developer), the OSs they support are pretty standard. They don't support any of the new Linux based phones. If you are trying to determine where to spend your development dollars, I would guess, based on the installed base, that Android and WebOS will both get focus before Maemo comes into the mix.

Second, you will begin to see a number of non-commercial apps. Some will be awesome, some will be useful, some will be both, and some will be neither. Unfortunately you will be at the mercy of the development community. I came to the N810 and Maemo from the Palm TX and PalmOS. After two years there is still no PIM application for Maemo 4 which can hold a candle to the standard Palm PIM suite, much less something like Pimlico's DateBk. I find I don't need the advanced capabilities I used to have but your situation may be different.

If you can afford to do without some software, the hardware of the N900 and the potential of the N900 are greater than that of the Satio. If, on the other hand, if you really need your phone to do something specific, don't buy promises.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

You don’t seem to understand that nokia is putting is entire future in maemo. Of course there will be applications. This will be more than another geek tablet, it will be the high end phone from nokia. Here in Portugal there is publicity of the n900 in every street.
But I guess you’re here to promote palm…
:p

Re: N900 - convince me
 

I dont believe Nokia is betting on Maemo. Its another weapon in the giants arsenal. Symbian is much more fit for purpose and proven. Maemo is Nokia's solution for the upcoming LTE/4G standard.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

No. I gave up Palm for Nokia.

I'm just saying that if you need something done, you don't buy a promise you buy what will do it today.

I like the bleeding edge but only for things that are not critical to me. The N900 has great potential which will not be realized the day it is released. That does not make it good or bad in general but it does need to go into people's buying decisions. For some, having apps trickle in and be in true beta status initially might be fine. If I need to reboot because the movie I'm watching hangs, I can live with that. For others, they may be using their device for more important things. If they need to reboot in the middle of a presentation because it hangs, that may not be acceptable.

I bought my first Palm Pilot because of what it could do out of the box. I came to appreciate its potential years and many versions later. The same could be said of the original iPhone and I suspect the same will be true of the N900.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Wow, I love that tag line ...

Re: N900 - convince me
 

This has been posted elsewhere but it's applicable to your question. Nokia has just turned up Maemo Select. There are a number of high quality applications which will be available for the N900 when it launches. I am particularly jealous that Maemo 5 gets Evernote. That would be a killer app on my N810.


http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/applications/

Re: N900 - convince me
 

It didn't really get Evernote (as in the full thing). It just has support for taking pictures, tagging them and sending them into Evernote. Which is something you could already do on the n800 with email (it's more streamlined basically).

One day hopefully there will be a native app. Their web interface is a little to slow.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

It depends on the implementation. In its true full implementation (in Windows, for example) you can import documents and web pages as well as pictures. Plus you can create typed or handwritten pages directly and you can add typed or handwritten notes to the imported pages. Then you can not only tag but also search the entire notebook. And finally, the search includes character recognition for both handwritten input and characters in pictures (like a picture of a business card).

Re: N900 - convince me
 

I think that the N900 is a pig in a poke right now. No doubt it will eventually have the features the OP wants, but when? If I was planning to spend big bucks for the N900, I'd wait to read the hands on reports of users like me before committing myself.

But the OP sounds like a nice addition to this community.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Thanks for the compliment! And I'm afraid I think you're stuck with me.

I came within inches of ordering an HTC HD2 (AKA Leo). The person trying to convince me that it was what I wanted ended up saying "No, go and get yourself this maemo thing. And bring it back for me to play with too!"

She showed me the photos she's taken on an HTC... and although I currently drive a c905, I still pine for that Carl Zeiss lens. I do a lot of phone photography (grab phone, take snapshot, upload to blog) and a decent picture really matters to me. The HTC has neither SE software nor decent optics. And the salesgirl drooled a little when I asked about on-device photo editing.

Then she let me play with the capacitive screen. Ugh. Last year I broke my thumb (long story - don't ask!) and it's still a tad uncomfortable to press hard with the ball of my thumb. Which I was doing on the HTC touch. Then I opened the 'on screen keyboard, and successfully typed "Hopw haRDS is it top tpe ion this thjinbgf?" or words the that effect. I even accidentally activated the predictive and got the name of one of her contacts in the middle of it. I've not actually had the chance to play properly with a resistive screen (well not since my treo 600 died of exhaustion several years ago) but my fingers and thumb come with pre-installed stylii which are not uncomfortable to use. I have studied videos of people using both sorts of screen - if someone with long girlie fingernails would like to comment, I'd love to hear!

So all things being equal, I plan to pre-order me a n900 this week. The only remaining question is where: handtec or amazon. Is it worth the extra £20 to order from a supplier I know well?

Which means you lot are stuck with me bobbing up in places and asking you to repeat yourself in short words, asking for apps no-one else thought of, or generally being a teddy nuisance. In return, once I understand things, I promise to take my turn at esplaining them in short words to other newcomers.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

No sound recorder yet.
Javascript in browser, no midp java apps
No MMS, but the community is investigating this.
Speaker phone is supported
No analog tv
No dual SIMs
App manager is really simple to install apps, and Ovi Store is coming.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Evernote's tag is 'Your external memory' - they do text recognition on anything you upload, and index that text, so that you can search on it. For example, I use it for conferences, taking pictures of slides. This allows me to search through the text on slides, for example.

However, Evernote also has support for desktop, etc. so that it is a good cross platform app, IMO, at least for managing information.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

No TV antenna or no TV out? The TV out works great.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Yeah it really is nice, but their clients are currenty limited to Windows and OSX. If you want to use it in Linux your choices are Wine+Windows version (works pretty well and I have it setup that way) or their web version (which is finnicky at times if your trying to edit and do things in there).

But for OCR and pulling up things quickly it works really well, and even the mobile page works for that (on my n800 I just use their mobile page since their regular webpage bogs down any browser on the n800).

Re: N900 - convince me
 

I am also in the UK and if convinced, will probably order through Nokia via Quidco, which gives 10% back, a price of £450. Nokia have a 14 day cooling off period to try it out (though that may be the same for everyone via law).

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Ooh! Where can I find that?

Re: N900 - convince me
 

I'm not sure if I should be posting links to other companies? It's top of a google search for quidco though. I tend to look on there as they give cashback on purchases (in this case 10%) and have been around a few years. I'd rather get it direct from Nokia if the price is the same or there is only a minor difference. A friend ordered a computer from Mesh via that website and got cashback, and I did a couple of years ago with a Vodafone contract and last year for an o2 sim.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

I guess a wikipedia page wouldn't hurt though :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quidco

The official website is linked from there. It's a short page.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

That would come in just under the £50 paypal limit. So I wouldn't have to give out bank details. And I'd have money in the paypal to spend on other things, too. ;)

Re: N900 - convince me
 

In EU, yes, 7 days.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Can I ask you a question....

Do you guys think that the N900 will be a good messaging phone / device? Keyboard, OS, build quality (not having the screen snap or fly off because of constant sliding)...

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Operative word being "think", I think it'll be fine in build quality. All he reports I've heard talk about it having a sturdy build. Also it's a Nokia and I have NEVER had a Nokia phone break, I currently have a slider and I've used it for over a year, it slides just as well as when I got it (even though the phone has been smashed against the ground and various other objects).

I'm sure it'll be a fine messaging phone, though honestly if that's all you're looking for you're probably overshooting the mark a bit, and hence also paying more than you should.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Ohh I know it's expensive, but my PRIMARY uses are messaging. My SECONDARY uses are games, apps, tweaking, VoIP. I'll use those other apps maybe every day or every other day (especially VoIP :D) but messaging will be the most used (email, sms, & IM).

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Well, you succeeded. Took me a while, but I just hit the button at amazon.co.uk. I even activated my free trial of 'premium' to get free one day delivery.

I fear I'm going to need some paw-holding over the next few months, but you've ben very patient with me so far. If you can get this bear up to speed on an n900, Joe Average will have no problem with the n1000!

What I need now (apart from a stiff drink for the shaking) is a wallpaper for my laptop to feed my addiction. Would I be allowed to make one from the Nice Images on nokia.maemo.org?

Re: N900 - convince me
 

Oh absolutely, as long as you don't mind typing with two hands.

I'd say the three biggest out-of-the-box strengths of the N900 are the web, messaging, and VOIP integration.

Re: N900 - convince me
 

As long as you aren't redistributing them. ;)

We also have these pretty maemo.org logos over here which you're welcome to use (and redistribute!).