N900 function compared to G1
 

I ordered the N900 due to the hardware and potential of the OS. I have used a G1 for a year, but am tired of the low app memory, java layer constraint (apps are not as smooth due to this) and the lack of video codec support (due to the java layer restriction).

That being said, I do appreciate the following functions:

1. Texting using the virtual keyboard in portrait mode
2. Voice searching Google in portrait mode
3. Shopsavvy (bar code scanner)
4. Shazaam (ID's songs that it listens to and tags them)

Will I lose these functions with the N900? I would expect to see Shopsavvy and Shazaam, but if the market is not there due to not enough device sales, we may never see those apps.

I guess my main concern is the N900 may be supported almost 100% by homebrew and not by commercial development. I LOVE game emulators and ports (heavy retro gamer), so that will be cool on the N900, but what about commericial apps that also take advantage of the N900 hardware? Majority support by homebrew is great, but need Shopsavvy and Shazaam like apps too.

Please shoot my concerns down in flames :confused:

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

As far as I know - and people feel free to correct me - you will lose all that functionality.

Sorry.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

It seems Nokia plans to make it very easy to share code for QT-based apps between Symbian and Maemo which would mean a lot of possible apps.
But from what I read this will not happen over night. Expect it for sure with Maemo 6. But not anytime soon.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

I figured that Shazaam and Shopsavvy were gone, but you can not text in portrait mode using the VK or do a voice search of the internet either?

Looks like I may be going from one exteme to the other. I will now have great video support, plenty of media space and probably homebrew emulators like MAME, SNES, etc but lose basic functions that I use every day.

I already have a $85 Dingoo that plays MAME and retro console games fine, I might have to cancel my N900 purchase and wait to see what function and apps evolve with the OS.

G1 also plays MAME, SNES, GBA, Genesis, and NES good, but due the java layer, some games not as good as my $85 Dingoo.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Althought they sound like good feature requests!
(Although the 2D bar code that are everywhere in japan haven't really showed up in Quebec and probably the rest of North-America, a bit in Europe i think though?)

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Looks like the n900 might not be for you. Looks like you are more after a gaming platform perhaps?

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Rushmore, I'm in a similar spot as you: Android vs N900. The difference is that I don't own an Android device at the moment.

There are a lot of good Android phones coming out soon (Motorola Sholes, a couple of HTC phones), and there are definitely more apps for Android than for Maemo 5. My impression from viewing the Android apps available is that the Android experience is going to be a bit better for the near future. Maemo 6 is going to be awesome, but there's some pain from here to there.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Its important to keep in mind that in theory MOST programs that run under regular linux can be cross compiled to run under maemo. Thats gives you a heck of a lot of functionality right off the bat

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Seems like the N900 should be a good game device, but I was wanting one device that covers these points as good as possible:

1. Video codec support (G1 is only MP4 and no acceleration)
2. Very good audio
3. Plenty of space
4. Good second camera
5. Flash browser

N900 looks to have all these covered, but looks like I will lose basic communication functions I use everyday.

The N900 is sexy and almost pulled me in. It still might, but it certainly seems I am going from one extreme (weak hardware, good functionality as phone) to the other (STRONG hardware, but weak functionality as a phone).

Being able to text in portrait and use voice search is very handy for me.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Bratag: Very true. The potential is huge, but the wait factor... I may need to bridge the time with the G1 and then get the N900 when the apps I need start flowing.

Mistermix: Sholes seems promising but we still have to deal with the java constraint issue. It bogs apps down and uses too many clock cycles. My inferior chipset Dingoo eats the G1 for lunch in regards to game emulation and cost $85 delivered. The chipset is better on the G1, but it is being beaten to death due to the java layer bite code translation. Also, there are no video options other than MP4 and accleration is also an issue. Seems Android does some things good, but hurts others in the process.

BTW, the low app memory is also an issue on the Sholes and every other Android device on current roadmaps.

Give us the functionality of the G1 and Android in the hardware and OS of the N900. Dang that would be sweet :)

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

What anyone buying this phone must remember is that it is a new device, not yet released AND it is a new platform. Anyone who bought the nokia 5800 remembers how long it took to get a lot of apps available. Today i have over 600 applications available including shazam and many other great applications.

I agree with much of what has been said, Qt will make this process faster going forward and level the overall mobile application world.

I will concede that maybe the n900 is not right for you today but it may be in a few months.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

That's definitely "in theory". In practice, a desktop app is going to need a lot of work before it will be a polished, native app.

Just expand on my point above (that there will be some pain between Maemo 5 and 6), Maemo apps will have to be altered to sense vertical vs. horizontal orientation, and most developers will probably want to convert to Qt from GTK, because that's Nokia's direction. Neither of those changes are trivial.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

I suggest you wait then. Next 6 months you should see some serious android hardware coming out. For me as a dev its the android java env that I can no longer live with.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

I agree on the memory/java issue. Rumor has it that Sholes has the same processor and video acceleration as the N900, but we'll have to see if/how that's utilized by Android 2.0 (which is rumored to be on the Sholes).

I think Maemo has the potential to be a better platform (which means better apps and better performance) than Android in a couple of years. But Android is more advanced today, even though most of the released hardware isn't very good.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

I can tell you how it will be utilized - badly, unless Google have added some better ways of accessing the hardware via the API. Right now the graphics implementation on android is God awful.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

The problem is that there is only one phone running Maemo5, and even then it is unreleased(!). Outside the scope of hobbyists, opensource, I don't think you'll see many commercial applications (free or otherwise) ported to the phone until it sees wider market penetration. Nokia needs to ditch/migrate from the S60 platform and make Maemo available on cheaper smartphones. Otherwise it'll just a be a niche platform.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

BINGO! This is why I am torn right now!

Java bite code translation is a security requirement for Android and holds down app performance and prevents audio or video codecs from being developed for this reason. It will be interesting to see how well Flash works on current device ;) Android is terribly inefficient in regards to resource usage.

Again, I have an $85 Dingoo that has a weaker chipset and humiliates the G1. The Dingoo plays Metal Slug 5 and King of Fighters 2001 perfectly with sound. The G1 is like a slide show and that is with no sound.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Android is dead to me, it doesn't yet support ssh tunnelling and a functional Rdesktop, the 2 apps that make my n810 a device i keep on me all the time

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

The main thing is the hardware. I feel like a moth that can not stay away from the pretty warm light.

Are we sure the N900 can not be used to text in portrait mode using a VK or use voice search for the web? :o

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

However, even if they were to be ported, the functionality that existing Linux programs offer still won't be able to cover the uses that the casual or less technically-oriented consumer is accustomed to and is looking for. Furthermore, as I see it, the main issue with Maemo versus other platforms is that because the majority of the developer base works for their own enjoyment and reward, they usually only spend time on things they want to use themselves - these things are generally different than what the average consumer wants to use. (Case in point: portrait/auto-rotate mode war)

Now there's nothing wrong with that, because their efforts and time are still extremely appreciated, but it means that a lot of suggestions they see as pointless won't be worked on unless more commercial developers see a cash opportunity in it, which will turn off a lot of average users, which will repel commercial developers even more, cycle continues, blahblahblah. Maemo 5 isn't supposed to be 100% mainstream yet, but even in the next step, if the community temperament hasn't changed, I can't see Maemo 6 making that huge of a splash either.

(Did this ramble make sense? It's very early in the morning. xD)

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

I'm working on the virtual keyboard.
I assume shazzam would show up eventually.

I'm pretty confident that with in 6 months Maemo will have the features you mentioned. It will just take time to get there since Maemo OS is late coming to the market compared to other platforms

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Shazzam is in Ovi already isn't it? (for Symbian not Maemo). If Maemo becomes popular I imagine we could see Shazzam for Maemo in the Ovi store too.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

I must admit that two basic abilities to be missing for a smart phone type touch device seems odd.

1. No ability to text in portrait using VK
2. No voice search with browser

These are pretty standard now even for Android phones and are basic functions. Though the homebrew and geeks among us will love the device, most other consumers will be concerned with these misses and the lack of these or similar basic functions will result in less sales.

Oh well, looks like the earliest the N900 will ship is the end of the month, so still plenty of time to think about it. My bet is first week of November.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Android did not have a VK at first. And typing one handed on a VK in landscape is not that hard.

That's an android only functions. On all the other smartphones you have to actually install the google app, and for doing that you need to have actually heard about that function. So I'm pretty sure most non-poweruser smartphone buyers never heard about that.
Android powered phone are still a minority.

Shazam should be easily portable. I mean all it does is accessing the mic recording the song playing and matching the audio footprint to their library.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Thanks! The more you refute my posts, the more likely I am to not cancel my N900 order. Keep em' commin' :)

So you CAN text using the VK in landscape mode and the keyboard closed?

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

I imagine so, considering there's both the hard keyboard and a soft (on screen keyboard that can be brought up). Though it appears that there's no longer a stylus use on screen keyboard, only the full screened on screen keyboard (which leaves about half an inch to an inch to see what your typing).

On other devices (n800/n810) you could use both the stylus keyboard (a tiny keyboard meant for use with the stylus) or the full screen soft keyboard or if you had the n810 also the hardware keyboard.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

There is a thread about 'which applications do you want to see on Maemo'. You could post some of the suggestions you made here; especially Shazam, as its an application. Shopsavvy, is a concept which has room for far more interesting possibilities, but I if such is developed, it will take time.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

Shopsavvy does not look that hard to duplicate. I gave myself a minute(literally) to look into this on the Internet. There is already an open source barcode from image reader library for Linux called ZBar. According to the tarball, it even looks like it has pygtk bindings already made. Just recompile for maemo, fix the bugs and you got the major input mode accomplished. Then it is just a matter of linking it with a backend database or search engine or however Shopsavvy works(they did not really have any info on their website at all).

Not trying to say it is simply a recompile and you are finished but really, this is how Linux apps have worked forever. Someone scratches an itch with open source stuff that is out there and things get better.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

There has been work porting many distributions to the existing tablets, android included.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28904

Android has also been ported to other platforms, including the beagleboard. The beagleboard is a hobbyist platform that has hardware similar enough to the n900 that people have been using it to try the new version of maemo.

Given this background, someone will probably port android to the n900, and probably not very long after it comes out.

I understand this is probably not what you want, but It may also be possible (with some pain) to have an android sandbox running on the n900. Then you could run android side by side with maemo. For all I know someone is already working on this.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

That's easy to fix. Offer bounties for features. Free Software does not exclude making money so if some feature is desired by many users post a bounty for it where users contribute and the bounty goes to the developer that implements it. Or you can even pay to have it developed(just don't forget a contract). Or if you know some coder friends ask them if they want to contribute such a feature. That is all assuming you yourself aren't able to code it up. I know some people have a greater incentive to work when they are payed. Not all but some. Or sometimes that extra cash allows them to take an extended vacation that gives them the time needed to code it up.

There's just so many ways of doing this that people just need to think it through usually.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

True but regular Linux apps were not designed to be used from a touchscreen. It would have been nice if the N900 had a trackball. N900 lack of apps is a real concern but built in apps should suffice for most people.

Re: N900 function compared to G1
 

I just e-mailed Shazam so I'll report back when they get to me. I'm a G1 user who's not dissatisfied with Android per se (except for the Cyanogen C&D), but rather with the mediocre hardware they continually put it on. For crying out loud, I want more RAM, a faster CPU and a bigger screen.

edit: Here is the response I got back this morning
"As the N900 is running the Maemo 5 Operating system, Shazam will not be compatible when the phone is released.

Currently there’s no plan to develop an app. for the Maemo 5 OS but this could change. Full details would be added to our website prior to release."