Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Debate: will the N900 be able to catch average people's attention?

I read an article about the N900 today, an article in a news portal that targets IT professionals. The article linked to THIS video, where Mikko Korpelainen presents the N900. The article clearly states that the N900 is a killer device, it's title is along the lines of "Mobile internet can be this good" and it says the device is very impressive, etc.

And then I read the comments. By people with medium+ tech insight. And they were not impressed.

The discussion went along these lines:

Problem 1: People simply do not believe claims that the browser is better than other browsers. Why would they? It's the twentieth time they've heard such claims, and for most of these people, the only time they actually saw any browser "revolution", was with the Iphone.

Problem 2: People that know what this phone is, refer to the platform as Maemo. That means absolutely nothing to most people.

So, the negative remarks/expectations was met with standard fanboy hostility without any information:

Someone decides again to shed a little info, unfortunately without any value to the sceptical Joe Average:
Enter Ipodphone expert:
*sigh*

A few comments further down:
Once the Linux word is used, a new string of conversation opens. Tech talk. Took some time, considering that this is a forum where the Win/Lin wars are present in comments on most articles. And probably too technical for Joe. But first:

See, you and I know what he's saying (and that he's sorta wrong since you still have to port the packages) but conversation like that would send most phone buyers running.

The next comment states that there will be lots of software because the phone has QT, like everyone should know that those two letters means it has a big developer platform, and then the threads continues with bashing the last Iphoner.

My point in all this, is that this particular instance of debate around the N900 doesn't really give any non-techies any useful information, and on a bigger scale it may just become yet another "this is an Iphone killer" vs "this is just another wannabe iPhone 'killer'" discussion.

The N900 is one of the few phones that doesn't try to be the Iphone. It also isn't a N97 version 2. It's a quite different beast, much more akin to Android than anything.

But if this discussion is a indication, only geeks may ever know that this phone is more than a failed, chubby, unresponsive, heavy, Iphone clone with yet another operating system. This is at a site that is written for somewhat tech savvy people. The article spells out clearly that the phone is very good. And yet, the readers clearly don't see it, unless they already had previous knowledge of this phone from elsewhere. The developers I work with have no faith this is going to be an interesting product. And they ARE nerds and tech freaks.

I am afraid between new Android phones, the iPple people, and Engadgets 2000000 product articles... I am afraid the N900 might in most people's eyes be the N97-2.

Even most people in the target audience.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Having held the N900 at a flagship store, I can see why 'average joe' will not like this phone.

Its simply quite heavy and thick when compared to other smart-phones out there. You would really have to appreciate Linux and 'openness' to compromise on the weight and thickness.

Also if the battery can't easily last an entire day (9am to 1am), the average joe will simply return it.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Few things:

N900 will be (for now ?) the only one device with Maemo 5. It will be expensive (not like some devices with Symbian or Android). It needs some killer features and up to this moment many reviews are speaking about lack of MMS and FM radio, some are speaking about not the best one screen and scratches on camera/covers.

I have downloaded SDK and I wanted to start development. But I can't create software working with Bluetooth (it looks, that real device is required). No SMS API. When you're not in the Finland (Nokia has got jobs in Finland only) or when you don't have connections (you're not journalist, etc.), you can't get device.

Prototypes without killer apps can't make "wow". More devices in developers hands could change situation. Nokia could think about hiring some people from Europe too. It could change situation.

Without it sorry...

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

C'mon man.. Youtube comments are not representative of any sane subset of the public... :D

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

@marcinw,
sorry what do mean you couldn't create apps with Bluetooth? It comes with BlueZ. Though I agree you need some prior knowledge on Linux to develop the apps. But the wiki here has bundle of examples.

Here is the list of API: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/ma...documentation/ and BlueZ is listed.

And I assure you Nokia have wide developers across the globe, not only in Finland. Maemo takes some learning curve. Unlike Apple has centralize documentation or 'iPhone for dummy' from Amazon, it takes a few more steps and patient to adapt yourself.

However, once you get used to it, you will have bundle of choices: Python, Qt, GTK, Gstreamer, OpenGL ES2, BlueZ, ..., etc. Not enough? You could port it yourself? Not satisfied with the compiler / toolchain? You could change it.

Freedom comes with some price.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I think your going to have a lot of misinformed/Fanboy'ish comments for a while until the platform proves itself. Half of them are commenting on things they don't know about and the other half are commenting on speculation.

The iPhone has "spoiled" a lot of users in a sense. The platform is very tight and controlled thus limiting the users access to file systems/advanced features. This has it's up's and down's. As a plus thing just seem to "work" on the phone without mus or fuss. Downside is that you don't have much flexibility within the system itself. You either do it Apple's way or don't do it at all (or go through ridiculous efforts to get there ala Jail Breaking). The average iPhone user probably doesn't even know what a file extension is let alone what files are buried under the gui on their phone so talk of xterm and .deb files is the equivalent of speaking Latin to the average user.

Nokia has to find the balance between giving advanced users what they want AND at the same time present a clean, efficient, easy to understand platform experience to the average user. Something that the iPhone does very well. The sad fact is that there are more average users then there are users who know how to mess with .deb in xterm therefore if any Nokia product wishes to go mainstream the average user has to be the focus.... Unfortunately.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I agree with your observations....although I also have to say that from my perspective, being emotionally unattached to any particular mobile device (I don't own any, the N900 will be my first), part of the problem is that a teamsport-like rivalry has devolved into uninformed pissing-contest between fanboys of the various brands.

I don't know the best way to counter or defuse such a dynamic.

Perhaps the best way is to rise above it - don't engage the marketplace on that level. The N series tablets are still very much in pioneering territory...nobody has 'perfected' this class of device yet, so the standard has yet to be set. The 770/800/810/900 are serious attempts at progressing development of this area - I think they are on the cusp of what will become the standard device for communication (the concept of a 'phone', smart or otherwise, will die off). Sniping at earlier models' faults is pretty frivolous and childish....but that's the level the 'debate' (if it can be called that) has sunk to.

Ultimately, I think it truly is up to us, the OSS community - with nokia dev support, to drive the utility of these devices through the roof. Apple has an idiotic scheme for participating in development...their marketplace is flooded with bull***** 'apps' that are nothing more than toys for gawping *****s. We have a vastly superior platform to harness. For now ;)

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I kind of assumed that this coming weekend was about introducing the 'killer apps with wow'?

I'd actually agree: apart from the faster operating, this phone is less attractive to 'Joe Average' because it won't yet do what a good symbian phone will. Aside from the ethical approach to Open Source, in what ways is this better for the Average User than any other phone?

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

@bbns,

I'm trying to use these APIs, but they're probably not working with the SDK (you don't have Bluetooth in SDK's device menu too). In some example sources I have found info too - this needs real device. Maybe there is some way and I'm trying to find it (I don't give up), but for now I can't change my words :( And yes - I have "some" experience with Bluez.

...and all jobs positions were in Finland only (at least in the Nokia's search engine).

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I don't really care if the n900 catches the average joes attention in USA.

I don't drink Buttwiper or Miller Shite either.

I don't drive a gold Honda or Toyota Sedan either.

My Kids aren't named Jason and Jennifer or whatever the average Joe names their kids these days.

I don't watch Survivor or Dancing with the Stars or House or any of that other crap.

This phone is for me and I don't care if I am the only one who buys one, more power to me. Thanks Nokia for the 5+ years of R&D just for me!

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Which is the reason I believe someone said this phone is "step 4" of a 5 step process.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

something i wrote in a similiar topic...

Despite the fact I never owned a Nxx tablet and never used Linux, I do know phones, computers, consoles and all kinds of electronics. And, to me, as an user of Windows (never had the need to use a different OS), Linux seemed as something just for programmers and geeks, something even more "boring" than Mac OS/X. Now, the first time i heard about the N900 and read that it runs Linux, i thought at first: "Hm, the thing looks great, has great hardware, but Linux? And what the hell is this Maemo? Where is my Symbian?". That's probably what the majority of people, who never heard about a Nxx device, thought and will think, at first. After watching videos though, how the N900 works, I started to like it, alot, putting aside the fact its OS is based off Linux. Today, I don't care about this factor. My point is, when people play with the device and get to know afterwords it's Linux, they'll go like: "This is Linux? It's very cool! How is it like on PC? Is it this cool too? Great device.", thus braking the barrier between an average PC user and a geek, looking at Linux as an OS differently, becoming less remote for a non-geek to grasp and enjoy. In this sense i think the N900 does a great job, much better than the previous tablets. And this is just the OS. After this step of observing, people will get even more curious, because the UI is done in a very user-friendly way, thus making the device easier to use, something like the iPhone. Sure, some folks will still find the thing complicated, i did to, but reading the manual for more complicated tasks, which are fairly easy but can be harder to find, can't be that complicated, right? Everyone can still use the phone out of the box to do ordinary stuff, just like with a normal phone. If you look how much the tablet has changed (how it looks, the OS/UI, hardware), it definately is a step closer to becoming mainstream and i am convinced it will, as long as people see commercials for it over the place (because what studying marketing has taught me: you can have a brilliant product, but if you won't put up any commercials and some propaganda to it, eventhough your neighbours product is zillion times worse, thanks to all the marketing campaigns his device will sell better. - because commercials are mind control and the more you focus on them, the more minds you can control eventhough your product is complete crap).

is guess that is only my view though..:p hm?

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I agree that the N900 won't be for the average Joe. It's has a solid foundation for being a killer device for the average Joe. Right now it doesn't have a pretty structure (applications) on top of the foundation that people think they need nor the familiarity for people to "risk" buying. All of that takes time and that's probably why the Nokia people say the N900 is step 4 of 5.

If I was a betting man, the next generation N900 (step 5 of 5) won't be much different from the present N900 from a technology standpoint - but will have a lot of flash, glitz, applications (good or not, but enough to fill up pages of the OVI store) & a large marketing budget to get the average Joe to buy.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Between now and when the price point inevitably drops to sub-$400, we had better get our A's into G and port/develop a wealth of attractive apps.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I guess that my problem with that is people like me. I'm not quite 'Joe Average', and expect my IT to work for its houseroom. On the other hand, I've never tackled anything linux before, and not being a progammer am unlikely to ever cut it as a developer.

Right now, it's people like me nokia need on board: people who're half way between 'Joe Average' and 'Full Blown Geek'. And in part the question of whether I get on board is dependent on the community. Unfair though it probably seems, we need you to assure us that the wizzy apps will come - at least the basic ones we need.

The plus side of that is that us 'geek-lite' types make great evangelists, as we can show off what we've learned and enthuse in language accessible to Joe Average.

Nokia have put a fair amount of effort and investment into getting this far. If they're going to get their investment back, they need enough handsets to sell - at least enough to convince shareholders to continue to 'step 5'.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

It amazes me that this community is agreeing that the n900 is not good for the mass market.

Compare it to the best of android or OSx devices ignoring the application markets. It is at least as good, imo better.

If what makes the device a mass market device is 1000 apps then sure, it is going to take 6-12 months to get there, just like it did for the nokia 5800 or n97, the first s60^5 devices.

Nokia has not tried to compare the n900 to android or i-phone because as Volt said "The N900 is one of the few phones that doesn't try to be the Iphone." It is a new platform that has the potential to be as revolutionary as android or osx or symbian s60

Yesterday Computerworld published a report about mobile phone os ( http://shar.es/1YiLD ) where it talked about the market make up in 2012.

Symbian = 36 %
Android = 14 %
OSX = 13.7 %
WinMo=12.8 %
Various Linux maemo is bunched in here = 5.4% or 28M units

28 Million is not 200million but, It shows there is a real market out there that developers and software companies should pay attention to!! Millions of potential customers to but their wares.

Lets focus positive energy to the market and give them the examples they need to understand why it is special, different, and better in its own way.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Joe Average usually uses dumb phones because all he wants is to make calls and texting.
Only a small fraction of those people use iPhone, because they think it's cool. They don't even realize it's dumbed down because they don't expect much from a phone.

For people who have been using smartphones before OTOH, an iPhone is not really an option. The N900 will have a hard time standing up to state-of-the-art smartphones, too, but it definitely has potential.

The N900 is no iPhone killer for several reasons, IMHO:

- it will never have as many apps as iPhone (Maemo will have quality instead of quantity)
- not many commercial developers because the N900 user base wouldn't throw away money for fart apps and co.
- the user interface is too complicated (for Joe "Dumbphone User" Average it is)
- resistive touch screen (the screen is good, but Joe Average will only listen to "experts" instead of trying himself)
- the Nokia brand is not "cool"
- too heavy
- not many carriers will carry it
- hardware keyboard (looks like a complicated device, will scare Joe Average away)

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I'm assuming you mean Joe Average who lives in the US...if this is the case then it won't matter what the N900 can do because unless it is subsidized by the carriers (the carriers have trained 'us' so well) Joe Average will not pay $650 for a phone. I showed this phone to many colleagues and friends...and they were all excited about the phone until I told them the price.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Im sure there are Average Joe's in other countries.. maybe they just call them Average Sven or John Média

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

This is spot on. People will look at the $600 price tag and say "I can get an iPhone for $199" (not, of course, fully realizing how much they're committing to pay down the road).

I'm not particularly concerned about whether your Average Joe appreciates the merits of the N900, because your Average Joe doesn't understand the difference between a locked-down "smartphone" and a hackable pocket computer. As for me, I'll take the pocket computer that runs Linux, thank you.

It's inevitable that the addition of 3G capabilities to the tablets would lead to erroneous comparisons with existing smartphones. But the N900 should really be compared with other MIDs and pocket computers.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Does anybody really think Nokia plans on having the vast majority of its phones running Symbian in 2012? I sure don't. They're not buying QT and throwing their money at maemo for nothing. By 2012 the kind of processing power in the N900 will be mainstream. With cycles that cheap, the traditional phone OSes are going to be pointless. Look at how many features even dumbphones have now. In two+ years, people are going to be expecting real computer functionality from their "phones", and with good reason. Everything smaller than full-sized keyboard will be displaced by "smart phones", just like PDAs have been already.

N900 isn't the finished product. It's a rung in the ladder for Nokia to be on top when the portable computer convergence roller coaster really begins.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

It's interesting that Amazon (at least) are billing the N900 as a 'mobile computer', not as a phone. As well as probably being a more fitting description it might get buyers thinking about it in as a netbook competitor rather than as a really smart smartphone, and if that happens you're into a whole different mindset where people don't routinely expect carrier subsidies etc.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Apple have played to their strengths and reaped deserved rewards for doing so. Their devices 'just work', and are packaged with careful attention to 'style'. They are fashionable, sleek and useful to many people. Yet, in many respects, they are a toy. Toys have great value in society, but they don't always make value.

The N900 is the latest step in bringing the power and utility of computers into tighter integration with our lives. Where you used to have to go sit down at a terminal, you can now perform the same tasks concurrently with your life. It is an ever-present link to the networked world.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

as much as your post made me laugh, it's sadly true...people are too stupid to appreciate something like the N900 (ofc i don't mean people from maemo.org lol)

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I disagree, the form factor and marketing is directed as a phone. MID is a nearly unknown term. netbook just got hot over the last 18 months... and mids are further outside of the mainstream. to explain a mid you have to take five minutes and say "well its like a netbook, but a tablet and smaller and no it isn;t a phone.. but it could be. no no no its not a ****ing iphone its different because its a real computer.. " and no one wants that kind of frustration.

You make comparisons to what is known and clearly understood by the majority of people. you dont describe a file minion as like chateau briand but smaller, but rather a ny sirloin... (god i need to break for lunch)

anyway... i think you get my point.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I think these two phrases reflect a basic problem. The first is the idea of a platform. People don't buy platforms, they buy products. How many users of the iPhone know who makes its CPU, what speed it runs at, or what OS runs on top of it? They are interested in what the iPhone can do for them. If they need it to do something that it can't do out of the box, they'll look in the iPhone store and, if it's not there, they will either trade it in for a different phone or give up.

This brings up the second phrase which I will rephrase as "what do advanced users want?" For me the answer is a rich suite of applications which the N900 seriously lacks at the moment. In fact, I can't think of a single thing that the N900 has to offer an advanced user right now which can't be matched or bettered by another phone.

Granted, there is a great deal of potential in the OS but Joe Average is looking for results. I don't buy a car based on how it can potentially be tuned to perform, I buy it based on how it performs when I drive it away from the dealer. A car tuner might look at what he could do to a car when deciding what to buy, a developer might look at what he can do to a phone when deciding what to buy, but Joe Average is into immediate gratification.

Next year the answer might be different. All the advanced developers will have created applications that advanced users lust after while Nokia will have improved the UI so that Joe Average can see the advantages. Next year. Not now.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Amazon is describing it as "Nokia N900 Unlocked Cell Phone/Mobile Computer with 3.5-Inch Touch Screen, QWERTY, 5 MP Camera, Maemo Browser, 32 GB--U.S. Version with Full Warranty"

"This unlocked cell phone is compatible with GSM carriers like AT&T and T-Mobile. Not all carrier features may be supported. It will not work with CDMA carriers like Verizon Wireless, Alltel and Sprint."

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I try and explain the N900 as a bastard mutant lovechild of a netbook and a cellphone ;)

Apple have proved that millions of people love their sleek, pocketable devices - they've hit the sweet spot regarding form factor. These devices are constrictive, whereas the N900 etc is bringing the flexibility and open nature of a linux netbook to this more highly portable format.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Interesting: Amazon.co.uk is describing it as "Nokia n900 Mobile Computer with Maemo software"

Different marketting for different markets?

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

As an "advanced user" I want the POTENTIAL. Apps can always be written, but without the underlying hardware/OS to back them up its pointless. Android has shown that, the ability to write apps is easier than ever, but the hardware and the OS/Java platform is so lacking many "cool" ideas cannot be implemented.

With maemo you have essentially a desktop equivalent linux install. Anything that can be written for Linux can in POTENTIA be ported to maemo (yes I know screen size issues etc aside). The only limitation is memory (mostly resolved by the ability to swap) and the CPU (pretty beefy in the n900). The OS is completely Opengl compliant which means any eye candy you could want can easily be implemented (and in many cases simply recompiled).

This device is a launch pad for the next generation of portable devices which will be targeted at the upcoming audience of VERY tech savvy kids coming up through the ranks. They will expect MORE from their devices.

That being said.Maybe this phone isn't for you "Average Joe" but I really don't think it couldn't be used by one.

Oh and as far as Apple hitting their mark. i quote my brother.

"No one every went broke appealing to the lowest common denominator"

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

interesting....

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Your list can be summed up: the iPhone is a pacifier (for the average Joe). And it sells very well in the U.S. =D
The N900 is clearely nothing like it. Those who know they want something more than a pacifier look for something that they want. For me (and many others) the N900 is the optimal device. And WinMo and Android devices (btw, Androids have something of a storm brewing) are for many different reasons not good, Symbian devices have processing power issues at the moment...
At the moment the N900 has its thing going for those who realise it's capabilities and have patience too to see where the device with the future software possibilities is going. All that requires so much PR-speek and knowledge of (the current U.S. situation and) technology possibilites that it'll take many years until a N900-type device could be considered a viable choice for the masses. It'll take great commitment from Nokia to continue on the chosen path to sell those MIDs of the future, and the N900 too. N900 will play a great role in creating the basis for such devices and their niche in the market. Also, we are a part of that plan. Early-adopters are just that, test base users for future device developement and a important part in bringing new devices to the users and thus creating knowledge of such devices.
The N900 is a new device category.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Perhaps the marketing slogan should be

N900 - If you're not a *****

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

You sir, have the potential to lead the Maemo movement... and your country too...

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

No, Joe is not a *****...

I don't know, but it seems to me that the uber-elitist thing about this has a great deal of mileage in determining that Joe is going to walk away with hands and money in pockets. If you don't have anything good to say about Joe, don't say anything. Joe's the one who's going to ultimately have to be brought into the fold, and believe me, he's not quite so stupid as it seems some of the people on this thread would have him.

So, he got an iphone/blackberry/2125i. That doesn't mean he's dumb, it actually is a nice device (mine has a flashlight, I use it lots). Instead of telling him he's dumb, talk to him.

The only way Joe is going to understand 'special' is if you educate him.

Condescension is not education.
Insults are not education.
Both should be kept where they belong... (the schoolyard? ;) )

Education is akin to this: 'Hey Joe, where you going with that gun - er - iphone in your hand? What do you use it for? Cool, that looks like fun. Have you seen this? Yes, it's a little faster, yes, makes calls. Pretty snazzy huh?. Does have good graphics too, yep. Hey, check out that website - looks a bit nicer eh? Now, did you know...'

And see how far down the rabbit hole you can go...

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Didnt mean it seriously - was tongue in cheek. Personally I want the Joes to use the phone. The more people who use it, the more likely the platform etc is to expand.

But you cannot expect there not to be any geek eliteness here. This is a Geek phone no matter how you slice it, and we are happy about it (Hell yes I am a geek).

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Once again - device = software + hardware.

Joe in the USA/Europe knows, that IPhone didn't have MMS and it was wrong. They were added after years and it was TOO long. Even, when they're not useful for him, he knows/thinks, that modern device needs them.

Now Joe can see, that new device is expensive and doesn't have MMS. Nokia doesn't write, that will implement MMS in the future.

Joe can buy something cheaper, what have them NOW. What will be selected by Joe ?

This is example, but shows, that Nokia already made some mistakes with new product. Multitasking is not important, other things are not important. Device doesn't have MMS and is wrong and limited for many users. EOT

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Really? So you would trade a full browser capability. Multi tasking, OpenGL, raw cpu power etc etc for mms

Well good luck with that

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

Average Joe probably would.

Re: Will Joe Average understand why the N900 is special?
 

I haven't written about me. I was writing about it, what are first feelings from many non-technical users. And first feelings are the most often the most important.