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-   -   Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33397)

Laurence 2009-10-24 01:50
Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Hi,

Does anyone know if the N900 supports Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard in the same way the N810 presently supports it?

Cheers,

Laughing Man 2009-10-24 02:24
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
HID (the bluetooth protocal for input devices like keyboards) is disabled. Though I think it just takes a quick edit to the text file to enable it and then a reboot.

Rocketman 2009-10-24 02:33
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Can someone with one of the demo units please test this and work up a set of instructions? I have one of these keyboards, but I am sure a lot of people will be interested in bluetooth HID devices in general. I am very curious about mouse/keyboard support, what with Quake 3 demos showing up all over the place :)

allnameswereout 2009-10-24 02:52
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Probably, given HID works. If it won't work I'll post about it here as I have a SU-8W.

Laurence 2009-10-24 03:48
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Thanks for all the replies. It's reassuring to know that it should be supported.

WilliePre 2009-10-24 16:49
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Hi,

See the Maemo wiki : Fremantle Unsupported Bluetooth Profiles, on how to enable the bluetoothhd input plugin (HID host).
In order to use a Bluetooth Keyboard.

http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsu...tooth_profiles

fragos 2009-10-26 01:56
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
The SU-8W was so poorly supported on the N810 that it was almost unusable. I believe it was a driver issue and not the keyboard itself. The bug was reported by a number of users and a fix was promised in Fremantle. I'd want to verify it works before dumping $100 on an unusable keyboard. The fact that you need a hack to use the keyboard isn't very promising. Also that keyboard has special function keys for Nokia phones which weren't supported on the N810. I love my N810 but the whole bluetooth keyboard thing was a major disappointment. I've ordered a small USB keyboard to use with the N810 but am unsure if that option is really available on the N900.

Laughing Man 2009-10-26 02:20
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
It's not necessarily a hack to use the keyboard, it's more the fact that HID as a bluetooth protocal is just disabled in general through a simple text file (why I have no idea since it seems to work just fine for people who have tried it). Maybe it was for security reasons, who knows.

But after you just delete HID from the line and restart the bluetooth service (either via command) or a restart and it should work.

jukkar 2009-10-26 07:09
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
I activated HID and tried to SU-8W. The results are not very good as the modifier keys do not work so one cannot input numbers etc.

george8 2009-10-27 14:40
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Does anybody know if other Bluetooth wireless keyboards, such as a HP would work with the N900? Is the Bluetooth protocol enough for them "to understand and talk to one another, or a special dedicated driver would be necessary?

TA-t3 2009-10-27 14:58
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Bluetooth keyboards normally use one of two different protocols: One is the HID profile (Human Interface Device), which generally works out of the box on devices like the N800. The other is a serial profile, which on the N800 and 770 devices needed a little driver but otherwise worked nearly as well as HID (I have not used it, but my understanding is that with a serial profile the connection needed a little more manual intervention compared to HID, which is the only one I'm familiar with. But don't take my word for this.)

So, the short answer is 'Yes, there are standard protocols, and most BT keyboards follow them (HID or serial). Sometimes there are still problems with specific keyboards though.'

Edit: The keyboard I'm using with my N800 is the Stowaway Sierra full-size, 4-way foldable keyboard. It works perfectly for me, althoug some other users have for some reason problems with pairing and/or connections.

george8 2009-10-27 20:15
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Many thanks, TA-t3, I am brand new here, appreciate the education. I have both an SU-8W and a HP Ipaq, will have to see which works better. The truth is, the SU-8W is a great keyboard for mobile phone, but not really comfortable for a computer. Thanks, again:)

benny1967 2009-10-27 20:21
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laughing Man (Post 357944)
It's not necessarily a hack to use the keyboard, it's more the fact that HID as a bluetooth protocal is just disabled in general through a simple text file (why I have no idea since it seems to work just fine for people who have tried it). Maybe it was for security reasons, who knows.

But after you just delete HID from the line and restart the bluetooth service (either via command) or a restart and it should work.
But wouldn't you need some kind of UI to set up a keyboard? IIRC, I had the option to choose keyboard model, layout, plus the behaviour of certain function keys in the BT-keyboard-UI on my N800. If such settings aren't available for Maemo5, it's very hackish and hardly useful.

jjrv 2009-10-28 10:24
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
The N900 appears to come with a separate layout for the SU-8W in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr but doesn't use it automatically after enabling the Bluetooth HID. By default it's using the N900 internal keyboard's layout. The Fn key on the SU-8W is not working which suggests it doesn't make the keyboard actually send keypresses of the number keys for example, but the driver has to interpret Fn+Q as 1.

However my keyboard has an AltGr key which the N900 thinks is same as the internal keyboard's Fn key, so AltGr+Q produces 1 and AltGr+Ctrl opens the dialog to enter special characters. Therefore the SU-8W is fully functional although with a very strange layout that probably will be fixed by someone eventually. I'm finding that key repeat works better than with the N810 and no keypresses are dropped, but YMMV.

Laurence 2009-11-04 23:21
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fragos (Post 357935)
The SU-8W was so poorly supported on the N810 that it was almost unusable. I believe it was a driver issue and not the keyboard itself. The bug was reported by a number of users and a fix was promised in Fremantle. I'd want to verify it works before dumping $100 on an unusable keyboard. The fact that you need a hack to use the keyboard isn't very promising. Also that keyboard has special function keys for Nokia phones which weren't supported on the N810. I love my N810 but the whole bluetooth keyboard thing was a major disappointment. I've ordered a small USB keyboard to use with the N810 but am unsure if that option is really available on the N900.

I agree with your comments pertaining to the SU-8W specific blue function keys which are used for the blue function keys on Nokia phones; due to no direct mapping relationship between blue function key and the N810 itself. Maybe a hack could map the blue menu key to the N810 menu key.

However that aside I have found the SU-8W to work very reliably for all other keys (i.e. the numerical keys accessed only via the green Fn). So for writing long messages or docs it works a treat :)

If the same user experience could be achieved on the N900 I would be more than happy.

Cheers,

Thor 2009-11-04 23:55
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Is there a way to use a standard bluetooth keyboard for PC on the N900? That could be useful for gaming or going to a friend's house who has such a keyboard. The foldaway keyboards are more useful when travelling and staying in hotels and so on.

VDVsx 2009-11-05 00:03
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor (Post 365927)
Is there a way to use a standard bluetooth keyboard for PC on the N900? That could be useful for gaming or going to a friend's house who has such a keyboard. The foldaway keyboards are more useful when travelling and staying in hotels and so on.
Yes, there's: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsu...tooth_profiles

For the record I'll make a simple control panel app for that.

Thor 2009-11-05 00:36
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDVsx (Post 365928)
Yes, there's: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsu...tooth_profiles

For the record I'll make a simple control panel app for that.
Thanks that'll be great! I'll be looking to test it out when I get the device. I wonder if the keyboard and mouse can stay connected to both the phone and the computer and be switchable.. ? That's probably a little too much to ask for though :)

Laurence 2009-11-05 00:38
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDVsx (Post 365928)
Yes, there's: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsu...tooth_profiles

For the record I'll make a simple control panel app for that.
That would be terrific! Will be one apps on my highest download priority :)

fragos 2009-11-05 02:02
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor (Post 365944)
Thanks that'll be great! I'll be looking to test it out when I get the device. I wonder if the keyboard and mouse can stay connected to both the phone and the computer and be switchable.. ? That's probably a little too much to ask for though :)
Most Bluetooth devices can only be connected to one host at a time. My N810 will for FTP functions allow the user to select which available host to connect to. My Bluetooth keyboard connects to the 1st host it sees.

filologen 2009-12-07 10:56
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrv (Post 359698)
The N900 appears to come with a separate layout for the SU-8W in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr but doesn't use it automatically after enabling the Bluetooth HID. By default it's using the N900 internal keyboard's layout. The Fn key on the SU-8W is not working which suggests it doesn't make the keyboard actually send keypresses of the number keys for example, but the driver has to interpret Fn+Q as 1.
Could a temporary hack be to edit the /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 file and add the info from the SU-8W file under a keyboard layout not used and then just switch to this layout when the su-8w keyboard is connected?

If I have time tonight, I think I'll try this.

VDVsx 2009-12-07 13:44
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by filologen (Post 414211)
Could a temporary hack be to edit the /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 file and add the info from the SU-8W file under a keyboard layout not used and then just switch to this layout when the su-8w keyboard is connected?

If I have time tonight, I think I'll try this.
No need to mess with these files, you can use a command line tool to assign the different available layouts - hildon-im-xkbtool

filologen 2009-12-07 14:43
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Thanks a lot VDVsx for saving me quite some work. I will try this when I get home later today...

filologen 2009-12-07 15:02
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
VDVsx, do you know how to use hildon-im-xkbtool (which options the command takes)? It give me no help when I typed "hildon-im-xkbtool -h"

VDVsx 2009-12-07 15:23
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by filologen (Post 414624)
VDVsx, do you know how to use hildon-im-xkbtool (which options the command takes)? It give me no help when I typed "hildon-im-xkbtool -h"
Code:
Nokia-N900-42-11:~# hildon-im-xkbtool --help
Usage:
  hildon-im-xkbtool [OPTION...] - Hildon IM XKB configurator

Help Options:
  -?, --help                  Show help options

Application Options:
  -g, --get-conf              Show the currently stored configuration
  -s, --set-conf              Apply the currently stored configuration
  -l, --layout=LAYOUT        Set the keyboard layout
  -m, --model=MODEL          Set the keyboard model
  -i, --interval=INTERVAL    Set the key repeat interval
  -d, --delay=DELAY          Set the key repeat delay
  --id=ID                    Apply to the keyboard with ID
  --name=NAME                Apply to the keyboard with NAME
  --list                      List available keyboards

filologen 2009-12-07 19:09
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Thanks again! I have now tried to set the layout, but cannot seem to get it to work. I have e.g. tried to write

Code:
hildon-im-xkbtool -s -l no -m nokiasuw8 -i 50 -d 600 --id=4
and I get the following feedback:

Code:
Applying keymap to Virtual core Keyboard
Applying keymap to omap_tw14030keypad
Applying keymap to Nokia SU-8W
Applying keymap to Nokia SU-8W
Setting rate for Nokia SU-8W
Set rate for device Nokia SU-8W
But when I thereafter do a

Code:
hildon-im-xkbtool -g
I get the same feedback as before I tried changing the layout, namely

Code:
External keyboard:
Model: nokiasu8w
Layout: US
Delay: 600
Interval: 50
Not only does the configuration not work, it doesn't even give me the US layout. Instead I get the layout used on the hardware keyboard of the n900 (e.g. German og my own modified Danish depending on what I set the hardware keyboard to).

Any help would be much appreciated!

filologen 2009-12-17 13:03
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Has no one been able to make the su-8w work with the n900?

VDVsx 2009-12-17 15:38
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by filologen (Post 431816)
Has no one been able to make the su-8w work with the n900?
Don't have one, but for what I've seen it should work. What's the problem ?

filologen 2009-12-17 21:01
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
The problem is that no matter what I have tried (I am surely doing something wrong!) I cannot get the correct layout on the su-8w. I only get the same layout as on the hardware keyboard on the n900, which obviously isn't very useful on the external keyboard.

VDVsx 2009-12-17 23:13
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by filologen (Post 432445)
The problem is that no matter what I have tried (I am surely doing something wrong!) I cannot get the correct layout on the su-8w. I only get the same layout as on the hardware keyboard on the n900, which obviously isn't very useful on the external keyboard.
That's strange but can be another bug :).

Please try this command in the X terminal and paste the output here: hildon-im-xkbtool -g

filologen 2009-12-18 05:43
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Thanks VDVsx

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDVsx (Post 432656)
That's strange but can be another bug :).

Please try this command in the X terminal and paste the output here: hildon-im-xkbtool -g
The result is:

Code:
Internal keyboard:
Model: nokiarx51
Layout: dano
Delay: 600
Interval: 50

External keyboard:
Model: nokiasu8w
Layout: us
Delay: 600
Interval: 50
PS: See also my post #26

It would be very interesting to hear if I am the only one with this problem.

benny1967 2009-12-18 08:25
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
i'd be very interested in a working solution, too. my su-8w is with a friend in germany over the holidays so i can't try ATM, but the keyboard on the n900 makes me want the su-8w more than ever. ;)

VDVsx 2009-12-18 11:02
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by filologen (Post 414990)
Thanks again! I have now tried to set the layout, but cannot seem to get it to work. I have e.g. tried to write

Code:
hildon-im-xkbtool -s -l no -m nokiasuw8 -i 50 -d 600 --id=4
and I get the following feedback:

Code:
Applying keymap to Virtual core Keyboard
Applying keymap to omap_tw14030keypad
Applying keymap to Nokia SU-8W
Applying keymap to Nokia SU-8W
Setting rate for Nokia SU-8W
Set rate for device Nokia SU-8W
But when I thereafter do a

Code:
hildon-im-xkbtool -g
I get the same feedback as before I tried changing the layout, namely

Code:
External keyboard:
Model: nokiasu8w
Layout: US
Delay: 600
Interval: 50
Not only does the configuration not work, it doesn't even give me the US layout. Instead I get the layout used on the hardware keyboard of the n900 (e.g. German og my own modified Danish depending on what I set the hardware keyboard to).

Any help would be much appreciated!
The hildon-im-xkbtool command seems to do nothing, I also can't modify the layout using this command in maemo5, but the same command works under maemo4.
I also tried to change the model directly via gconf (pc105), it presents the right value, but the keyboard behavior is the same :(

jandro 2010-01-10 05:17
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliePre (Post 357253)
Hi,

See the Maemo wiki : Fremantle Unsupported Bluetooth Profiles, on how to enable the bluetoothhd input plugin (HID host).
In order to use a Bluetooth Keyboard.

http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsu...tooth_profiles
I followed these instructions but still cannot pair my phone with my SU_8W. I tried all key combination when entering the pass key. It pairs nicely with my N810. Is there anything else I need to do?

Thanks,

olighak 2010-01-17 16:13
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Has anyone else noticed bluetooth keyboards not wanting to connect after the update to week 51 firmware?

I've tried reediting the main.conf file but nothing happens.

Actually, looking at the post previous to mine this may have been the week 46 firmware update that did this.

Also does anyone know which file governs whether the connect/disconnect button in the bluetooth settings is enabled? I notice that it is enabled for my computer and my Nokia bluetooth headset but disabled for my BT printer, bt keyboard, wife's phone and garmin gps mouse.

willem43 2010-01-23 08:26
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Letters and numbers work rather good, with some odd procedures:

see:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41425

filologen 2010-01-23 22:18
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by olighak (Post 478247)
Has anyone else noticed bluetooth keyboards not wanting to connect after the update to week 51 firmware?

I've tried reediting the main.conf file but nothing happens.

Actually, looking at the post previous to mine this may have been the week 46 firmware update that did this.
.
I had the same problem, but solved it by doing
Code:
stop bluetoothd
start bluetoothd

Thanks to qobi's help in this post:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...7&postcount=27

I also got my Nokia SU-8W to work completely as it should with Danish keyboard layout (see http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...6&postcount=31)

jandro 2010-01-24 08:04
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
I followed one of the links above and I successfully paired the device with the keyboard, disabled the virtual keyboard and it now works. I can access numbers by pressing Alt-gr. However I can't access the right shift key, the '<', '>' and ' symbols.

filologen 2010-01-24 08:55
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jandro (Post 491555)
I followed one of the links above and I successfully paired the device with the keyboard, disabled the virtual keyboard and it now works. I can access numbers by pressing Alt-gr. However I can't access the right shift key, the '<', '>' and ' symbols.
I think this is how I did it (do it on your own risk):

1) First copy (as root) the /usr/share/X11/xkb/ directory from chinook to /usr/share/X11/xkb-chinook/ (be careful not to overwrite /usr/share/X11/xkb/). The necessary chinook directory is attached in this post: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=441444&postcount=3.

2) Then copy (as root) /usr/share/X11/xkb-chinook/geometry/pc to /usr/share/X11/xkb/geometry/ the following way (one line in the terminal):

Code:
cp -i /usr/share/X11/xkb-chinook/geometry/pc /usr/share/X11/xkb/geometry/.
3) Now to get e.g. Danish keyboard layout do the following (not as root, also this is one line in the terminal):

Code:
setxkbmap -device 4 -I -I/usr/share/X11/xkb-chinook -rules base -model nokiasu8w -layout dk
Before it takes effect you might need to press a button on the internal hardware keyboard, then it should work.

Please only do this if you know what all this means.

jandro 2010-01-28 00:06
Re: Does N900 support Nokia's SU-8W Bluetooth Keyboard ?
 
Thanks. I might give this a try when I have time or I might wait until the su-8w layout is included in a future software release (bug 6685).


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