Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

I've searched through and I don't think anyone specifically answers this question directly.

As far as I'm aware, the main differences between the US and Euro models are:

Wifi bands 1-11 - US
1-13 - EU (shouldn't pose a problem)

Keyboard layout maybe?

Frequencies for 3G.. from searching online there's mixed opinions as to whether the N900 from the US would be compatible in the EU with our networks over here. But the frequencies cover 900/2100 bands [i'm a bit dodgy with this kind of thing] so technically should work fine with most networks?

Thinking of buying one, but the US models are cheaper than the EU models.

If I could get a yes or no answer, please :)

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

this should not be a problem at all. The one major difference is the power plug.. ;) but adapters are cheap. i will get one in the us in january. be aware if you buy in stores you pay sales tax so you would pay slightly more than from online retailers.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

I'm actually ordering one from the UK, it's a US version and significantly cheaper than ordering a UK model and importing from the US.

The power plug isn't an issue :)

Thanks a lot.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

If you import from US to EU you must pay VAT complete amount you paid for article including S&H. This is converted to EUR. So what happens is this:

1) Price of product in USD.
2) Price of S&H in USD.
3) Credit card / Paypal fee in USD.
4) EUR -> USD conversion fee.
5) Clearance fee (in EUR).
6) Default country's VAT (sales tax) over product and S&H (!!!).
7) Additional tax to customs depending on product ranging from 3,7% to 12%.
8) If the product goes poof your warranty is not valid in EU stores. This is, with Nokia, only valid if you bought the product within EU. So you then have to get in contact with your US store or Nokia US.

I suggest looking at UK. GBP is low, saves almost all of the above, arrives faster (US -> EU is week, customs is... depends... week here in NL while UK -> NL is 3 or 4 days), and warranty is easier. Only thing is right charger. But you can even use a converter for that.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Do you have an address I could use, I'm thinking of buying a US version as well and this could be a good option...

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

the major difference between the n900 in the eu and the us really is
the f****g price. well if you live in the eu of course.
americans pay 582.99$ on amazon.com and i have to pay
901,67$ on amazon.de. for the lazy ones: that is an amount of
318,68$! now how does that suck?!

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Cheapest I can find on a UK site is €489 including shipping. Which is £449 GBP.. not bad. Might be worth getting a UK model if I can sell my N97.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

if i would order the n900 from the us, it would be ~476€ + a duty of
~90€ (19%) + shipping costs of ~20€ (?) = 586€. not worth the action.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

In EU it costs 600 EUR.
In US it costs 583 USD without sales tax.
Sales tax varies from state to state.
If we add 20% sales tax (approx what it is in EU (in USA it is less, indeed, that is why we have a social security system etc)) we get 700 USD..
..which is according to Google 465 EUR. This means the Nokia N900 is 135 EUR in USA when comparing Amazon.com with Amazon.de

According to Geizhalz, Alternate sells Nokia N900 for 500 EUR, and in the Netherlands the price is about 540 EUR. A difference of 35-75 EUR. Boohoo, how evil. Well, based on this data it won't help you to order it from USA; see my above post.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

I was speaking about a physical visit to the US!!! ;) I have a friend in the US who will order it for me on amazon. he will personally give it to me & i will take it with me. No tax ;) and no, I never worry about customs, neither in the UK, nor in Europe nor in Chile ;)

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

You're allowed to import an X amount of EUR from a non-EU country. I think X amount differs per country. In NL it is 430 EUR. FWIW, Nokia N900 is worth more than 430 EUR.

In NL, for receiving packages outside of EU anything under 22 EUR is free to go, anything between 22 EUR and 150 EUR is VAT (+ clearance fee), anything over 150 EUR is VAT and customs tax (+ clearance fee). For other EU countries it most certainly differs, but expect similar constructions. It adds up rather quickly.

Your friend will receive item and either pays duties or not depending on State where he receives package. In your case you take it with you, and if you pay in cash that seems reasonably secure. Except somewhere some 500 USD were spend by you in cash.

If you weren't physically visiting he'd sent it to perhaps as 'gift' (which it actually isn't), and sends it insured or not. Without is risk. Either way, additional costs.

However, in both of these cases the product is sealed and new, and when it was bought by whom can be easily traced. It is bought in USA, and in one way or another you paid for it hence it was not a gift.

You're probably low profile but realize what you are doing in this case is commiting fraud, and publicly admitting a crime isn't the most wise move.

You also still have the problem of warranty, and the WLAN chip does not allow Ch 12 & 13.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

So there's the added hassle factor involved in importing (to Ireland).

Might have to just go for the UK version so.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

In some countries the value limit of an item you bring yourself (having been out of the country more than 24 hours) is considerably higher than the price of the N900 though.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

The thing with the EU is... the customs agents can stop you on the street and demand proof of payed duty.

Also someone mentionde 19% duty.. that's only VAT... Duty is completly separate from that.

So yes to import into EU it is: price+shipping+duty+VAT

If you can get an exemption for duty for a to low price then great.

I'll just buy it at the local nokia store.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Very helpful all - looks like it is in fact better to order from your locality!

This negates the 'compatibilty with European networks' factor too.

(As an aside, would the wifi channel difference really mean a whole lot , aren't most wifi channels around 6 or 7? )

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Well, the VAT is usualy way more than the duty. The duty I've paid for electronic imported from the US must be very low indeed, because I didn't notice it on the customs papers. VAT though.. that's a pain.

As for customs officers stopping you on the streets.. nah. I don't buy into that. I know that if you cross the border with a car it's legal for a customs officer to stop you down the road a bit, but they can't just ask for "papers please!" in the street.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

i guess i was in the wrong here.
thought the amazon prices are including tax, like in germany.

that's still over 20% of the whole price.
for me that is still a big difference.

thanks for the link. so it's not as bad as it seemed to me.
guess i was in a bad mood, too.:rolleyes:

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Online retailers rarely include tax in the USA unless their warehouse or place of business is located there. E.g. Newegg has warehouses in CA and PA so they charge sales tax for any packages shipped to people inside those states. But they don't charge sales tax to say MD. This is becaause there are way to many variations in sales tax across states so until the Federal government steps in or states really push like NY did. Though even in the state example what online retailers just do is not charge sales tax and tell whoever is buying it in that state to buy the sales tax. Which rarely the buyer will ever do.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

do i get this right? if you buy something from an onlineshop in the us, it tells you to pay the tax but it won't be checked by the state you're living in? (i'm still learning english, so there are missunderstandings once in a while:))

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Yes, you understand correctly (so long as the company you buy from does not have a "presence" -- like a warehouse or office -- in your state).

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

tell me if I say something wrong in this.. :p
scenario:
- I'm going to visit a friend in the USA in three weeks
- I take 500 euros cash with me to give to my friend, or make an international bank transfer for whatever personal reason, lets say an old debt
- he buys a N900 from Amazon shipping to his address and paying with his credit card
- I arrive in USA, stay there a week while I unpack the N900 and begin to use it as my daily phone
- I come back to Europe with the N900 unpacked in my pocket as my regular phone.
(- Of course, warranty would be usable only returning the N900 to my friend somehow..)

Where is the duties+vat catch? They cannot know I didn't have the phone when I arrived in USA right?
If it is illegal, take it just as a scenario; I don't see anyway how anybody would know the truth..

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

boarder officer at airport is accidentally n900 fanboy: HEY WAIT A MINUTE. THAT PUPPY CAME OUT LIKE 3 DAYS AGO. NO WAY YOU COULD HAVE HAD THAT PHONE ALREADY!

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

@thecursedfly

I don't know why it's illegal (strange that it would be.. are you saying your not allowed to buy anything in any other country besides your home country since you wouldn't be paying the home country taxes?). It just seems silly that it would be its in the rulebooks to prevent rich people or big companies from exploiting it (which is likely).

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

i think there are different laws when it comes to shipping a package international and taking bagage with you when traveling international.

look up the bagage customs. maybe somewhere here: http://www.cbp.gov/

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Why does the N900 cost so much more in Europe than in the US? (649 in France, 599 in NL or DE, but only 437 Euros in the US) VAT alone doesn't account for a 37%+ differential, does it?

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

*socialist-mode on* because they have a perfectly running two class system in wich the worker class earns even less money than the worker class in several european countries. but don't worry, we catch up! *socialist-mode off*

funniest thing is, that even exported products from the eu, are cheaper for europeans if they order them in the US. not in every case, but it works for bigger things like cars or high end computers for example.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Illegal yes, but impossible to get caught unless someone is both stupid enough to leave the phone inside original package and unlucky enough to be chosen randomly for customs check.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

'they' also have a voting system where you have the choice to vote for a pro-war/non-pro-war president. :D

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Again: It doesn't have to be illegal to bring the device into the country without VAT or duty. It depends on the country.
@thecursedfly: Simply check the customs regulations for your country. Maybe they even have a web page. It could could be that the value limit for bringing goods into the country toll-free is higher than the price of the N900. It is in some countries. Note that this limit is typically way higher than the limit for something shipped to you through the mail or UPS/FedEx.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

there is nothing to worry about! billing will be about 376eur and you are free to bring any equipment with you with an overall of 430eur. so buy your phone in the us and you are fine to bring it with you, but if you want to buy some more stuff keep in mind that you got only 55eur left to spend on new stuff and import it to the EU. this 430eur is only for stuff you bring with you, you are forced to pay taxes and vat if you send it home or anything like that. the 430eur is free per person.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Depending on the value of the device, if it was actually noticed by customs(they tend to miss them via certain routes), and if it actually comes into the duty zone. Also loose electronic components are without duty on import usually. Atleast for small orders.

I'm talking for within the EU. Yes the law allows for customs agents to actually stop you anywhere inside the EU zone. Not that they do this since it makes a bit to much of a logistical nightmare. I'm guessing this is one of those laws that are there if they actually need to pin something extra on a person. Not to mention there's nowhere near enough to actually handle such street duty.

As far as I'm concerned I don't mind paying VAT or duty on things I buy/import. I don't have to like it but I won't go to many lenghts to avoid it.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Mine was actually a scenario hypothesis, I'm not going to the USA, but was curious to know the answer.
Thx for answering.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Because we are *****s and electronic companies know that.
Oh, and we even have to pay for the Vaseline if we don't want it to hurt too much ;)

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

My question still stands:

Why does the N900 cost so much more in Europe than in the US? (649 in France, 599 in NL or DE, but only 437 Euros in the US) VAT alone doesn't account for a 37%+ differential, does it?

Is it all VAT? Some other tax? Like if the units are made in China, does the EU throw on import tariffs that the US doesn't? Does Nokia actually make more profit? Really, if anyone knows, I'm curious.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

As I said, they know that we're going to buy their stuff even with higher prices, and since everybody is doing the same, we either buy at those prices or don't buy any gadget at all.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Apart from the VAT difference there may also be a warranty difference between most EU countries and the US. In the Netherlands you basically are entitled to compensation or replacement if anything sold to you doesn't have the lifetime you could reasonably expect from it, regardless of what the manufacturer says about warranty.

More specific to Nokia: The UK website shows a 2 year warranty for mobile phones, the US website shows a 1 year warranty(pdf). This additional warranty of course comes at a cost.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

How do you mean 'so much more'? Nokia said it'd be sold for 500 EUR + VAT. That is 600 EUR. Which is what it costs at Nokia store. If you buy it elsewhere you can find it cheaper (as I have linked to earlier) because they buy in bulk. The price difference between those is about 40-70 EUR as I calculated. Which is 10-20% more, but not 37%, and its nomrla stuff costs more in Europe. I didn't invent that, but othere corporations like Apple and Dell do that too.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

If I buy a car from US I pay:

1) S&H.
2) Clearance fee (neglectable).
3) Import tax.
4) VAT (19%).
5) Environment tax.

The latter counts for new cars bought in NL too, and also imported cars from EU, because it triggers when one would get license plate. The tax differs a lot based on how bad the car is for environment. There are even cities in Germany where driving a SUV is illegal, or where you need special permissions.

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

The US price from Nokia's own store is the equivalent of 437 EUR ($649), not 500 EUR (which would be about $740). So I'm still curious where the 60+ EUR comes from -- are you saying that Nokia, Apple, and Dell can all just apply higher markups in Europe? What a funny notion of competition!

But besides that, you're saying that the VAT is about 99 EUR in Germany and 149 EUR in France?

(BTW, are you Dutch to begin with? You seem to have an American way of expressing yourself.) (Neither offense nor compliment intended!)

Re: Buying an N900 from the US, to use in EU
 

Could be, but Nokia said on that Nokia Summit on 3 September it'd cost 500 EUR + taxes.

That it'd cost then 600 EUR is no surprise because taxes is 19%.

That it costs less in USA (even after taking into account taxes) is no surprise either because other corporations like the ones I gave example of do the same.

Is that fair? I have no idea. It doesn't seem fair indeed however importing with S&H and all that nonsense added up does not warrant to buy it overseas. I found that lately usually buying from UK is cheaper than in EU (NL/DE) because the GBP is low. Also, computer parts have been traditionally cheaper in DE than NL. Not fair either perhaps, but it is as it is...

The VAT is in France 0,6% higher than in Germany or Netherlands. I have no idea why mentioned price difference exists.

Yes, I am (south-)Dutch, prefer British English over American English, and have no idea what an American way of expressing implies. :D