...a bit dangerous
 

Latest blog from Dr Jaaksi describes maemo as "a bit dangerous".

What happens if the market 'tames' Maemo? Can it be tamed? Or will it always have a slightly wild, liminal streak?

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Maemo is basically a home-run hitter. Now, what if the opposition is up so far that a home run can't save the game? Then a home-run hitter is useless, begins to get jaded and starts feeling his age. If somehow some other technology gets so far on top that Maemo isn't in the same league, enthusiasm will melt and Maemo will become a gathering of has-beens that used to be contenders, and key young people on the move will start disappearing. Maemo will be at best a farm team, a stepping stone to the big leagues.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Don't feed it after midnight.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

I'm not worried about the market taming Maemo. I'm a little worried that Nokia might tame Maemo, i.e. that some future device from Nokia might only work with tamed versions of Maemo.

Regards,
Roger

PS: Great first comment from Ari. Information-free, but great nonetheless.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Couple of other interesting quotes from Dr Jääksi's blog entry:

Hmmm. Nokia device policy (only one top end model; no proliferation in sight) is certainly aimed at keeping their Maemo more or less exclusive. Just maybe licensing has something to do with it as well.

Since my N800 was obsoleted by the "dangerous" Maemo platform (and later its screen became useless for text or images) I've spent more time following the mainstream tech media rather than fanboying around Nokia, but I've learned enough of this Maemo 5 to know that it's not the danger here. Nokia's strategy is.

There are, to put it simply, tech fanatics (incl. us), "normal folks" and then the technophobes.

Nokia's reaching a fraction of the first category with their Maemo (+ N900) strategy and very few users in the other two. Symbian still has some staying power in the other two categories (largely thanks to their massive channel), but that is vanishing fast, especially in the middle category.

Meanwhile Android is almost everywhere, whether you like it or not. Large number of different devices is coming out with it, there's competition, media and developer mindshare, decent service offerings from Google and support for many others, no apparent planned obsolescense for the devices...

Now, I don't even follow Android, but I can't help seeing new device reviews and general excitement or promise thereof... while Maemo news are few, far between and often smell of Nokia's corporate involvement.

So, shoot me for losing my early excitement about Maemo. I know it's more open in some ways, but how does it improve my life (unless I buy the specific Nokia device about to ship later this month, obsoleted by Maemo 6?)?

Nokia's lost this early adopter (and like many others like me, I do sometimes influence the decisions of those around me) and while their minitablet phone is bound to find new customers I still feel that Nokia control and exclusivity over the Maemo platform is indeed a bit dangerous game to play.

Phones are indeed computers, but what matters is how you deliver a good user experience to as many people as possible and not just to the daredevil types.

This soap box is slippery...

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

No such thing occurred.

At least not to any of the N800s in our household, which didn't quit performing when Maemo 5 came out.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Take it easy. Maemo will be much better with the N900 then with the N800.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Slippery soap boxes are dangerous... :eek:

My N800 and N810 are far from obsolete and even more uses will be found because of Maemo5.

Interestingly I spent Saturday night around a bonfire with friends sampling beers and wines, catching up, and generally enjoying the cool starlit, November night... a tradition of sorts in the northeast and northwest of North America.

I set down my n810 and fired up the latest version of YouAmp and had instant access to over 1200 songs that I keep on the tablet. This was a multi-generation happening so the uncles and aunts (my group) were satisfied with one collection I have of the 885 all time favorites of a local radio station, WXPN @ 88.5. I also have some more popular music that satisfied the nieces and nephews who ranged in age from 7 to 17.


Every one was quite intrigued with the search feature of YouAmp and that's what we used to control play back... If they didn't like the songs in queue all they had to do was enter a single word search term to generate a completely different list. That list would play until someone would remember another tune that the wanted to hear. They would then enter only as much info in the search that they needed until the song they wanted showed up, along with anything else that somehow also matched that criteria. They selected their song and the remaining songs on the new list would play after their song was finished. This went on for over four hours


There was remarks that the iPod could do this and the iPhone could do that but in the final analysis it was the N810 that came out of someones pocket, was set upon a log, and was ready to play with no wires, external speakers, or external power supply.

3 years ago the N800 that I paid $400 for would never have left my pocket. Because of the impending release of Maemo5, I was able to pick up an N810 for $150.
When I told folks that the N800 could be had for $50 bucks less than that, light bulbs went off over some heads . At that price buying one for a single purpose would not be outrageous and the thing is... this is just one of the single purposes that the tablets are very good with. :)

My point with all this is what "Market" are they loosing traction in?

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

You probably just didn't tell them. Mine jumped from a high table and died a horrible death on a tiled floor :)

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

A quote from Wikipedia:

A straw man is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic.

Maybe I'll explain this to you so you can move on to the actual point of the message and do a proper dismissal of my personal opinion...

The snippet "Since my N800 was obsoleted by the "dangerous" Maemo platform" - as you probably already knew - referred to the unsupported status of the Maemo 4 devices, with a measure of "dangerous" northern European sarcasm added for effect.

For the users of those devices the main "danger" lies obviously not in the platform itself but in its long since ceased development (incl. the often important closed source apps) and the lack of bug or security fixes. Heck, the development of supported platform (then Maemo 4, with subsequent version support implied) essentially ceased as soon as the N810 devices were released two years ago! (I am aware of the ongoing volunteer efforts that hope to address some of the "fixed in Fremantle" concerns)

Now clearly this issue has already been debated to its unwawering conclusion so it wasn't necessary to make it the headline grabber.

I gave you my fair view of market developments as I see them as a response to Dr Jääksi's "a bit dangerous" blog entry. You only have issue with my aside pointing out that a partially proprietary abandoned platform is the main danger for a user of platform too tightly controlled by a single corporate entity.

For Nokia (and the Maemo platform they control) the main danger may end up being lack of developer/user/media mindshare and a limited hardware ecosystem in comparison, say, with Android. Dr Jääksi's comments seem to imply that Nokia's fine with Maemo's status as a "dangerous" (fringe?) platform.

It is of course perfectly ok to dismiss any such concerns. I wouldn't dream of claiming that Maemo is going to die or anything as silly; just that the platform may not have the ingredients or strategy to reach its full early and even pioneering potential in the mainstream. If that is what Nokia and Maemo are satisfied with, hey, I'm cool with that.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Hahahaha... That would be "dangerous"

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

I spent some time wondering if the analogy of a dog (whom you own, train, and keep as a domestic animal) v a cat (who remains always partially wild and her own critter) was what Dr J was after.

Then I wasted a chunk of time debating with myself which OS is which sort of dog...

Wel,, it helped me get to sleep after reading a book on dying. ;)

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

...if people could just start thinking globally, instead of being so insular, US-centered...

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Maemo is a bit dangerous in that its almost a hearken back to the days of owning a car and doing your own tuning. There a certain amount of freedom and rough-edgyness that comes with Maemo that's a good thing - that, if the right people crow loudly enough about, will change how computing is perceived.

Of course, I might have to wait until I'm some uber CEO-type to see this in light of Jaaksi's comment about Maemo being more like an Alfa rather than a boring car. But in light of what many (here) have experience, I think that we can say that there's a bit more about Maemo's potential and current energies that's the kind of disruptive that the computer industry needs.

Whether that equals fun for all or not is another question. Who all likes to get oily under a car that can be both tempermental and grin-inducing all at onc ;)

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

What really concerned me with Ari's remarks are his definition of a computer:

"A computer of 2009 -- not 1999
When I talk about a computer, I talk about a computer people use today, especially young people. Think about the internet, messaging, sharing, openness, and think about browsers and players. Don't think about spreadsheets, word processors, file managers, or closed systems. That should put you in the right ballpark to start with."

To me computers are the things that deal with speadsheet, documents, file management, etc. Something that just does internet, messaging, media is more of a toy or a PDA, or smartphone, not a computer.

This is one of the major reasons I decided to buy an N900 after all. With Maemo 6 being for a capacitive screened device, I feel even more strongly that Nokia is moving away from a portable computer and towards a smartphone type device. After reading day after day about basing purchasing decisions on what's available, not what may be available, I decided to do just that.

I think the real danger here is that Maemo may end up being a mobile computer trapped in a smartphone body.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Or is the danger that the idea of what constitutes computing is a paradigm shift that some are not willing to make unless being dragged there ;)

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

And that^ is how I took the "dangerous" comment.

I've a few motorcycles in my garage and one of my favorites is a 1977 BWM R100 RT that I enjoy riding and have taken to calling "Brunhilda". She is coming up on 250,000 miles on her clock and she keeps on tickin'. Every spring all it seems I have to do is wipe off the dust and flush out the carburetor float bowls and she fires right up. Down the road we go on a comfortable ride where everything works the way it always has. It is kind of like I've been "married to "Brunhilda" for years.

Another favorite is a 1972 H-D Superglide, FLH. The FLH only has 17,000 miles on it and still it is in need of a top end rebuild. Every year it takes longer and longer to get her ready and my first ride usually is not until June. However, this bike gets all my attention and I am always buying it little trinkets to dress it up... I think I may have bought "Brunhilda" new foot peg rubbers two or three years ago.

In my case the Harley is the "dangerous" one. I don't even know her name because each year my experience with her is like a dangerous liaison.

...but don't tell Brunhilda about her. :D

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

So if other phones are like wives, Maemo is a mistress? As the sort of woman men have affairs with but never marry, I think n900 and I will get along just fine. ;)

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

It seems to me, that Maemo it generally as "rough around the edges" as you want it to be. There are probably a number of users who have never used the terminal on an N8*0, and probably enjoy it just fine (and won't on the n900 either). There are those who probably always have a terminal window open, and that is just how they operate. The N900 could work both ways. Simple for those who want to use it simply... downloading the basic apps that they "find", and those who want to try new things and to push the envelope. Kind of goes back to the car analogy brought up previously. The car is going to get you from point A to point A just fine, even without the Holly Double Pumper carburetor. The trip just wont be as exciting... but excitement is just a point of view.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

That's what I'm saying.

That is how I took his remark. In a way, it is a lowering of the expectations of some of the potential customers but it also sounds like that needed to be done.

A whole bunch of people are going to buy this phone simply because they believe its expense must mean it is the best. I doubt it will be the best for the general public's needs.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Oh, I'll be willing dragged there (kicking and screaming the whole way :) ).

But to go with the car analogy, to me it seems more like taking a V8 and putting it in a Ford Escort. It certainly changes how we look at car and driving. You can do some things well (go fast straight), but others not so well (cornering at speed). Put that same motor in a larger better designed (for the motor) car, you can go fast, corner, etc.

That's the danger I see, taking Maemo: taking that big strong engine that is Maemo, and putting it in ever smaller less appropriate shells (smaller screen, capacitive, less hardware buttons). Making it ever better a small subset of tasks, and ever less effective at a larger variety of tasks.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

You can't call it a mobile computer, when it clearly provides the same thing to end users. (an internet tablet with a phone) I was initially excited when I saw all the hype about mobile computing. WOW did they finally figure out its a computer? Maybe finally we will get Nokia to provide real computer apps, like office suites and printing support and games.

First is was "Its an internet tablet, not a computer". Now "its a computer, not an internet tablet". Yet what has changed? Was it the faster processor that made it a mobile computer? Was it the increased memory? Was it the smaller screen? Was it the phone being added?

It's always been a computer, but I see nothing changing from what existed before to what is available now to change it from an "internet tablet" to a "mobile computer"

Now its a computer, if you think about computers differently?

"Don't think about spreadsheets, word processors, file managers, or closed systems. "

If you think about people without jobs using the internet, its a computer???

It's always been a computer

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Yes, that part of Ari's post made me feel like Qole Quixote, a poor old deluded codger chasing an outdated dream while the rest of the world moves on...

Sure, I like all the connectedness stuff, too, but my "real computer" on my desktop does that kind of stuff in the background while also running the productivity apps. Instant Messaging, social networking and VoIP are all nice, and everything, but they don't define "real computer" to me...

I'm sorry that you've had that experience. :(

Not all men are afraid to commit to "dangerous" women. Keep looking!

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Tilting at windmills:

I'd like to think the N900 a 'real' computer because it can do the productivity stuff. It's no different from the N810 in that respect, and I've managed to use that beastie exclusively while traveling for word processing, a bit of coding, pseudo-constant contact, presentations etc. for around 18 months now. My hope is the N900 does this at least as well if not better. So, it's that kind of computer (in potentia) for me. (and I haven't forgotten the Turing Machine either)


I was musing over the dangerous thing though - as a device that's capable of connectivity in more ways than the N810 but looks like a phone, is it dangerous to, for example, the airport security people who like to look for computers and will treat it as a phone? Stuff like that came to mind, for me anyway. In a world of citizen journalism, it would seem that there is a danger to authority in such capable devices, N900 among them.

Or, perhaps it's dangerous because the constant connectivity/contact is so addictive? Which is why I'd be happy to turn off connectivity apps from time to time (maybe a control panel to do this for 30 minutes out of every 60, for example, might help me get 'work' done).

@YoDude - my own motorcycle history has in it a YZF1000, which was awesome and far too powerful for my own good. While I'm relatively capable, the capability of the motorcycle was beyond the vast majority of my skills, or those of my peers. Coupled with the lack of appreciation for bikes from the general cage-driving public, it made for an exciting ride every time. And every time I got off it was a sigh of exhilerated relief... I wonder, in the wrong hands, is the N900 dangerous in a similar way - capable of much more than the general public are aware and tempting us to push to the limit our responses to it (I can think of ways). Might not kill us, but could cause trouble...

meh. Perhaps it's all codswallop and marketeering from Ari... :)

Steve the luddite...

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

The problem is, the N900 is as much a computer as ANY device running an OS on an ARM CPU. Think about the set of devices that encompasses. The N900 distinguishes itself from them for better or worse by its OS (generally better except for available apps), its CPU speed (dropping in the polls as faster chips hit the market), and its RAM (still #1, I think).

But, I would argue, it is not an UMPC - an Ultra Mobile Personal Computer - competitor. Right now, I would describe the dividing line between a real, general purpose computer and a really smart smartphone in terms of a task: create a presentation in OpenOffice and show it to a meeting in at least 800x600 resolution on a projector using only the device, a cable, and a standard projector.

The combination of power (to run OpenOffice for content creation productively, not as an experiment), screen real estate and pointer resolution (to deal with manipulating graphics), and external display support (to run a projector or external monitor) is what makes the N900 less than a real computer in your pocket. A year from now, all bets are off thanks to Moore.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

You're pro'ly right on both those accounts. It's the "capable of much more than the general public are aware" that concerns me some...
Today I was behind a driver who was swaying back and forth in the lane and driving slowly. I didn't pass him because I didn't know which way he was going to swerve next. He tied up a line of traffic that stretched behind us for quite awhile. When he did move right to take on on-ramp to a hi-way I got by him. As I passed I noticed he had a cell phone in his hands. His hands were on the wheel but the cell phone display is what had his attention, not the dang road.

I'm afraid that the capabilities of future phones will provide even more ways to distract people who should really be paying attention to something else.

And BTW, some of the most "dangerous" woman that I have known didn't want to be tied down by someone "committed" to them. Some actively sought relationships with married men because of that.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

My biggest fear is the danger from a niche OS like Maemo going mainstream. It didn't really matter before that many of the built-in apps stored your password in plain text in the system registry, because Maemo devices weren't targets for malicious types. But when Maemo devices start showing up all over, I hope the 'dangerous' part won't be the danger of losing all your account info to crackers.

And I wonder now, if a woman identifies herself as someone men prefer to have affairs with rather than someone who prefers married men, is she really that dangerous after all? ;)

For operating systems and women, I think I prefer the appearance of danger over actual danger any day.

My OS can wear a leather jacket with the anarchy symbol on it and have piercings all over, just don't let me be a victim of identity theft...

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Same practices as running any operating system, only install applications from people or areas you trust, do the occasionally sweep. And if you notice any suspicious stuff, change all your passwords on a secure computer.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

To dream the impossible dream
To code the uncodeable app
To load the unloadable virtual partition
To run where the brave dare not go

To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star!

Qole, let me just say THANK YOU for all the hard work you have put in Easy Debian. It has saved my hide a couple of times when my PC died on me. At times I wish I could code to give you a hand, but I don't, so the most I can do is cheer your hard work. :)

I was also appalled by the the definition Ari gives of a computer. I don't know about you guys, but for me, a computer is a tool of my trade, is something I earn my living with, and for that, productivity tools will always, always trump everything else.

For me, a computer is defined by its versatility. So it's sad when I see devices coming to the market which try to box you in experiences you may not want. I couldn't care less about social networking (privacy), I do have a Facebook page, but only to check my friends from to time and to upload a picture or two. I do use VoIP and IM, but I wouldn't put those capabilities above the need to be productive on the go... because at the end, being productive is why I earn a paycheck (and without my paycheck I wouldn't be able to buy mobile devices...). So having a device for fun and for work is a balance that should be strived for, and having a true multi-purpose computer is the key for that.

Thinking about "the internet, messaging, sharing, openness, and think about browsers and players", is all good when you want to try to cash on the "hip" dollar, Apple style. But remember that hip dollar is inconstant and will chase the next big thing.

I am biased enough to think that the "boring" people that think about " spreadsheets, word processors, file managers" will be more faithful to the system in the long run (and I don't get what spreadsheets, word processors, etc, has to do with closed systems).

So yeah Nokia, go ahead and implement all the "fun" stuff in devices, all you want. But don't leave productivity on the side. There is a reason why the E-Series are such a big success.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

shhhhhhhhh

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The trick with being dangerous - for women or devices, I think, it to know that and behave accordingly.

I take great care about other people's men, knowing that despite my ordinary appearance, a full blast of my personality can be damaging to existing relationships. ;) I am the woman your Mother warned you about. (Interesting article in the Mail yesterday - yes I know, I was very bored - about the problem with more and more people being emotionally unfaithful and thinking it's ok as long as it's not physical.)

If, like Dr J, you're into fast, powerful cars, I presume you need to have the confidence to handle such a device safely: Personally, I would never drive an alfa - I'm not entirely convinced I could do so safely (and I probably couldn't reach the pedals). For me, driving a fast car might be worderful, but would be very scary. A powerful car in the hands of someone who can't manage it is a lethal weapon

Exactly how Maemo needs to be careful, or handled with care... someone enlighten me?

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

I think you and I would get along just fine. ;)

***

Any car in the hands of someone who can't manage one is a lethal weapon...

I don't think Maemo needs to be handled with care however, it might not be the best thing to use every day by the general public.

I did know a "dangerous" woman who drove a "dangerous", drop top, pearl white, Alfa-Romeo Giuletta. It was great for jaunts up the mountains to a favorite restaurant... I don't think it was something an average Joe would use as his daily commuter or the average Jane would use to pick the kids up from school with.

Also, the corollary to qole's fear would be that in the future the N900 becomes known its role in an infamous crime or a series of dastardly acts that the public becomes aware of.
The fear then could be that simply using an N900 gets one associated with the deeds of others. :eek:

In the end the remark may have just been the good Doctors attempt at marketing spin...

(I wish I could find a link to a recent stateside ad for Direct TV where the Cable Corp. Inc. decides that because customers are comfortable with Direct TV their strategy would be to market them selfs as the "edgy and dangerous" one...) :D

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I like the Direct TV commercial, where they say, we'll just raise the price, if we are more expensive than the competition, people will think we are better.

Things that make you go mooooo! ;)

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Sorry i'm late to the party but this looked pretty dangerous to me

[http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur...ed=0CAkQ9QEwAA Phone Explodes]

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The N900 is apparently quite dangerous, especially in the stage when it is transforming shapes.

See the video here: http://www.maemoproject.com/

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A fast car is a lethal weapon not just to others, but to yourself. You could crash it and die instantly.

A fast car, let's say a McLaren F1, is pretty much a finished and durable product. You can be running at 140MPH and need to brake fast to avoid an unseen obstacle. If you are skilled enough, have reactions fast enough, you will brake and you will save your life.

While you obviously won't be running a N900 at 140 MPH, Maemo can be dangerous to yourself because of its rough edges. Imagine you are in the middle of a very important presentation, and the kernel crashes because an unfixed bug. Your presentation went to hell, because the system you relied on had rough edges, and you weren't skilled enough to fix them yourself.

So in one case, lack of driving skill can get you in trouble, but it won't be because you didn't know how to tune your car. In the other case, lack of using skill probably won't get you in trouble, but lack of tuning skill can surely do. The inverse case can happen as well: you could be driving at 40 MPH, but the mechanic didn't check the brakes and you crash; you can have the most up-to-date Fremantle version, but you opened 30 YouTube videos, forgot to close them and you run out of memory.

I know the comparisons are a bit extreme, but I hope my point gets across. No system, ever, will be 100% fail-safe, error-free, or bug-clean. But that doesn't mean it is not an objective to strive for.

Risk will always exist, specially in systems with no boundaries. Plan ahead, have contingency measures, be aware of the system limits, of your own limits... and act accordingly.

Re: ...a bit dangerous
 

Alfas aren't necessarily very fast cars. What makes them interesting for enthusiasts is more about their look and the feeling they convey. They are beautiful, temperamental things that have soul and personality. They have a reputatation for not being very reliable and practicality is not very high on Alfa Romeos agenda. They often have quirks and peculiarities that occasionally might drive their owners slightly mad. Some might give up, but for those that endure it doesn't matter. As long as you have a little patience and give it a little love it rewards you tenfold when you take it for a drive on a countryside road on a sunny day. When you hear the clatter from the exhaust as you accelerate through your favourite corner you forgive it all its sins. The handling and overall feel of the car is just right, you feel like you are a team. Later you find yourself walking the long way through the garage just for a brief look at it from a new angle and maybe a gentle stroke along a fender. It is a car you develop a relationship with.

The vibe I have gotten from Jaaksis blog posts is that he wanted the N900 to be a bit like that. A bit of a rebel. It doesn't have to do everything right or always work the way you want it to. It doesn't have to play nice every day and yes, it might even be a bit naughty and dangerous at times. It's more about the feeling. It's different, has personality and if you only have a little patience and give it some attention it can grow to be a very close and personal friend. A very cool and interesting friend which will never become boring or predictable.

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I just hope Ari can see that his particular vision won't suit well with a more massive market. Perhaps there is a sweet niche between massive and enthusiast where Maemo tries to be (that would leave Symbian for mass consumption).

Edit: And said particular niche spot could on how much tuning Maemo needs to satisfy the needs of its target market. Tuning should not be needed for the system to work well out of the box. Tuning should only be needed for making things work very well for a particular use, or to add extra things or for cosmetic reasons (this being the reason of the panorama desktop?).

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Peet, I know full well what a straw man is, and I make sure to avoid them.

I simply took exception to your broad declaration there. Disputing that statement per se does not mean any logical fallacy occurred... just a bit of pedantry.

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Straw men can be dangerous too.

http://www.spirithalloween.com/image...704.zoom.a.jpg

But then again, I have been drinking.