maemo.org - Talk

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- Community (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - Sorry (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35053)

As someone who in much have lost the 'faith' in that the maemo platform will ever grow and mature into a professional, viable alternative - and adequately supported by Nokia - I guess I'd be the last person to be pro-N900 (with all it's flaws) - but I am. I still find it very refreshing to see a device come out that at least does things a little different and caters more to the hackers/tinkers amongst us.

Now. I still don't believe that the maemo 'community' will ever get to a size and have the level of organization/structure that is required to sustain both new developments as well as maintenance in a way that caters to the needs and expectations of professional users (and non-developers) - but, I hope I'm wrong.

But to the point. My girlfriend put it the best a few nights ago in reply to me whining about someone on the interweb who was 'being wrong'. She said:
"Do you guys know how extremely blessed you are to even have the luxury to worry and fight about something as trivial as this?"

A phone/operating system is really not enough to make people calling eachother idiots, jerks or trolls. It shouldn't even have the power to raise our blood pressure one bit. I wish I had kept that in mind myself more often - and to those of you that at one point or the other received a 'less than constructive and less than friendly' reply from me - please do accept my humble apologies.

I will, on that note, be cutting down my gadget-forum-time and try to focus more on things that truly, at the end of the day, matters [to me].

(Still hoping to one day see an N820 though) :-)

Is that you, with your girlfriend in the bedroom, in this picture?

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

To credit xkcd for the cartoon a bit better:
http://xkcd.com/386/

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvermountain (Post 390617)

Worrying and fighting for something as trivial as this...

i know just the show for you.

Curb your Enthusiasm.

watch it with your girlfriend. you'll see. you just need some perspective. And that show is exactly where you are going to get it.

Please don't feel too bad. We all get fired up sometimes for stupid reasons. It's human nature!

I do hope that one day Maemo makes a splash like it deserves. It would take a convergance of desireable hardware and mature software to make it happen.

Thanks for the useful reminder. Actually, we're *so* privileged that most if not all of what we curse at or bicker over every single day falls in the 'trivial detail' category that you describe.

Which we conveniently forget right away, because cursing and bickering are fundamental human needs :-)

Best perspective I've read in a while. But the N900 is possibly a dream I've had for ten years realized, so it will draw fire from within at times. I have to learn to channel it properly. Passion is good. Flaming is bad.

Original poster joined in May, not around long enough to judge long term development

Great post. Just don't expect me to sell my n900 and feed the poor, right? I'll do that with the heating bill money instead. ;)

Nice post by the way.
But I think, that N900 is one of the first steps that Nokia has in mind, and of course not the last word.
As already said in the threat, we are talking about long term development...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArnimS (Post 390804)

Original poster joined in May, not around long enough to judge long term development

You have to be on this forum to judge long term development?
If i'd known that i'd have stopped wasting my time elsewhere and joined sooner myself!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvermountain (Post 390617)

Now. I still don't believe that the maemo 'community' will ever get to a size and have the level of organization/structure that is required to sustain both new developments as well as maintenance in a way that caters to the needs and expectations of professional users (and non-developers) - but, I hope I'm wrong.

No, you don't. You don't care about the platform, and this whole thread demonstrates it. Some people do care about the platform. Some people have the required view and the required focus to try and do something about it. You're not happy with a specific aspect? That's absolutely normal. Nokia, with the N900, tried to cater for a wide audience, and that wide audience, currently, are the people who love the face-space, and people who blow money on petty ring-tones, the people who want bling and show off. The device may still have a very strong "geeky" connotation, because of its history and parents, but Nokia is a profit-aimed corporation, and they do want to make money, no matter which market they're in. I am a big supporter of the enterprise-targeted phone, and would love to have seamless Exchange integration and a calendar that rocks my socks off, phone conference support (joining conferences for example), etc. That being said, we can all help. If a feature is not there, and everyone missed it, be constructive about it. Report it, argue your case. People will listen if you make sense.

Let's not forget this platform is relatively young. It's a brand new way of doing things for Nokia, and everyone needs to adjust. Nokia isn't used to having to track an external, public bugtracker -- and it shows; but at least they're trying. But I digress.

What you believe, and how you insult this community is of no importance to us. Please do not insult our intelligence by pretending to be constructive, as you are just a senseless, ego-driven troll who seeks attention. You are not constructive by judging this community, and even doubting the fact it is that, a community (by putting the word community in quotes). The community around Maemo is thriving, growing and glowing, and if you fail to realise that at some point, we might be able to cater for most needs, then you are an idiot.

Don't judge a book by its cover. I've never heard of you, yet you allow yourself to cast a public vote as to our success? Nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvermountain (Post 390617)

But to the point. My girlfriend put it the best a few nights ago in reply to me whining about someone on the interweb who was 'being wrong'. She said:
"Do you guys know how extremely blessed you are to even have the luxury to worry and fight about something as trivial as this?"

Congratulations. Your girlfriend had a thought. If that was the "to the point" part of your post, I'll humour you and answer it.

Yes, we are blessed. Yes, we live in parts of the world that allow us to live under a roof, and have our Starbucks coffee on a daily basis while we commute to work. We've heard the tree-hugging monologue before, and it's starting to get pretty old. (Continued below)

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvermountain (Post 390617)

A phone/operating system is really not enough to make people calling eachother idiots, jerks or trolls. It shouldn't even have the power to raise our blood pressure one bit. I wish I had kept that in mind myself more often - and to those of you that at one point or the other received a 'less than constructive and less than friendly' reply from me - please do accept my humble apologies.

Again, I've never heard of you, so no need for apologies. I really think you should step down from the self-induced sugar highs and start thinking of yourself as a regular Joe.

Regarding the fact that a phone and operating system is not enough to flame, well, actually, it is. I'm not saying this because I'm a troll (which I undoubtedly am, seeing this post). We have people in this community working amazing hours, contributing tremendous amounts of effort to move forward and challenge the status-quo. It is that force that makes any project like this worthwhile. And yes, sometimes there are heated discussions, and sometimes some bad words fly, but in the end, most of the discussions that matter are held because they matter. All of us here are hoping to be credited at some point, but regardless of our motivations (being underpaid by Nokia or hoping to get a loan device), once we get all together, around a nice pint or dinner, most of us will put our differences aside, as we are really together for one reason: getting this whole damned thing to work.

I'm guessing you weren't there during the Summit in Amsterdam, but (and you must be in the same case right now), a lot of people loathed me for my foul mouth and extremely rigid and direct approach. And guess what, did anyone try to punch me at the Summit? No. We may scream and yell, but we remain civilised.

Any project where people put literally hours and man-days of free effort is worth fighting for. If that alone isn't enough to convince you that we have a future, I'm afraid there's really not a lot we can do for you.

Good luck for your future experiences,

Oh, did I mention, I love to argue with people on the Internet! ;) :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeraldKo (Post 390627)

Is that you, with your girlfriend in the bedroom, in this picture?

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashandDie (Post 392512)

And guess what, did anyone try to punch me at the Summit?

I tried, but you were too fast making your batman-like escape on that scooter-bike thing. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by qole (Post 392546)

Oh, did I mention, I love to argue with people on the Internet! ;) :D

I tried, but you were too fast making your batman-like escape on that scooter-bike thing. ;)

Qole, good to see you're out there defending Truth, Justice, and The Canadian Way. Superman is doubtless rolling over in his grave with Pride!

Yeah, with the N900, I can now come to bed and keep arguing on the Internet!

qole, i give you a +1000 for that video :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashandDie (Post 392512)

<snip ignorant blah>

No, you don't. You don't care about the platform, and this whole thread demonstrates it. Some people do care about the platform. Some people have the required view and the required focus to try and do something about it. You're not happy with a specific aspect? That's absolutely normal. Nokia, with the N900, tried to cater for a wide audience, and that wide audience, currently, are the people who love the face-space, and people who blow money on petty ring-tones, the people who want bling and show off. The device may still have a very strong "geeky" connotation, because of its history and parents, but Nokia is a profit-aimed corporation, and they do want to make money, no matter which market they're in. I am a big supporter of the enterprise-targeted phone, and would love to have seamless Exchange integration and a calendar that rocks my socks off, phone conference support (joining conferences for example), etc. That being said, we can all help. If a feature is not there, and everyone missed it, be constructive about it. Report it, argue your case. People will listen if you make sense.

Let's not forget this platform is relatively young. It's a brand new way of doing things for Nokia, and everyone needs to adjust. Nokia isn't used to having to track an external, public bugtracker -- and it shows; but at least they're trying. But I digress.

What you believe, and how you insult this community is of no importance to us. Please do not insult our intelligence by pretending to be constructive, as you are just a senseless, ego-driven troll who seeks attention. You are not constructive by judging this community, and even doubting the fact it is that, a community (by putting the word community in quotes). The community around Maemo is thriving, growing and glowing, and if you fail to realise that at some point, we might be able to cater for most needs, then you are an idiot.

Don't judge a book by its cover. I've never heard of you, yet you allow yourself to cast a public vote as to our success? Nice.

Congratulations. Your girlfriend had a thought. If that was the "to the point" part of your post, I'll humour you and answer it.

Yes, we are blessed. Yes, we live in parts of the world that allow us to live under a roof, and have our Starbucks coffee on a daily basis while we commute to work. We've heard the tree-hugging monologue before, and it's starting to get pretty old. (Continued below)

Again, I've never heard of you, so no need for apologies. I really think you should step down from the self-induced sugar highs and start thinking of yourself as a regular Joe.

Regarding the fact that a phone and operating system is not enough to flame, well, actually, it is. I'm not saying this because I'm a troll (which I undoubtedly am, seeing this post). We have people in this community working amazing hours, contributing tremendous amounts of effort to move forward and challenge the status-quo. It is that force that makes any project like this worthwhile. And yes, sometimes there are heated discussions, and sometimes some bad words fly, but in the end, most of the discussions that matter are held because they matter. All of us here are hoping to be credited at some point, but regardless of our motivations (being underpaid by Nokia or hoping to get a loan device), once we get all together, around a nice pint or dinner, most of us will put our differences aside, as we are really together for one reason: getting this whole damned thing to work.

I'm guessing you weren't there during the Summit in Amsterdam, but (and you must be in the same case right now), a lot of people loathed me for my foul mouth and extremely rigid and direct approach. And guess what, did anyone try to punch me at the Summit? No. We may scream and yell, but we remain civilised.

Any project where people put literally hours and man-days of free effort is worth fighting for. If that alone isn't enough to convince you that we have a future, I'm afraid there's really not a lot we can do for you.

Good luck for your future experiences,

i guess the reason you've never heard of him is just that you're fairly new to the site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashandDie (Post 392512)

You are not constructive by judging this community, and even doubting the fact it is that, a community (by putting the word community in quotes). The community around Maemo is thriving, growing and glowing, and if you fail to realise that at some point, we might be able to cater for most needs, then you are an idiot.

Reading your entire post I believe that it's because of people like you that community is within quotes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesgreen (Post 392820)

i guess the reason you've never heard of him is just that you're fairly new to the site.

Well... he's still longer around here than you are. ;-)
Also, no full quote needed.

I second that.

A friend of mine is asking me to post stuff in here and he is following the NITs since 770. He never signed up for the forums garage or else....
And I guess he never will.
Speaking for myself, I read the forums quiet a while before I joined to post something.
I did not have a NIT yet and have no N900 too. But I will help this community in my free time. I keep average Joe in mind any second, because this is what I want from a device like the N900, being Joe friendly. Sure I like to have a toy and most likely I will use it as secondary device the first weeks just to have time to play with it and brick it and flash it and try things and flash it again and brick it and finally use it as primary device. My experience will be posted here to become part of the community's knowledge base. If someone then starts a fight or is blaming me for something I wont call him jerk troll but maybe idiot, but I will help him to fix his device even if he was shouting at me.
Some time ago I was administrator for a gaming clan, some idiot was on a power trip and was blaming me for things he could have done himself, they forced me to step down. I still administrate the server as I know they dont have an admin to do so, technically I am not even in this clan anymore. I keep doing maintenance and support them, I decided to do so because it is nice to have people together in a community. Even if they virtually punch you in the face, dont take it that serious! most of it is missunderstanding.
some ubergeeks think they are god like and start a "look at you stupid" because someone never used a cmdline.

I know the power of my shell or better keyboard and I am not aware to make use of it. even taking the piss out of someone while helping him out and he tries to show you something with the mouse, you reset the pointer and grab the window resized in a split second makes him close to cry... he wont fight me because of this, I help him and he is glad I do.
but he is a bit pissed because he didnt understand, he wont ask me and I wont tell ;) well ok I tell...

what is the deal with sharing your knowledge and stay calm with stupid little users? I am operator and sometimes I like to be BOFH! I have to tell myself that they just dont know and I need to calm down and help them in a way they understand.
doing the solution and showing the solution are two different things which sometimes are not even neighbors or in the same town.

all this forms this community, if you dont see it, try to change your point of view

http://www.thewebsiteisdown.com/

We are all 'in-expert' in something. Just ask your doctor (Unless of course you are a doctor.