Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

There is a better choice out there. I cancelled my pre-order, and I will never go near Nokia again.

But I want to let you all know there is another option out there, and it is BETTER. The open Pandora gaming handheld is finally getting very very close to launch. It is a clamshell gaming handheld, has larger screen like the NITs, it does not have cell phone funtions or 3G... but in the US tmobile 3g is a poor option anyway. Most everything about this device is even BETTER than the N900, it also runs a full open version of *nix... and is not controlled by a corporate entity. That is the BEST part of the pandora, a group of enthusiasts got together to get them built, not some company that doesnt care about customers and screws everyone over. Here are some of the specs:

# Texas Instruments OMAP3530 processor at 600MHz (officially)
# 256MB DDR-333 SDRAM
# 512MB NAND FLASH memory
# IVA2+ audio and video processor using TI's DaVinci™ technology (430MHz C64x DSP)
# ARM® Cortex™-A8 superscalar microprocessor core
# PowerVR SGX530 (110MHz officially) OpenGL ES 2.0 compliant 3D hardware
# integrated Wifi 802.11b/g (up to 18dBm output)
# integrated Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR (3Mbps) (Class 2, + 4dBm)
# 800x480 resolution LTPS LCD with resistive touch screen, 4.3" widescreen, 16.7 million colors (300 cd/m2 brightness, 450:1 contrast ratio)
# Dual analog controllers
# Full gamepad controls plus shoulder buttons
# Dual SDHC card slots (up to 64GB of storage currently)
# headphone output up to 150mW/channel into 16 ohms, 99dB SNR (up to 24 bit/48KHz)
# TV output (composite and S-Video)
# Internal microphone plus ability to connect external microphone through headset
# Stereo line level inputs and outputs
# 43 button QWERTY and numeric keypad
# USB 2.0 OTG port (1.5/12/480Mbps) with capability to charge device
# USB 2.0 HOST port (480Mbps) capable of providing the full 500mA to attached devices (examples include USB memory, keyboard, mouse, 3G modem, GPS)
# up to two externally accessible UARTs and/or four PWM signals for hardware hacking, robot control, debugging, etc.
# un-brickable design with integrated boot loader for safe code experimentation
# Power and hold switch useful for "instant on" and key lockout to aid in media player applications on the go
# Runs on the Linux operating system (2.6.x)
# Dimensions: 140x83.4x27.5mm
# Weight: 335g (with 4000mAh battery)

I am thrilled to be getting this device as opposed to the N900, I was never going to use the camera on the N900 or the GSM portion, I will be able to use skype on the pandora... and its only $330!!!

One of the greatest things, is they let the community know what is going on with the launch. They dont lie and hide things, they keep everyone up to date. Their forums are not filled with shipping threads, everyone doesnt have to spend time putting rumors together and trying to figure out where and who are getting the few first devices. Look here for that info:

http://openpandora.org/index.php?opt...mid=13&lang=en

This is their main site, please check it out:
http://openpandora.org/

I have been enthusiastic about Maemo in the past, but it is unfortunate that Nokia will be controlling it. Instead of them looking out for what is best for the OS, they will look out for what is best for Nokia's bottom line. I will be looking into Mer for my N800, and still have high hopes for ARM linux on handhelds, but I am done with anything Nokia.

Also, for those that need cell internet to be able to get online anywhere, consider spending the extra $ you save getting the pandora, on a 3/4g to wifi router. There are a lot of good option out there, and a portable cell to wifi router + the pandora will still be cheaper than the N900

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs?
 

That device looks horrendous!
Fair for a 4000mAh battery..

You would still carry a phone, now 2 things to carry around with you, so why not get the N900..

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs?
 

I preordered one within the first 20 minutes of it going live last year 2008. I am currently is the queue position 400-500 so should get it before christmas fingers crossed. I love all my Retro gaming (Emulators) won't be doing much on the n900 as the controlls but the open pandora will be getting a lot of gaming action from me. I still love the N900 and I will be carrying both of these in my man bag :-)

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs?
 

I might end up carrying a cell to wifi router, but I wont carry a cell phone, I will be able to use skype just fine.... and it will be practically free.

I suppose this would appeal more to the enthusiast or developer/early adopter market. Like the NITs, it is not meant for the average retail phone user, and it is not meant to be a phone, it is meant to be a mobile computer. Not a PDA or smartphone or other limited device, it is meant to be a full computer to do what you can do on a netbook etc.

I will not be getting an N900 because I have come to realize that all the issue with shipping are a stark example of why a single corporate entity should not control an open OS. The open model just does not fit with the corporate model. There are conflicting goals, and in the case of Maemo, Nokia's monetary goals will ruin any advantage that the openness of Maemo gives.

Congrats noel, I will be eager to hear when you get it, and your thoughts after getting it. I am super excited, and cannot wait, I really think the pandora will do absoultely everything I need. I will be able to replace almost everything I currently carry around with the pandora.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs?
 

It looks technically very good actually, though the casing is quite ugly and even chunkier than the N900.

The specs are so close to the N900 that porting Maemo to it would be a serious option!

Tbh, if I'd known about the OpenPandora before finding out about the N900*, and if it had 3g built in capable of telephony as well as data (tethering to another device will only provide data), I'd probably have ordered the OpenPandora and used a Bluetooth earpiece to make phone calls with it.

But it doesn't, so I'll stay in the preorder-queue-of-unknown-length for an N900 for know.

It's good to know there is serious open competition of similar technical capability out there. And it's lovely to know that open source minded non-corporation groups can make such technically up to date hardware - at least inside, if not the design aesthetic :rolleyes:

* - I knew about Maemo from the beginning, but I always knew I'd only be interested when it was a phone too, and did rather wonder when the first Maemo device came out why it was missing a simple cellular modem that would have made all the difference. Now with hindsight the "plan" makes more sense.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs?
 

They are certainly somewhat in conflict, but remember that even corporations vary, and sometimes change the way they do things.

From the outside, it looks like Nokia is dabbling in open source (seriously, but not with the full company committed), but there is a part of Nokia (the Maemo part) which is trying to find a way to make the combination work, and which may grow if it does work.

Since nobody else has seriously tried in this area, it's hard to know whether it will succeed. (And if it fails with Nokia in the end, that doesn't mean it can never work with anyone. And if Nokia does shy away from openness, because open source, Nokia will still have left a legacy that others can build on).

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs?
 

I think a lot of people are going to get a good laugh out of this post. Don't take it too personally.

You just posted prematurely. A little more research would have probably made you write a very different post.

As far as I know, finding something that is clearly better than the N900 is almost impossible. Some people might find something that suits their own needs better (maybe an iPhone, maybe a Droid/Milestone), but those products all fall short of the N900 in some very important ways.

Pandora is well known on these forums. No one would say it is the N900 killer.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs?
 

Well if size or design doesnt matter I guess there's alot of options out there. I don't think the pandora would fit in my pocket and then I could just get a laptop. Otherwise it seems really great.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

He's completely right about Nokia's attitude. It doesn't fit the device at all.

But you have to admit, the N900 is just a better package...

Something's fishy
 

Hey, something's fishy about this claim.

How can it have a PowerVR chipset and be "open"?

PowerVR are so closed that they've ruined Intel's previously glowing reputation for open graphics for Linux. (In fact they're not even providing decent closed graphics for Linux either. Search for Linux + Poulsbo.)

If you're going to call a device that has major closed source components "open" and "not controlled by a corporate entity" - well, N900 satisfies that definition too.

You realise you don't have to run the Nokia official version of Maemo on your N900, don't you?

I like my devices as open as I can get, too. The N900 is disappointing in many respects, in that department. But I don't see that OpenPandora is any better, unless they have managed to produce some open source drivers that Nokia have not? In which case, that would be absolutely wonderful as we could port those drivers to the N900 ;)

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs?
 

You are right, there is no way to be certain about the future of it. I am sure that there are people within Nokia devoted to the true open source way also. But ultimately, the way this launch has progressed has really convinced me that the people who call the shots currently at Nokia are putting the good of Maemo and the good of the customer at the bottom of the list. Not only do I think this is bad for an open source OS, but I also believe this is bad as a buisness model.

By no means am I a master of buisness and industry, but as an active consumer, I feel this is the wrong direction to take. Maybe things will turn around in the future, and maybe Nokia (or the controlling players at Nokia) will learn from the mistakes made here and now. In my experience though, those kind of people never learn... and if the device sells well, nothing will ever change, and it will be considered a success. Because monetary success is what matters most to a corporation, that is usually all that is taken into account.

Regarding the openness, I may have mistyped something. I was commenting on the opennes of the OS, not of the hardware. I may not have the whole picture though, I am not an expert by any means. As stated on the site, it runs http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ with a few changes.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

As MountainX mentioned, I also got a good laugh out of this post. Seriously, sick of release problems? Imagine if the N900 was announced when it was, but then released NEXT YEAR after many delays? How about that?

Sure, the creators of the Pandora are active in their community and give updates but that still doesnt excuse the many delays that have occurred. I'm pretty sure if the same would happen with Nokia no one would forgive them. Just look how pissed people have gotten with this 1 month delay, can you imagine being one of those early buyers and having to wait a year and a few months?

Also, how are you sure there are not any launch bugs? As far as I know they just were able to get a working Wifi stack and other functions early November. As a matter of fact, Craig stated that the 2nd batch is not only going to get delayed because of supplier constraints but also to improve the software. Seriously, to imply that the Pandora will be bug free is an overstatement.

Also, to any potential buyers now interested in the Pandora, good luck getting into the initial 4000 batch of units being sold. The second batch is expected to be released sometime at least June 2010.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs?
 

Based on my experience seeing companies delivering products from the inside, to be honest the release debacle looks more like corporate cock up than anything else.

Nokia ship umpteen million units monthly; they should know how to handle a release of another device. Something unusual happened with the N900, and it doesn't look (to me) like it was done for money.

I'm an unhappy preorder (still waiting) customer at the moment, having had my order cancelled for me twice now, and I've made a lot of complaints over various ways they handled it badly.

But I think that is very much a customer service issue, and probably quite a complex one (you can't just let a building full of service operators give discounts to whoever they feel like, and you can't pass all the individual customer problems to higher levels if there are too many).

I didn't see anything about the release problems which is due to Maemo being open source, and I didn't see anything about it which could not happen to something like OpenPandora if that was going to sell >1M units per year.

I do agree that it would be better if Maemo were made available to more manufacturers, in the same way that Android is, though.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

the last open source and open design thing I saw was Openmoko, lots of potential but never usable for standard users not even for geeks

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

I was not trying to imply that the pandora would be bug free. As I said, this is probably a device more for the tech savvy market. I have seen a lot of discontent on the forums with regards to the N900, and I wanted to present what I had found as a viable replacement.

My problem is not with delays, my problem is with the conflicting position of Nokia and the Open community. Personally I feel outraged not because of a product being delayed, but of the closed mouth attitude of Nokia, no info or bad info. This has lead me to understand the conflicting interests involved, and to the conclusion that continuing to support Nokia down the wrong path is not a good idea.

The N900 will probably be a great device (hardware wise), and I understand that I could run anything else I want on it. If I buy it though, I will be supporting Nokia's bottom line. I would be adding to the impression that they are doing things correctly, which I do not feel they are.

Mods- thanks for correcting my thread, I appreciate it.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

Breaking news!?!








Yes, but from 2008 ;)

See jessi3k3's post above.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

I acknowledge your concerns.

Remember that Nokia is a rather large organisation, and the people who deal with releasing information and selling devices aren't used to working in a more "open source" (i.e. more transparent) way.

If Maemo proves successful and they recognise that success is connected with it's openness on a technical level, then we can hope the positive feedback induces some gradual cultural change to spread through the organisation. We can't count on it, but there's a chance.

Right now, there's no reason to believe that any organisation can deliver technology at this level in the huge numbers that phones are produced, while being as transparent about each step of the process as we would like. I don't think it's been done. Can you think of examples?

Actually, scratch that. I think Nokia are being stung in part because they've been somewhat transparent about Maemo's development and release plans.

If an S60 phone was delayed by several months, it wouldn't be a big deal. Nobody would care, it's be just another moved release date - common in the industry. There wouldn't be hordes of people with high expectations getting sorely disappointed.

In some ways, perhaps the biggest mistake they made was to announce a retail release date too early, and to accept preorders. They'd have been better off generating buzz, and accepting preorders when it had passed QA, had a manufacturing and delivery pipeline sorted out, and was definitely going to be in the shops a couple of weeks later.

In short, they cocked up, and something went wrong, but it looks to me like we're all suffering in part because of too much information coming out, in some aspects, rather than in spite of it.

Oh, and because it's a phone. Everyone expects it to do all the things that previous Nokia phones do very well, despite it being a completely new line of development and the old phones being extremely mature software. If it wasn't a phone, there wouldn't be such excitement, such passion, such complaining...

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

Almost no one will argue with you that Nokia has made some missteps with the N900 launch, including the DDP program. (I think Nokia will admit it themselves.)

But as you guys gain more experience with open source I think you may see that Nokia is doing a lot of good. Sure there are conflicting opinions. Open source is not free on controversy. But Nokia is doing many things that add value to the entire open source community. Without corporate supporters open source would probably be dead (or close to it). Even Linus has worked for corporations along his path of developing Linux. And I think he would disagree with you about an inherent conflict. (If you go look up his quotes on this subject, let me know if I'm wrong.)

My own position is that I want to do everything I can to encourage Nokia to keep supporting open source because they are adding tremendous value. Even if they have screw ups at times, the development work they are doing is beneficial to the community.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

I would be getting a Pandora if my goal wasn't to conslidate my devices.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs?
 

You're not going to want Pandora either then. It's being released by a corporation too.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

Certainly coporations have made great contributions to open source, I agree. Many corporations have contributed to Linux along the way, and that is GREAT. Nokia runs the whole show with Maemo though, it is not just contributing peices here and there to something that it doesnt own, Nokia calls the shots. If that had been the case with Linux along the way, I do not believe things would be the way they are now.

Zerojay, the PANDORA is being released by a corporate entity created just for the production of the device, it was really a group of enthusiasts that got together. But that is not what I am talking about, or are you telling me that a *real* corporation controls Angstrom linux?

Ultimately, Nokia is developing a product with Maemo, they are not CONTRIBUTING to something, they are DEVELOPING something for themselves. Maybe part of the problem is that Nokia is focused on the OS and the device, its possible that Google has a good thought that the same company that works on the OS shouldnt make the devices... but I am not sure. Google scares the hell out of me, and id trust Nokia to control an OS long before I would trust Google to.

This is way off topic though, I wanted to present the pandora as an alternative. Someone had said I would still need to carry a phone, and asked why I would not just get the N900. I had explained why I would not do that, but I was not trying to start a great open source debate, I am certainly not qualified for that.

I have presented how I feel about it, im sure many people feel I am wrong, and more power to them. To each their own, this is how I feel and because of that, I wanted to let others know about a great device out there that could be an alternative for anyone that gives up on the N900.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

Well, I'm glad you did mention the Pandora. It's good to see what else is happening, and the internals are so similar that it's quite relevant.

And yes, you're right to some extent that Nokia is running much of the Maemo show.

On the other hand, if Nokia closed the project tomorrow, Maemo would still be here for someone else to put onto different hardware.

Just as people are talking about hacking Android to run on the N900, perhaps as an app so you can run Android apps and Maemo apps side by side - it's not out of the question to talk about hacking Maemo to run on sufficiently powerful Android devices.

Not that anyone would want to at this time :) But maybe if it gets somewhere, we'll see some cross-pollination. Especially of app frameworks, libraries etc.

That's the beauty of Free Software. ;)

Even if Nokia, Google et al want to control it, they can't completely control it.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

yes. pandora is THE solution. if you live in china that is.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

If you have checked Pandora website ... you may find people run into bricking their device without any clue too. It's way more hackish device than N900 I would say.

I have to say 'grass always looks greener on the other side'.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

Yes, I did mention it was a more enthusiast/tech savvy device.

I wasnt aware anyone in the general public had the device though, could you point me in the direction of one such thread? I have checked the forums and have not seen any, perhaps I missed them.

I understand what you mean though, it is not for everyone. I would be suprised if people did not have issues with the pandora also. However, as noted in the specs, they do take this into consideration in the design:
un-brickable design with integrated boot loader for safe code experimentation

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

Well, the N900 is available now, while for the Pandora you will have to wait two more months ;) ... so there's that...

PS: The irony of this thread's topic -- priceless! :D

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27343

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

It's during the beginning of this year when some people got the dev boards. And I was investigating major OMAP3 platforms for development OpenGL ES2 apps.

Thought the posts might be buried somewhere since it's very old.

To develop OMAP3 apps, you have several choices:
1. iPhone 3GS: easy, convenient! but you live in the fruit basket cage.
2. Palm Pre: no SGX access even it has equipped the graphics card. and you shoot yourself to write javascript like apps if you wanna pursuit performance.
3. Pandora: yeah ... not available. And it does not have camera or other decent integrated HW sensors. I prefer to develop touch experience apps.
4. Beagle board: cheapest way and you can extent HW capabilities with modules. yet, it does not come with decent integrated HW sensors and touch.
5. Android: well ... I don't know any OMAP3 platform Android yet. Snapdragon platform might be worthwhile to take a look though. But it's not as open as Maemo.

It's like shopping ... you want everything come with well pack, go for Android of iPhone. If you like to customize built, go for Maemo.

But things may change since Qt is available on Maemo. I am actually writing Qt app on Mac and compile it under scratchbox (with another Linux box). Hopefully we can get rid of scratchbox soon. Only Qt-Creator is needed (Qt-Creator already added experimental Maemo support in the latest Git but not sure how to turn it on ...).

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

LoL, that poll is hilarious!

Well thanks for clarifying, was unawares that any of the 105 were released to people. Also, I appreciate the run down on developer considerations, I am wondering what you mean about not available though for the Pandora? Is that, no way to develop yet, or too dificult, or there will be no option after its released? I know it doesnt have a camera, but I thought it was resistive touch like the n900, along with the ability to add external sensors? Please forgive my ignorance if I am missing something.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

I wouldnt be talking about n900s release problems with pandora. how was the speculation that pandora ships first a while ago?

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

@11/(14-17)/09:
No offense, but I bet you haven't developed any serious SW project yet. =P Spending the energy to hack the HW, I would rather focus on SW side. I have tried soldering HW packages loooong time ago for college project. Measuring those voltage output, stability and wakeup test ... Man, you definitely don't want to do it again. Even though I don't like QEMU at all.

You could order one Pandora and let me know how good the experience is. =]

And to develop your Pandora apps now without even a board on hand while Maemo is far less painful (even Beagle board is much friendly!)? (Note that Nokia has provided RDA service if you don't have device: http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technolog...Device_Access/)

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

is not the answer! I was one of the suckers who pre-ordered the Pandora and after countless RELEASE PROBLEMS AND LAUNCH BUGS, I demanded my money back. It could be a great device but the thunder is gone. They've taken far too long to release it.

I appreciate the work that the GP32X community has put in. We have some fine emulators that run on ARM processors now. My N900 runs DrNokSnes, Vgb, Vgba, iNES, DOSBox, Mastergear, ColEm, fMSX, Speccy and Quake3 NOW. I also have a great web browser and a phone. That's more than what the Pandora project can offer me today.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

I believe the Pandora will be great and I'm getting one, I ordered last year. I already built applications on the Pandora SDK and executed the same on my N800 [app. compiled for omap2 though], there's a lot of synergy between the N900, the Pandora, and the BeagleBoard (which I also have). But the Pandora isn't much of a replacement for the N900. I'm getting the Pandora as an upgrade of my N800. The good thing about the N900 will (hopefully) be that, in situations when I'm forced to leave most of the gadgets behind, I'll be served well by the single N900. Although the main reason for gettting myself the N900 is to get a Maemo 5 device (or I wouldn't have much left to do on this forum! :))

However: There's not much use preaching about the Pandora to those who have not ordered one already, because the second batch isn't queued for another 6 months (at least) yet. That's because the factories involved have slots you'll have to wait for. There may be a very few devices still available for ordering (due to cancellations among those too tired of waiting), but most of them are probably called for already.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

as if the Pandora won't have release problems or launch bugs.. :D

(well, no release problems is possible, if there are less people buying it.. with subsequent small community and less applications etc..)

not counting all the functionalities and design (today, this counts too for many people) you'll miss compared to a N900... ;)

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

Hmm, I pre-ordered a Pandora, scheduled for delivery in late November (well actually there was talk of early October iirc), 2008.

As the thing has still not materialised, I don't think it's a very good example to pull up to compare with N900 delays.

With that said, if it does indeed appear, it will probably be quite a nice hacking platform (which is why I wanted one in the first place). The big problem is that it's now more than a year late, and other things are about.

Anyway, good luck with it, I do hope we'll see some cross-pollenisation as they both use fundamentally the same SoC.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

The Pandora looks so uncomfortable! What's the point in making such an ugly device? I would feel ashamed running around irl with something as grotesque as that!
http://www.linustechtips.com/wp-cont...9/untitled.jpg

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

It's a clamshell device (like e.g. the Zaurus c3000). Some like clamshells, others don't. It's also a gaming device, so it's got the extra buttons and nubs above the keyboard. The latter will always make it look a bit strange to non-gamers.
I'm a non-gamer, but I don't care too much about the nubs and all that. I look at the specifications and the size.

BTW the rendering on www.openpandora.org looks quite nice.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

Waiting a month or so is hard when you want to have your device now. But remember some of us have been waiting since the 770 days, and others are still waiting for the next generation non-phone internet tablet.

I am confident the N900 will be worth waiting for. And if one is waiting, you've already decided that the iphone or an android phone is not what you want.

Not everything may be open and communication is not the most transparent with Nokia, but they have made a serious long-term commitment to the open source community that few others have been able to sustain.

My OpenPandora delivery has been delayed at least a year and counting. When I preordered, it looked to be the first to market with game-changing specs. Now it seems that everybody has an OMAP3 device and the Pandora is late to the party.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

Uh... wow, you don't realize how wrong you are here.

Nokia's working on their own devices, sure... but by using open source to do it, they *are* contributing. Nokia employees contribute upstream to so many open source packages - many of the same ones that you're probably using this very second - that it's not even funny... and frankly, what you said is completely insulting.

In short, yes... not only are you wrong, but the sheer magnitude of how wrong you are is incomprehensible. Nokia's giving back to the software they are using just as much as the Pandora guys are... and *way* more. Don't believe me? Go look for @nokia.com addresses in commit messages all over the place.

It's the whole reason why Maemo isn't simply an internal Nokia project.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

You make some interesting points, and the Pandora really does look like a lovely device.
But these enthusiasts don't have the experience that Nokia has in developing a portable device. Both in hardware and software, and I fear that that is going to make the device less useful than the specs would like you to believe.

To give you an idea what I mean:
A few years ago I bought three linux based devices around the same time: A Nokia 770 internet tablet, an Asus WL-700gE Wifi router/NAS/download device and the GP2X gaming handheld.

I really liked all three devices, but all of these devices were buggy and had some hardware problem or another. But the Nokia 770 was in my opinion the most polished device of the three. The most important feature: a good portable web browser, was working correctly. For the Asus router I considered the NAS feature to be the most important one (otherwise I would have kept my normal wifi router), but that feature had some serious usability bugs (speeds problems, maximum file size etc. etc.). The GP2x also had problems with it's killer feature: playing emulators. The direction pad had a hardware bug (was fixed in later revision), and there were some screen problems for example.
I'm not saying that Nokia devices are perfect, but if you compare them to some cheap Asian alternatives you will notice that Nokia really does put effort in a lot of usability and durability aspects of it's devices.

The Pandora may be wonderful, but because of my previous experiences with linux-based devices, I want to see the device in action for myself first. I have confidence in Nokia devices, so for the time being, I'll buy those.

Re: Sick of release problems and launch bugs? Pandora
 

zero-
I was worried that phrasing would come back to haunt me if taken too literally.
I understand the fact that its 'open source', but the guiding forces within Maemo, are ultimately answerable to Nokia. Maemo as a whole is a product and not all of it is open, it must be liscened by another company to be put on another device (as a whole). As Nokia is a hardware manufacturer, I understand the motives for this. As I mentioned earlier, the problem may in part be that they work on the hardware and the OS. Even the name Maemo is trademarked by Nokia.

I am not trying to insult Maemo, any of you, or the work you are doing. I question Nokia and their motives, and the final outcome. I didn't really want to discuss this any more in this thread, but id rather not you go away thinking I am some baffoon calling Nokia the next Microsoft. I know how open source works, and that Nokia has contributed to the kernel and to debian, and that much of Maemo is in fact open which is where Mer came from, as a project to replace the proprietary parts (as I briefly understand it).

If you really want to talk about it more, please PM me, as this is again, very off topic.

Bernard -
That is a good point, and certainly one I can understand from a consumer point of view. It will be interesting to see how that is when it is released, however I will be happy with it either way, as it is something I want to get with a goal of eventually contributing to.