Does lack of pirated commercial software affect n900 sales? (Title changed)
 

Ok I wanted to start this rather controversial thread not so that I can find pirated software, but rather open up for discussion regarding this matter.

One of the problems with maemo is its lack of applications compared with some other OS:s. Another problem, that I foresee, is potentially the lack of hacked applications for n900.

Now don't get me wrong. What I mean is that many people are looking for devices not only with many apps but also apps that they can get for free, i.e., pirated software.

Many people, not only students, cannot afford buying gps software for 70 bucks. Not to mention the majorety of people living in non-Western countries (think India, China, etc.).

Some other people just want as many apps as possible because "its cool", they want to show of their new phone, or just simply because "its fun to collect".

I have heard many people say that they will buy Xbox360 over playstation 3 because you can download cracked Games.

What do you guys think?

My personal opinion is that for any device related with software of some sort; music, games, apps etc.. there must be a certain degree of interest in allowing cracked software to exist.

I am a strong believer that many hardware manufacturers intentionally allow creepholes just so that more systems will be sold. It is also my belief that the best thing for Nokia would be if heavy apps were crackable. In fact I am conviced; I think Nokia intentionally (but barely legally) used the Nintendo emulators (links now removed since Nintendo complained) as fuel to sell n900. :rolleyes:

Only time will tell how it will be for Maemo 5. I wonder how Nokia thinks and how Developers think. The developers will probably want many devices to be sold, but keep as many buyers as possible. Its optimization of economic profit in some way :p

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Someone who can't afford 99 cents to pay for apps is going to afford to pay $650 for an unlocked phone?

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Oh my god, I wont be able to pirate any apps..... BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL FREE!!

Definitely a dealbreaker for me :p

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Well this thread was not only meant for n900, but rather Maemo 5 and Maemo 6. Hopefully there will come devices for much less than that in the near future to expand the user base.

You know, people in India and China uses mobile phones. Poor people as well.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

to the original Poster:

Do you know anything about Linux?

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

And you think 3:rd party gps software will be free? And games from Electronic Arts for n900? I am hoping that we will get commercial applications for n900 (which we will soon).

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

I am using Scientific Linux at work and Ubuntu at home

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

I think you have a vast misconception of the linux developer base. Nevertheless, this thread won't end up nicely.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Why would a company port their software to a platform if the users of the platform are a bunch of criminals looking to steal their software?

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

You do of course know that there are a number of applications, runnihg on Maemo, that are commercial and not free?

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Why would the guy from highschool buy a device if he cannot afford the l33t software his best friend got for free for his jailbreaked iPhone?

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

I really think this is a funny thread.

The way it works is if lots of people start writing lots of commercial software for N900 then someone will crack the software. But I don't think Nokia is hopeing for lots of piracy of software. Most companies try to prevent it... not make is worst. Haha... I mean if Nokia says we welcome piracy... who would want to write software for the platform.

But like I said... if there is lots of software... there will be some piracy. But Nokia will never support piracy. Haha....

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

It's an interesting theory. Yeah, I'm sure that there are people out there like that, but there's a big difference here compared to the console. On neither the 360 nor PS3 are games given away for free... so I guess there's more of a desire to get around restrictions so you can run pirated games.

Since most apps on Maemo to this point are free... I don't think it really fits your analogy... but of course, we're probably going to see more pay apps as Maemo goes on. Hell, we even saw the Wayfinder app on previous tablets hacked by people here so...

Again, I could see your point when the consoles are $300+ and each piece of software is $60+... but not in this case where the phone is over $600, most phone apps are less than $10 and most of the apps on Maemo are free.

Like I said, though... interesting theory.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Here is the point for most piracy. Yes apps that cost .99 seems like small fries to buy. But he is talking more of the collector pirate who is not downloading apps they need... but just becuase they can. They might download 5,000 ipod apps.. but never even mess with more than 10 of them.. because they have to catch them all. Haha..

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Sure, but there's( pretty much) always a free alternative.

Though it's true that for those applications for which there isn't one( or it's clearly inferior) there's going to be interest in having them "pirated", and in that case it's going to be a simple task, because there's no drm or the like.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

[There shouldn't be any conversion on this topic, pirated software is illegal.

[This is only a matter of time. Remember ours are free, so apps take longer to develop, that doesn't mean that there won't be as many, you'll just have to wait a bit longer ;)

[That's the whole point, take a look in Extras, all free. People don't need pirated software here. Don't think you quite get the concept? :)

[So non-western countries can't afford apps, but they can afford $500-600 on the device??? Plus gps software and maps are native, plus others that will come along. Which software did you mean by the way?

[This will be me :D:D:D

[True, but I brought it for live, not everyone wants to be a criminal. :D

[There is always interest and always will be, but you can't base your decision on whether you can get your hands on cracked software???

If your interested buy the device, learn about it, wait for other lovely people to design new apps and upload them to here for free, or design them yourself.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

people who say this basically do not have any ideas whats going on. it doesnt matter of wii, 360 or ps3 - downloading and playing games on these consoles is no problem whatsoever. on wii, you dont even need to hardware-modify your console. its a matter of 5 minutes to enable your wii to play burned games.

anyway, most apps for the n900 will be free anyway - so whats the problem?
for the most commercial programs that will be available for the n900 there will be free alternatives.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

They say don't feel the trolls......

Clearly open source software is not being represented properly (to the general public).

The classic analogy is that free software is like a beverage, you can give it to someone for free, but you didn't give them the recipe (i.e. they don't know what is in it). Open source software is often said to be free as in the freedom of speech, however that is confusing to some, we'll say it's like being given the recipe to that beverage. This gives you the ability to make it, modify it and distribute it.

As far as the a lack of pirated things available, hah! They are called ROMs. The emulators available are open source, yet it is Bring Your Own ROMs.

There is also the wayfinder trial, editable-enabled Office software, etc. that can be screwed with.

Now why can't you use your favorite *insert some proprietary software*? Chances are it was written for Windows and almost guaranteed chance of compiled for the x86 architecture. I suppose you could say the Windows (x86) to Linux x86 software difference is like a language barrier, that can be overcome with translation tools such as WINE. However x86 versus ARM is like a species barrier.

There is plenty of proprietary software on the NITs that Nokia cannot/will not open up, so you could try and reverse engineer that if you want a challenge but GOOD LUCK with that!

Really, with Linux, having any proprietary software in the ecosystem is frowned upon by the community - simply put, we don't want to deal with that crap.

If you want to have to constantly battle for control of your device, buy something from Apple, Sony or Microsoft. If you don't want to deal with keygens, serial numbers, anti-viruses, etc. to get the full experience (without shelling out $$$) then go *nix.

And if you feel like you need your pirated software every once in awhile, there is VNC & x11 forwarding (;

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Intersting. I thought about this also but then N900 and Maemo in general is a bit different to most other phones / platforms. I see N900 similar to an "already-hacked" phone category. So any app you can find for it, you can install it. Easy. There is a lack of commercial apps for it. I do agree. But it's just the beginning. I hope N900 does well enough to kick start the support and growth of Maemo apps. Both free and commercial ones.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Some of them will even be open source, yes.

Probably not those, but there are others. My favourite games are already open source on my Linux laptop, so I hope they will be ported or similar ones made.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

I've been wondering. Do you think it will be ok to distribute re-engineered versions of those core apps on maemo.org?

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Based on the Nokia people pulling the emulators, I'm going to have to say no, they would not like that.

But I'll host anything you have.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

So your problem - after buying a $600+ phone is that you cant pirate software?

Well let me see if i have a solution for that - what you need do is get yourself a big old tub of water.

Step 1: Put your head under the water, hold it there for 5 seconds
Step 2: Bring it out of the water..

You do that 5 times but on the 5th time - don't worry about step 2.

OP: What an ***.

On a personal note is douches like this who steal my android software and then email me demanding support and get annoyed when I tell them to go **** themselves

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Are you seriously telling the guy to kill himself because he posts something you don't agree with..?

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

No - I was offering him a solution to the lack of pirating being a dealbreaker. I guarantee if he follows my instructions he will no longer care about it.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Pretty extreme method to keep from caring if you ask me. A better solution is that he could just buy an android device, not care any more and still have his life. lol.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Interesting reading perhaps :

http://www.allaboutmaemo.com/news/it...oblem_pira.php

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

The other way to look at it is that pirates are not your customers - no amount of protection is going to get ingrained freeloaders to pay for it.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

I think all we have to do is to mirror the Extras repository and call it Warez, then the "pirating dealbreaker" will be solved.

Regards,
Roger

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

I think the time of expensive apps is pretty much over.

GPS Navigation being the last stronghold (70-90 Euros). But even here we see changes. Google Navigation is already free and caused a drop in the GPS makes stock prices. It would be easy for Nokia to provide free turn-by-turn navigation since they own Navteq!

One thing the Apple app store showed, cheap software can still make you rich. Yes I know, it does not really work for the Android market right now, but I believe that to be a technical and an marketing issue with the marketplace app.

One last thought: Why do you think there won't be pirated software for the N900? Look at the N810 and the navigation add-on for Maps.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

I'm %100 sure there will be pirated software for the N900 when companies start writing applications/games for it. :p

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Based on the Nintendo cease-and-desist over emulators, I doubt any pirated apps will make it into formal repositories (or at least last there very long) so that relegates them to third-party repos where they may or may not receive sufficient attention.

But as others have said, it's Linux, it's open, theoretically we don't need no stinking cracks. So let's turn theory into reality. ;)

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Let me share my perception:
peoples in asia, or any poorer countries, doesn't mean to pirate software. they just cant afford. that's the case for expensive software, like windows or something. but if the software is affordable, there's another barrier: the payment system. who cant afford a few dollars worth of software if they can buy $600 devices? very few of them. but when they want to use their credit card, most of their cards are blacklisted. just remember when i wanted to buy books from amazon, my visa card is not accepted. paying from paypal is a workaround. but what a hassle!

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Why would your card be blacklisted? There isn't such a thing as "blacklisted" cards. Either it works, and is trusted (as in, your bank vouches for you) or it doesn't, and no matter where you'll try to use it, it will fail.[1]

There is a huge difference between trusted cards and trusted addresses. Yes, people will often be reluctant to send goods to specific countries because they think fraud might be involved, however this has nothing to do with the payment type.[1]

Again, at this point in time there are literally no applications that require any sort of payment for them. If you want GPS and such, I'm sure Maemo Mapper and those kind of applications will grow dramatically over the coming months. As texrat said, there is, at this point, not even a need to consider piracy, as there are no commercial applications available that do not have an Open Source equivalent.

[1]: Source: I work in security, and deal with banks (and implement their payment systems and payment authentication systems) on a daily basis.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

there will be very few commercial applications for this platform. cuz any commercial application will be faced with a 100 open source alternative.
this means commercial applications will need to be extremely good to stand out.
remember, this is not mainstream platform. the n900 is not a phone for the average joe

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

I thought this thread was a satire and poked my nose in here to have a good laugh.

There's no satire, but I'm still laughing. Go figure!

:P

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Reminds me of the Atari vs. Amiga discussion back in school, 20 years ago.

When somebody did buy a home computer, the decision was not based on whether Atari or Amiga is better (not that there was a big difference).

The decision was exclusively based on which computer all your friends and classmates had. Because that's where you could get the games from.

Belive me, I know what I'm talking about. You can't imagine how stupid I felt when I got an Amiga for Christmas, while all my friend had an Atari. ;)

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

to clarify my post, i also had my card NOT ACCEPTED by yahoo when i used it to buy domain name. so i used paypal. it seems like merchants are limiting where the cards come from, not banks.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

Yeah but you didn't have to deal with TOS - and you had all those lovely miggy custom chips ;)

Piracy will be piracy, no matter what platform.

Re: Lack of pirated software - dealbreaker?
 

For me though, the decision was solely based on what I could do with it, as a programmer. So I only looked at specifications. Did that, all the way back to my first computer. Oh, and the biggest decision maker of all (although not one I had wanted): The price! :) Which always forced me to not get what I really wanted, from a tech specification point of view.