Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Are maemo apps restricted to having a flat black background, or can we use gradients or designs via pngs.

Also, can maemo apps use png designs as buttons or do they have to use the default maemo style?

Basically, I don't get why all these apps are buttafaces. Everything in the apps (the body) is great, but the ui (face).

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Custom looks are possible but my personal feeling is they should be the exception and not the norm. I might be biased because I like the default theme.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

If I come across some spare time (and if I ever get my replacement N900) I'll probably make a few attempts at designing some UI themes, I'm assuming it's similar to regular GTK skinning.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

i think the whole look of some apps even default ones are very boring, most are just blocks with text in, we need nice shiny icons

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

have to agree!

I like the "the simpler, the better" style of hildon, personally I don't like applications that try to get attention by adding tons of "bling" instead of focussing on the real deal - aka content.

but that's just my to cent's I always tend to like minimalistic stuff a lot more :)

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

It can be minimalistic but not look terrible. Some of these apps are horrendous. IT doesn't need bling, just some basic clean design techniques.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

I work as a user interface designer for games for years and I really don't see your point?!

could you clarify for me if are you refering to the graphics itself that bother you, or are you talking about the basic layout and/or user interaction scheme the UI is based on.

I have to say there are some places where you can argue about the user interaction scheme in some apps (too many clicks needed to do stuff) but the actual theme itself IS clean and properly executed.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

i think the apps need to look much better, all of them are functional but very bleh...there should always be some extra effort to make it more user friendly, more appealing looks wise...instead of looking boring like most of them now. The underlying UI is awesome, but all the apps being created are just ordinary.

This is especially true if it is expected to compete with other platforms which are very innovative with their applications, its just more convenient and will attract more people + more fun to use which is the whole point.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

example 1:

http://danielwould.wordpress.com/witter/

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

still don't really get your point.

most of those apps are done by non industry professionals you have nearly no experience with user interface guidelines and/or proper execution of those guidelines.

instead of make a "why are you so ugly thread" you should contact the respective developer and offer your help in a friendly manner.

just saying "they look ugly wft?!" won't help any of us

don't get me wrong, there are a lot of third party apps that have the issues you have mentioned (I wasn't sure in the beginning if you're just talking baout the third party stuff available here at maemo.org or all apps including the native apps) but the way you are pointing fingers at people just won't help any of those developers here at maemo.

so if you really want to help, talk to them, offer your help, but don't go pointing fingers out in the public without really offering an insight why you think there is room for improvement

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

lol, mr.lecturer, I'm trying to make a point that all these apps need help, and I have been contacting and helping out.

I'm trying to see if maybe just my opinion is skewed or if others also believe that most of these apps coming out are kind of ugly. I've tried to get more interest in design going. But I feel like I'm one of a minortiy who think good design is important.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

At no point did I say "they look ugly wtf". :)

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

no you are not the only one concerned about the design of various apps

but then again you should just think about how to best start a discussion without pissing people off... just give it a thought - that could be a lot more productive... ;)

I'd be pissed as a programmer to be told that what I am doing in my spare times looks like a pile of **** (which you essentially did)

just my 2 cents ;)

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

The problem here is that there are two ways to create a user interface: low and high level (sorry, if obvious).
Both have cons and prons (nice look&feel versus familiar&consistent UI).
On Maemo, there is a strong emphasis on high level UI, using either GTK or QT. So developers are in fact not encourage to use custom button shapes, sliders or other fancy, self made things. A similar situation is with iPhone, where we have guidelines about distance of a button from the screen edge, so all the applications give the same experience.

A totally different thing is the right UI design from the elements. We can use standard buttons and text fields, but smartly. Good spacing, well organized screen, interlines etc. Just not to confuse ergonomics issues with general look thing.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

I don't know how it is with all of the apps but some its not a matter of needing bling with gradient backgrounds and non-stock icons everywhere but a polished look.

Does the plain look make Dialcentral / ejpi / Gonvert / quicknote ugly?

witter I can understand. A good mix of stock and non-stock icons plus something like chat buubles for each tweet (with possibly distinguishing colored backgrounds like some of those mac chat apps) would help in conveying information.

EDIT: Fixing my show of ignorance of twitter

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Your contributions are appreciated Joshua but I have to agree with rapante on this one.

It's helpful to be specific on this subject. I started off thinking you were talking about apps packaged with the device. Now that you've provided a third-party app as an example of your complaint, I also believe it's best to approach this case-by-case and point the developers toward good UI design practices.

And no reason for any ruffled feathers here, guys. Let's keep it objective.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

no you didn't Mr. nitpicky, that was my attempt to explain to you how some of the developers might think about the way you started this discussion

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

My apologies then, I guess I was just frustrated. I've tried to help out, but it rarely goes anywhere. I'm not the best designer by any means, but there has to be some way to "force" 3rd party app developers to make their apps prettier.

My two cents.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Mr. Lecturer,

:)

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

A means of strongly encouraging good UI practice would be nice.

So... you have a problem here. Why not post in Brainstorm and see if solutions come up?

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

forcing them will most likely get them to cling to there designs even more. just explain them the reason why you think certain things should be done certain ways

e.g like epage mentioned those "bubbles" for each tweet, you can easily explain why this little addition to the UI is improving the whole app.

1. better readability
2. better spacing, so you will instantly be able to recognise which text belongs to which tweet and which user etc.

so if you just explain it to them, I am 100% sure they'll think about it and try their best to integrate the improvements you have to offer.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Already done, but I'm going to start a brainstorm, maybe we need to build a resource of stock images and items for developers, and a place where they can request additional elements...

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Design section would be great for requesting additional elements and wiki page would work for your stock images.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

But how do we strongly encourage developers?

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Two thoughts on this one. First is that since most of these are open sourced projects you could fork and enhance the UI. Second is somewhat related in that you can "vote with your dollars" where in this case your dollars are the programs you install.

Combine the two and you'll find that in the long run survival of the fittest will eventually win out.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Something to consider: pure coders tend to be more receptive to guidance in their craft than interface designers. No decent coder wants his/her app running with bugs. They make it look bad.

Artists tend to think that their work is the best approach, so they're not as receptive to constructive criticism. They don't think in terms of "bugs". How can their art be flawed? ;)

A coder also performing as artist/designer without the proper experience/skillset there is inclined to first take a utilitarian approach and fail when trying to incorporate clever graphic elements. They will have to be sold on the idea of someone else coming in to revamp that part of the user experience.

The best sales approach IMO is to first convince the developer he/she can better maintain the code logic by divorcing it from the UI. The next step is to propose yourself as the person to enhance and maintain the UI as a team member.

Not every coder will be receptive, but those with the users in mind will. We have examples in Dialcentral, eCoach, and others.

Developers who refuse to consider a "slick" UI will watch as competitors bury them in downloads.

EDIT: like Jsuggs said above.

disclaimer: I am a coder and artist. :p

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

That's where brainstorming comes in. ;)

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

As pointed out by others earlier in the thread, Maemo, being a finger-oriented mobile OS, has some very specific UI guidelines for developers to follow to help maintain "consistent experiences". In my mind it really boils down to what you're doing though: Are you building an app to add/extend functionality of the device (i.e. a simple note taking app, a map application, etc), or are you building an app/program to be used/run on the device (i.e. a game, a photo editor, whatever)?

If the former, then you should definitely follow the visual requirements of the UI guidelines and do your very best to leave the "appearance" up to the hildon theme/ OS control in general. That way when a user changes themes, your intergrated app changes accordingly.

On the other hand, if you're building an "application" that conceptually stands out as a program rather than just some "feature compliment/way of doing cool stuff that you don't expect", then the interface should be more under your control than that of the underlying OS/theme. That's not to say you should ignore the UI guidelines about button placements, size of text/etc... those are all there to help ensure a pleasant experience on a mobile device... but in this type of situation things like PNG backgrounds, different looking buttons/etc are acceptable and almost expected, AS LONG as they're done well and the interface is INTUITIVE. Any time you deviate from the "Standard view" that users are used to, you have to put extra effort into making sure that they won't need an instruction manual in order to figure out how to use your design/UI elements.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Please don't do that. To your avarage linux user, nothing is more annoying then an app which doesn't adhere to standards. If you want a different look, you use another GTK theme - job done. I'm not 100% sure how it's on maemo, but I strongly suspect that there will be other themes. Please do not encourage the use of custom visuals, custom layouts or anything custom. It should be the choice of the user if he or she wants to use another style. Apart from that, both GTK and Qt are pretty flexible when it comes to different layouts.
Thanks.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Non-standard UI elements == Unthemable apps

If you're using custom graphics exclusively (e.g. Canola) that's one thing, but if you mix standard GTK widgets with custom backgrounds/buttons, it will be ugly (or unusable) in other themes.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Almost all apps on the iphone are user friendly, and look good. Why is this community so against having apps look good :S?

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Let's adhere to standards, but lets make those standards good.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

We're not.

Sounds good, but using custom PNG buttons and backgrounds is not adhering to standards.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Okay, cool.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

It's open source, you don't have to force them, you can just FORK them!
Maybe the developer likes your patch and will incorporate it, maybe he likes it the way it is. You can't just go around and say stuff like that.

The apps that are now developed are in the beginning stages, where the developers focus more on functionality than usability.

The app that you gave as an example is nearly a week in development!
WTF dude?!

And most of the iphone apps look gimmicky.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

FORK them?

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

This is getting out of hand. I wanted to know if Apps could look better, or if they were restricted, and I wanted to know if we can add custom elements to make them look better.

That's all, I'm sorry if offended you. I didn't know custom was such a bad word around here. I feel like that Maemo-Freak guy now.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

That'll be horrible! Most of the time I see such "custom" designs, my eyes start to bleed! :mad:

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Custom doesn't have to be ugly, I mean well built and cleanly designed, not random layouts and random colours. I give up though. Forget I mentioned that I wanted apps to look nicer at all.

Re: Most maemo apps are buttafaces
 

Forking is how OSS works, it's not a bad thing, it's one of the best freedoms that you have with it.

You've seen Canola, eCoach, AlmostTI... Icons, backgrounds, everything is customizable, and I'm sure that you know that.

You don't need custom design to make it "nicer". It's the UX that's important, and wondering every time I open a new app where the buttons are, and what's part of the background, isn't helping.

In some apps it makes sense, in most it doesn't. Most of the apps just need a better UI layout to make them "nicer".