Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

I have a case number pending with Dell and one of their customer care specialist is handling my case. I have proved to them that several orders that were placed after mine have already been shipped. One order number was placed more than 20 days after mine and has been shipped. Since the last time I spoke with Dell, I have been collecting more order numbers from others that placed their orders after mine and have already received them, and that were kind enough to share them with me.

I am done waiting quietly! I am writing an email to Dell tomorrow telling the specialist handling my case that if by Wednesday I have not heard of a firm delivery date of sometime before the end of the year, for all of us that ordered on November 5th, I am going to start processing and organizing a massive complaint to the Better Business Bureau.

To do so, I will use one of my very popular technology blogs to make the situation very public and to gather and organize people who have been likewise victimized.

http://www.themaemo.com/

or (depending if the folks at themaemo.com approve or not)

http://temporaryland.wordpress.com/

(I am sure other fellow bloggers, like Engadget and Gizmodo, will help us run the story as well.)

I will be gathering names and order numbers to include in the complaint to the BBB. (People who have ordered through vendors other than Dell will be welcome to join the complaint.)

If you are interested in joining the joint complaint, you can start sending me your emails with the following information:

Name - Order Number - Date Ordered

Send me your emails to rmcorrespond@google'smailservice.com
(substitute google'smailservice for gmail, trying to thwart the spammers ;))

The information will be shared with the Better Business Bureau (to prove the merit of our complaint) and with no one else.

Who is in?

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Does this information (Name, order) become public information once it goes to BBB? I think with just the order number and Name, someone else could cancel the order?

I'm in once you confirm how our information will be distributed (e.g only to Dell to show how many of us are pissed)

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

No, the information will be given to the BBB (no names or order numbers will be shared with any one else). Maybe we will share it with Dell, maybe not. In any case, I am only giving them till Wednesday to avert this.

Send me you emails. Right now I have to go to bed. Talk to you tomorrow.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

I will have to be out most of the day today. I will be back in the afternoon to answer any questions you might have. I will also write my email to Dell then. In the mean time, do send in your emails.

People that have already complained to the BBB are welcome to join on this joint complaint too. People who canceled their Dell order due to the delays can still join the complaint. The complaint will be worded to include all complaints received, even those not from Dell. But, I do think they should all be from US orders.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

I just sent my info.
Thanks for organizing this complaint.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Thanks to those of you that have sent your emails. Some of you are wondering if we are going to seek some form of monetary damages. Personally, I am not interested in that. I just want to voice my complaint and let it be that. Whatever the BBB does beyond that is up to them.

If some of you think that the mismanagement of your order has resulted in monetary loss and want some form of restitution then you will have go at it on your own. However, if you do start something let us know and we can discuss whether or not we can be of any help to you. But, as I said above, I will personally not disclose any of the names and order numbers that we have to any one other than the BBB.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Here is the email I am planing to send to Dell. Please continue to send me your emails with your names, order numbers, and order dates. If you have any questions let me know. (Real names and numbers have been removed below.)

_________________________________________


Dear Ms [**********],

As you are well aware of from handling my service request ( # 8888888888), I placed an order (# 99999999) for a Nokia N900 on November 5, 2009. The initial estimated date of arrival given was December 10, 2009. As the weeks passed, I began to received reports of colleagues, consultants, and friends receiving the same item I had ordered, in spite of the fact that they had ordered the item at a latter date than me. Some of them were even willing to share their order numbers with me so that I could verify it. At the time I figured they were probably being delivered to everyone and some just happened to get theirs a day or two before me. However, days became weeks. When I realized that I was not going to receive my device by the date that had been given me, I decided to contact Dell to see what was the problem. I was told that the item was simply out of stock. However, when I provided proof that other people had been receiving their devices, even some that order much latter than me, I was told that no explanation could be given to me, but that they would investigate and contact me with an explanation.

Unfortunately, instead of that, a few days latter my order page was updated with a new expected delivery date of January 20, 2010. When I saw that, I decided to contact Dell again. I explained my situation again and politely expressed my frustration. I was told that it was not Dell's fault bu that it was Nokia that was for some unknown reason not fulfilling the orders in the order that they were placed. I did not know what to believe. I was told that there was no way that I could purse the matter directly with Nokia, and was told, again, that the matter would be investigated and that I would be contacted.

In the mean time, I have been contacting other customers that are in the same or similar situation that I am. They have been willing to share their names, order numbers, and order dates with me. We are now getting organized in order to submit a formal complaint with the Better Business Bureau. I also happen to be a writer in two very popular technology blogs (with a readership in the thousands), and I am planning to also make this matter public and to invite more people who are in the same or similar situation to join our complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

I am telling you this because I want to give you and Dell one last opportunity to resolve this situation and avert this trouble. So, I am giving you until Wednesday, December 16, to give me a firm date for delivery of our devices. If by that time we do not have a firm delivery date or if the date given is after December, 2009, we will proceed with our very public outcry and our formal complaint to the Business Bureau.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

[rm42]

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Recommend changes to the following:

- the first sentence should spell out your intention to file a formal complaint on behalf of several customers. Did should grab their intention as the content is kinda long
-... if the date given is after ???? December, 2009

From the BBB point of view, you have to give a reason why you consider this Decemeber date to be important. I would mention:
- several other retailers having it in stock. amazon, buy.com with date+screenshot
- nokiausa themselves seem to have it out of stock, so Mmmmmm
- menion the loss of the $50 rebate as another reason to receive it by X date

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Thank you. I like your suggestions. I am not planning on taking advantage of any coupons, but I am going on a trip on December 30. So, that is why I am putting that as my latest target date. However, if some of you have an important date to target please let me know and we can include that in the complaint.

Here is the revised email so far:

_____________________________________

Dear Ms [********],

As you are well aware of, from handling my service request ( # 888888888), I placed an order (# 999999999) for a Nokia N900 on November 5, 2009. Due to what I perceive to be a mishandling of my order I want you to know that I am planning to file a formal complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Many others in the same or similar situation are joining me on this complaint. Further more, since I also happen to be a writer in two very popular technology blogs (with a readership in the thousands), I am planning to make this matter public and to invite others who may be in the same or similar situation to join our complaint

The initial estimated date of arrival given was December 10, 2009. As the weeks passed, I began to received reports of colleagues, consultants, and friends receiving the same item I had ordered, in spite of the fact that they had ordered the item at a latter date than me. Some of them were even willing to share their order numbers with me so that I could verify it. At the time I figured they were probably being delivered to everyone and some just happened to get theirs a day or two before me. However, days became weeks. When I realized that I was not going to receive my device by the date that had been given me, I decided to contact Dell to see what was the problem. I was told that the item was simply out of stock. However, when I provided proof that other people had been receiving their devices, even some that order much latter than me, I was told that no explanation could be given to me, but that they would investigate and contact me with an explanation.

Unfortunately, instead of that, a few days latter my order page was updated with a new expected delivery date of January 20, 2010. When I saw that, I decided to contact Dell again. I explained my situation again and politely expressed my frustration. I was told that it was not Dell's fault but that it was Nokia that was for some unknown reason not fulfilling the orders in the order that they were placed. I did not know what to believe. I was told that there was no way that I could purse the matter directly with Nokia, and was told, again, that the matter would be investigated and that I would be contacted.

In the mean time, I have been contacting other customers that are in the same or similar situation that I am. They have been willing to share their names, order numbers, and order dates with me. All these names order numbers and order dates will be provided to the Better Business Bureau for their consideration.

I am telling you this because I want to give you and Dell one last opportunity to resolve this situation and avert this trouble. So, I am giving you until Wednesday, December 16, to give me a firm date for delivery of our devices. If by that time we do not have a firm delivery date or if the date given is after December 29, 2009, we will proceed with our very public outcry and our formal complaint to the Better Business Bureau.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

[rm42]

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

The email to Dell has been sent. Good night every one.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

rm42,

Patience is a virtue! Things like this make my skin crawl. You have multiple options but instead you have taken it upon yourself to open a complaint against on of the biggest computer manufacturers in America. Unfortunately I doubt your complaint will hold much water if any at all.

Why not cancel your order, order it from somewhere else and get it tomorrow. I ordered mine from newegg last week and had it the next day. I am not sure what is stopping you from doing this other than the desire to order from Dell.

So instead of wasting your time and starting a war with Dell that will more than likely lead to nothing, why not be proactive, cancel your order and order it somewhere else.

Didn't mean to be redundant but sometimes people have to hear it twice for it to sink in.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

I have to disagree with you AnimalMind. I applaud RM42's efforts and have sent you my info. Please add it to the others and keep us posted of any replies.

When a business does something like this, making a "stink" is the only real recourse we have. And if our voices are loud enough, I can assure you the higher ups at Dell will hear about it and do something to resolve this problem.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Argoldst,

Why wait for them to realize there error and just not hit them where it hurts, there pocket book. We are a dell reseller and I can tell you there shipping times suck! We have waited months for a printer and a printer tray but you know what, we still order from them cause they make suppior products in the computing world.

Now when it comes to a phone they are reselling you have tons of options! Cancel your order with Dell and look elsewhere. This will hurt them much more then filing a BBB complaint. Does anyone even care about BBB anymore?

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

@AnimalMind
1) I "paid" around $100 less at Dell than anything currently offered. I don't want to pay more just to get it sooner.
2) Dell should honor the order in which the orders were placed.
3) A company shouldn't offer a low price on an item, then instead of just canceling the order for a price "misprint", ship to others that ordered later (for a higher price), and hope the low price people cancel.

I'll forward my info later. I would suggest limiting the initial BBB complaint to include only Dell customers who ordered before the first shipment and still have not had their order shipped. Also people who ordered before the latest order date that we have confirmed to ship. If an order from 12/1 shipped anybody that ordered 12/2 or later should not be included yet. It will only serve to confuse the issue with "legitimate" supply problems.

The complaint is against Dell. Adding info on other vendors might be useful if the complaint were against Nokia, but otherwise will just cloud the issue.


*EDIT* That extra $100 hurts me more than the loss of a sale would hurt Dell.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

In general its a wise axiom that consumers have the power by spending their dollars, but you clearly have not paid attention to the relevant threads and now you're running your mouth about how it makes your skin crawl? You make my skin crawl. Let me repeat so it sinks in, You make my skin crawl. You received your phone, now you presume to give us bad advice with a snooty attitude. What exactly do you mean "Patience is a virtue"? I ordered 11/5/2009 and my order is now delayed to 1/20/2010. Meanwhile Dell has shipped to people who ordered 11/25/2009 so they received a few days later. They have terrible customer service, they are aware of the error and have not made any effort to keep any of us informed. Now you want me to cancel my order. Canceling my order is not holding them accountable, Dell would prefer if those who ordered 11/5/2009 canceled our orders because the price was $442. So next time before you run your mouth you should think first.

Now get out of our thread.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

To be honest, I think the issue is more with Nokia than with Dell. I believe Dell relies solely on Nokia to fullfill the orders and its Nokia that is giving the BS dates and shipping stuff out in random order.

The only power Dell has to to threaten to stop selling Nokia phones as its hurting Dell's reputation. This is what Dell should do to make Nokia ship out the phones.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

You may be right, however our orders are through Dell and Dell has been aware of the issue and not pursued our interests. Dell has the power to get in contact with Nokia, find out what has happened and pressure them into taking action, so I'm taking it up with Dell.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

This isn't true. Dell made the sales. While they have to pass those sales out to the shipper (Nokia direct or someone else), they don't go around telling the shipper what they paid. They don't say "hey Nokia, we sold this phone for 442 and this phone for 550".

The ONLY real answer here is that dell wants to earn the money on the higher profit margin phones they sold then the lower ones sold on 11/5.

This is TOTALLY unethical and needs to be confronted head on. Don't blame Nokia or anyone else. That is purely Dell trying to divert the heat they created. Dell made the sale, dell is responsible.

And if there was such an issue of really being back ordered, all they have to do is stop accepting new preorders (the ones taken after 11/5) until all back orders were filled. Problem solved.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Really not going to happen, yes they screwed your order up but they have a duty to the customers that ordered after you aswell.
Unfortunatly you never recieved yours and they did **** happens all you will gain from this is further delay and maybe eventually get your order

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Honestly why would you even bother with posting that? Lots of us that ordered on 11/5 haven't received ours. The whole point of a preorder is so that we get ours BEFORE those who order later. Otherwise it should be called a randomorder or in this case a postorder.

If nothing else, publicizing our experiences with Dell will detract some customers from them, fully deserved. That in itself makes us feel a little better so its fully worth it. At best we might get our phone faster and some compensation for their mess up.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Bottom line, the delivery should be FIFO (first in first out). Period. Dell needs to be made aware how serious the issue is.

As to other comments, this is a Dell issue, not Nokia. Nokia is not fulfilling these orders on a device-by-device basis I can assure you (whereas Dell is). If so, they would cost twice as much.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Zartan,

Wow thanks for the personal attack when you where not even involved in my comment, yes a personal comment to the person filing the complaint. I simply stated there are options out there other than Dell.

If he/she is tired of waiting, cancel the order (this hurts Dell more than a BBB complaint) and order it elsewhere.

I am sorry I make you skin crawl Zartan, I loved you in G. I. Joe!

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

That may or may not be true, but we have no way of following up the issue with Nokia. We can only address Dell. So, if it really is the case that Nokia is not honoring our order dates, we need Dell to fight for us. But, so far, they don't seem interested in doing so. So, here we are giving them a good reason to do so.

That is Dell's problem with Nokia. In the mean time, they need to honor our purchases and do their best to have us satisfied. If that means that they have to go out into the street and walk into a Nokia store to purchase some devices for us and have them shipped, so be it.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

You're welcome. Instead of getting excited and throwing a hissy fit defensive response up, you should read the rest of my post and understand the situation. Canceling our orders is not going to hurt Dell.

On a side note, I take it as personal when you make a 'personal comment' to the person who is proactively defending my interests. Especially when your opinions are 'simple' as you admitted, and snide, not well thought out.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Some of you have asked whether it is a good idea to send Dell a similar letter to the one I sent in order to put more pressure on Dell. I fear that if we do that they may conclude that we are all acting independently instead of as an organized group. Lets give them till Wednesday to see if they honor my request. If by then we have no positive response I will post an article on my blog explaining the issue and asking others to join. I don't think the complaint to the BBB should be made immediately. I want to make sure to gather as many affected people as possible into the complaint. We can set a date for when the complain is to be filed. Any suggestions?

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

As you know I already filed my complaint with the BBB. In addition we have the option of filing complaints with consumer advocacy groups in our individual State Attorney's Offices and through the FTC. While I agree its good in some ways to file complaints uniformly, its also good to have multiple BBB dispute specialists pursuing Dell and multiple organizations. Maybe they will think twice next time.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Ordered: 11-26
Estimated Arrival: Feb 09, 2010

I called in today to cancel my order, This is the 3rd Time I called

First rep, the guy said my order was bumped up to dec 21
2nd, a rep (anita), told me that never happened

Finally I cancelled
today I talked to the rep. He said the rebate shouldn't be affected, because I placed the order on a eligible date. in nov and december. But i convinced him that i did in deed need actual n900 unit to mail the postmarked rebate by early january.

He transferred me to Cancellation, and The rep I talked to there said she was aware of this problem, and and there's nothing they could do. I asked them, when did the unit sell out? said said a couple days ago, and that made me real mad

I informed them that a major complaint of mine is not that it was sold out or of the rebate, but because of the way they prioritized the orders. That there were some people who orderd in nov, who've still haven't received it, while people ordering in december are receiving it right away. Said she wasn't aware that anyone at all was receiving them in December, saying hasn't heard of any calls from people with december estimated dates

I told her people wouldn't cancel their order if it was estimated to be in december.

she offered me a 25 dollar discount, but with the original rebate being 50 dollars and waiting 2 more months.... I'm not going to pay 25 dollars MORE as an OFFER to keep my order. She was quite a nice rep, and I told her I'm not blaming her for any of this, but I just wanted to get this informed with dell's employees

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Yes this kind of crap is my biggest complaint. The exact same crap.

I called last Monday and spoke to an order resolution representative, he ASSURED me he would stay on top of it updating me and such. He was going to submit a request my order be expedited. Fine. He called on Wednesday and left a message that he had submitted my request. No idea why it took him 2 days to submit it. Okay I waited till Friday and no information so I called him - he had received response Thursday but did not inform me, the request was turned down because the part is out of stock. I explained to him the situation that the order has been in high demand and they haven't prioritized their orders at all. His only idea was to submit the request a second time (year right). He assured me he would call me Monday. Today I tried calling him, left a polite message, no response. I called customer support, they told me a supervisor would call in 5 or 10 minutes. No call. I called in again. Now they are busy and a supervisor will call me in 1 to 2 hours.

They are completely incompetent or liars. Or both.

Now I'm gonna force them to put a supervisor on the line and then I'm going to get the supervisor's information and hold them accountable. If they don't take care of the situation I will go ahead and include their name on the BBB complaint since no one ever gives me their name. Apparently these people can only respond to threats.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Next time you call, make them aware of the joint complain to the Better Buisness Bureau you are a part of. If they don't know what you are talking about, you can tell them that it is explained in Service Request number 808475513.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

I got an email from DEll last night.
_________________________________________

Sir,

All efforts has been made to have the item shipped out but due to highly constrained backlog and a very limited inventory into the distribution centers the distribution centers will ship to the customers within their respective regions only.

As much as we wanted to ship the item out soon but we really cannot guarantee you since it will depend on the availability of the item. Since you are in a hurry to get this item, the only option here is to cancel order and you can just buy one from a local store. Thank you.


Regards,

[***********]
Dell Inc. | Americas Customer Care
Work Days: Mon - Thurs
Work Hours: 08:00a.m.-7:00p.m.CST

_________________________________

Here is my response:

Dear Ms *********,

Thank you for your response. I do not want to cancel my order. You see, the issue is not that I am in a hurry to get the phone. What is upsetting is the fact so many people who ordered much latter than me got their phone. Look at this two orders for example:

OrderNumber OrderDate Status
999999999 11/19/2009 Shipped
999999999 11/25/2009 Shipped

I will wait as long as I have to wait, but I am not happy about the situation. There is obviously something very wrong about the way the orders are being processed. My desire is for this situation to be rectified so that in the future other customers do not have to deal with this sort of issues. I thank you for continuing to try to resolve this situation and to rectify what caused it in the first place.

Sincerely,

[rm42]

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

rm42,

Not to start anything new with Zartan, but we see this all the time with Dell. We typically order 2 to 2.5 mil in equipment a year from them for our clients and it never fails that when we need something fast, and even pay for next day shipping, it takes a month to get. To make matters worse if we order the same desktop setup a week later we usually get that one faster then the one we previously ordered.

Something changed, for the worse, within Dell after they closed all of their manufacturing plants in the US.

I hope they compensate you for their oversight, but I think it is becoming more apparent to the masses that Dell has some major shipping and customer satisfaction issues to work on.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

@rm42 I would have added that your "local store" is still a several hour? round trip. Mine would be about 12 hrs round trip to get it at a "local store".

My wife ordered mine as a Christmas gift. I will pm you the details to be added to the BBB complaint.

Her rep mentioned the delay according to Nokia it is a "manufacturing" delay. Perhaps this means that some of the issues (mic, reboots, usb plug, etc) are being addressed?

Additionally, in this day and age, while I understand the preference to ship regionally:

1) I think that we have enough info that even people within the same regions experienced the shipping discrepancies we are complaining about.

2) From my location in Ohio, I can ship to any part of the country via UPS ground in 5 days max (ex AK, HI), so 5-7 day shipping is still ground service from any region to any other region.

So regional shipping isn't really an excuse.

*EDIT* rm42 please post whatever info you have regarding the BBB complaint once you file it. I plan to file one individually and reference the mass complaint.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

As a Dell shareholder, I am very disappointed in how they are handling this matter. They're treading water in the PC business. Bad PR on the retail business is not good for future earnings.

Good luck getting this sorted out. If any of you are shareholders, I suggest you might try to go through investor relations to get a proper solution.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

rm42, I commend you for your mature and logical approach to the problem, and hope it is resolved to your satisfaction.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Thanks for the support. The worst part is that I feel like I am partly to blame. If I hadn't written those articles about how awesome the N900 was going to be, there probably wouldn't have been so much demand and I would have had no trouble getting it.

This one alone has had almost 20,000 hits:

http://www.themaemo.com/and-now-for-...iller-feature/

Oh the irony, the irony!

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Lol i read that post, didn't know you were a celebrity

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

hi rm42,

i have my n900 but i feel for you. i had preordered from amazon since early oct, within first week. i too, like many others hit the refresh button countless times for delivery dates/estimates. when i heard that people started receiving the devices in november i was eagerly anticipating my device. days passed with no word until i got fed up and cancelled my preorder. lucky for me i live in chicago so i was able to stop by the nokia store and get my device. point is that nokia and there associates bundled this very bad. not sure how i can help but let me know.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

What are we looking for as a successful resolution to the complaint?

Obviously, we'd like our N900's shipped ASAP. However, if Dell doesn't really get stock to ship until mid January, what then? How can Dell satisfy us to resolve our complaint?

1) Free Overnight shipping?
2) Additional discount to make up for the rebate we will likely miss out on (ie $50 discount)?
I'd be against a credit/coupon for later purchases. Perhaps a free 1 warranty?

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Thank you for e-mailing the Nokia Care Contact Center.

With regard to your inquiry about the delivery date, basically it is between you and Dell, since you placed the pre order with Dell and not with Nokia. We deliver the units to Dell and Dell delivers it in return to their customers. We will have no business delivering it to their customers, since it is not our customers. We will not know who placed the pre order with them, that is basically internal process with Dell. We suggest that you contact Dell, however it is evident that they point it to Nokia to avoid blame from customers, they might have preferred customers.

If you have any additional questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us again. To ensure proper handling of your case, kindly continue using the current subject line.

Thank you very much for your email. Have a great day!


Kind regards,
Rosalie L.
E-mail Specialist
Nokia Inc.

Re: Formal Complaint to the BBB about N900 shipments
 

Subject: Re: Other

If thats the case, perhaps Nokia should follow up with Dell then? They are
selling a Nokia device and blaming Nokia for the distribution errors that
are occuring. I ordered 11/5/2009 and I still haven't received my phone and
yet they are now taking new orders for phones again. I would think if Nokia
is a reputable company its in their best interest to investigate complaints
such as this with Dell.