Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

Ever since the N900 came about the "Active Topics" bar has been taken by shallow and uninteresting subjects. This forum is dying to me.

Maemo 5 and its applications being incompatible with previous devices was one of the most terrible of the "non-free" stuff Nokia has been doing. Linux itself is a great example of care for compatibility. I have just installed the latest kernel in my old Pentium III at home, and also the latest versions of my window manager and browser, and it feels great. I have the impression the opposite is happening with the NITs, and It's a pity.

As a N800 user, I feel like I don't belong to this website anymore. I have been coming here only looking for old references about things people have done previously with the tablets, but I can't conceive starting conversations about new things we could do in Diablo...

I can understand many developers will just move forward, but will the development for N810 and previous devices really just die? And if a little community of "old timers" remains, where will they live? Do we have a space here at maemo.org, or will we have to create a new forum where we can go without having to hear about lame discussions regarding N900's incompatible software or worse: the iPhone?

I wish I could log in here and not see a single thread regarding problems in the N900 that have nothing to do with me. I just want to talk with people that run the same software as I do. I want people that can help me, and I want to be able to help people out. Right now I log in here and feel like I was entering the forum of some other device I don't own (e.g. iPhone, Android, whatever).

I'm not saying people shouldn't talk about the N900. I understand _that_ is what is happening in the Maemo world right now. Go on, take the forum. But I own a N800, and I want to be part of the community of N800 owners. Where are they?

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

In case you missed it (ouch! Sorry!) you may want to contribute at the links mentioned here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37261

Though I'm here for the N900 stuff, I entirely sympathise with your point of view. Let's hope at least some form of new posts filtering can be done.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

I can sympathise too, I'm also an N800 owner and it's continuing to be an extremely useful device for me. I'm even on OS2007 (I don't like OS2008), so it's even less to find here now. I had to get myself the N900 to be able to stay here.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

Is Mer not on the radar for you?

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

I personally got interested in Maemo by getting an N800 through a developer device discount. I like my N800, as well as my new N900. I don't, however, have any complaint that Nokia hasn't made Maemo 5 work on the N800; among other things, how do you expect to get a UI heavily dependent on graphical effects and compositing to work on a device with hardly any graphics acceleration for those things?

As Texrat said, take a look at Mer; it tries to create an OS based on parts of Maemo 5 that will work on many devices, including the N800 and N810. Furthermore, Mer has some community building up around it.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

Even though my N800 stays quite charged, its the lack of quality applications for my specific usage needs that drew/draws me away from it from time to time. The N800 (and N810) while solid devices, are now in the position of being the *last* model, not the *main* one - and the attention therefore moves accordingly.

Mer is a better option for restoring faith/opinion in the N800/N810 (Diablo) side of things because of its close devleopment proximity to Maemo 5. But that's pretty much it. Many developers here have had to make a choice about what they will support (Gtk and Qt, or just Qt); with the momentum behind going mainly or just Qt, its just that developing for Diablo doesn't meet a developer itch anymore.

And isn't this one of the reasons why this site has thrived, developers got really itchy with a device tailor made for them to play?

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

Flash often gets ignored as a cross-platform solution, and often derided due to its ad legacy, BUT-- it remains a viable option that I wish was explored further.

Same goes for other web technologies.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

Flash would have been nice for the N800/N810 if it would have stayed light. Its too heavy to do more than just lifting the shell on these devices.

Well written AJAX and an updated microB browser capable of doing HTML5 and CSS3 though, and you've got a nice extension to the platform that does give a lot of future viability (paging Tear and Fennec).

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

You're dead, but you just don't know it yet. Ever seen the 6th sense?

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

It isn't on the radar for me either. And I have my radar (EDIT: sodar?) turned up full power! Ping! Ping! Silence. :(

(Clarification: I really want Mer to be on the radar!)

EDIT: What N900 software is incompatible with the older devices? Mostly it seems that the N900 has modified versions of old tablet software and the really new stuff wouldn't work on the old devices because it uses hardware that the old devices don't have, like OpenGL and accelerometers...

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

I see it at the edges of mine. :p

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

You must have some fancy new prototype radar. You guys with your fancy newfangled hardware.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

I did miss, thank you.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

Shoot, you're the one pinging with radar, qole. That's what, sodar?

You are on the right track though. It's Mer. Sonar is the appropriate search technology.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

Yes, it is in my radar and in my N800, actually. I bought me a new 4GB SD card a few weeks ago hoping, among other things, to install Mer and see if I could use it or help developing. Unfortunately, I couldn't do either. I am a programmer myself, I do like looking at the digital guts of my tools, but right now I don't think Mer is already on a stage I can contribute to, partly because I won't have the time to work and learn, and partly due to lack of patience and willingness.

I hope with a few more months it will become usable enough for me and other people who are not yet feeling comfortable enough with using it... And until then I'll be playing with Diablo.

The reason I started this thread is because I am back at using Canola. I just love that program!... But it looks like development has stalled. I want to help improving it, but I'm not sure where to start. Where are the other Canola users and developers? Where is the community?

I just changed the python script to fetch album covers from coverhunt.com, but I'm not sure where I should submit the patch to. I am also working on a python script to tag mp3 files with data from tracktype.org. I want to share this work, and I want people to help, but I'm not sure what to do. It feels easier to just throw everything in some forum or blog post, or into a web page.

In ohter words: I'm feeling more like I'm hacking alone than like I'm contributing to other NIT users. I am probably just looking at the wrong places. I would be more than happy if you help me, guiding me to my herd, and maybe other users/developers feeling like I am can see this thread and be helped too.

Replies so far were helpful indeed, thanks to all. :]

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

I know Maemo5's crazy effects wouldn't be possible on the N800 relatively modest hardware. But it is not so modest, and it can be improved in many ways that are not related to just increasing the processor power.

Don't get me wrong: I like Mer, I hope to start using it soon. The thing is: I don't want to be in the "Mer community". I don't want to see a separate "Maemo 5 community", "Mer community" and a "people-who-don't-know-they-are-dead community". It just adds up to the schism with the "770 community" that I don't even know much because I jumped in the boat in 2008. So much for a "Maemo" community, huh? :mad:

Will I really be able to use programs developed for Maemo 5 with Mer, or will it be always "a dirty little crazy hack" to use Maemo 5 programs? Will I always be having to check out if some bug in a program is a Mer problem before reporting as being a proper program bug? I am asking because I am afraid it might happen, that's my life experience... If it is being difficult to implement the Mer idea, I can only imagine it will be difficult to maintain. :(

What about Maemo 6? Will it create another community? The N900 people will be isolated? Will Mer be able to come again to the rescue of both the N900 users and N810?... I certainly hope so, I would like to help. But I don't feel much like it when I come to the forum and it's all about complaining about N900 delays. I'm on the other side, of the "old-time and left-in-the-cold" users, and I am calling my colleagues to unite and become stronger!... :)

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

I hate flash, but if there is one thing I love about the NITs is the ability to use python. I think it really needs to be better explored... :/

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

There will always be those that attach some level of esteem to a platform that's no longer at the top of the heap. If efforts are made to bridge the gaps in platforms, then some won't feel left out at all. Given that Maemo 5 hasn't been on a purchasable and shipped device for but a few months at most, its only logical to feel that its getting *too much* attention.

If there are those with Maemo 2008 devices that have issues and solutions relating to how they are using or would like to use their devices, yes, they should continue to galvinze within that genre. But hoping that such a genre doesn't get drowned out by the latest-greatest isn't a correct perspective.

And yes, the same can happen with the move to Maemo 6. And it probably will depending on how many egos are stepped on by decsions made by those with a slightly different perspective and motivation than those who may be here.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

Nwerneck, you are not alone. There are thousands of us N800 owners who are still active members of this forum. When my N800 went dead a couple of months ago, I could have replaced it with any device available. I chose another N800 over the N900. I have a suggestion for you. Subscribe to your favorite threads so that you will get an email notice of any new postings. I subscribe to "FlipClock", "Vagalume", "Theremin", "Seqretary PIM Suite", and "YouAmp" threads. Did you know that when you install "Seqretary" it also installs a great little sound recorder that can pick up voices across the room? Just one of the reasons I stay excited at this forum.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

The novelty will wear off. Just give it some time.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

/me begins council impeachment proceedings...

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

nwerneck, I can somewhat sympathise with you but I don't agree with your core argument that this forum is now dead for n800 owners.

I've always been behind the curve here.
I got a 770 when everyone was gushing about their shiny new n800s.
I got a n800 when everyone was waxing lyrical about their cool new n810s etc***.

So even though I've always been late to the party I've still found the forum very useful both in old, informative threads and also the willingness of other members to help and discuss "old" issues.

I don't feel a need to look anywhere else for an n800 forum.








***On the plus side the price I paid for my devices was only a fraction of what early adopters paid for theirs :D.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

I hope you are right. To me the forum seems to have a lot of "noise" about N900 on it. I am not knocking N900 (I read many of the N900 posts). The forum reminds me of my lawn when I plant new grass seeds...looks good but it will look better when I get the weeds out!! :D

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

It sounds like some of you are hoping for that.
I just don't understand why ?

I've not owned the older tablets, since I've always been a "one device" kind of guy, so I'm new to this forum too. But I've felt welcome here, received good advices, and in return tried to integrate and be helpful too.

Sure, there are a lot of repeating threads, and a lot of "noobs", but I see that as a positive thing, as it means that the Nokia tablets are gaining popularity, a thing a thought all of you old timers would want and appreciate..

Sure, it can feel like "your" forum is being invaded by strangers, but that's how communities work. They grow and evolve, and we need the experienced users, to help steer the direction.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

i guess what we are seeing rightnow is a kind of "usenet september", tho i hope it wont turn into a "september that never ended".

thing is that there are a lot of people out there that wrote of the earlier maemo running products as they where not phones. I swear, there seems to be people in this word that grabs the most expensive smartphones on the highest subsidized plan just to show off but that will move on ones their binding runs out and the next eyecatcher comes around...

a non-phone pocket device is a geek thing. a phone on the other hand is a "style" thing.

me, bitter, not unlikely...

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

btw, i wonder if not some annoyance with the threads is that one is pretty much back to square one in the knowledge department.

very little from earlier devices and maemo versions seem to apply, and unless one is planing to get one (i wrote ot the community offer ones i heard about the one week guarantee) there is not much point reading them...

now if nokia would launch a non-phone version...

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

To clarify my novelty statement: I think the N900 novelty will wear off, and a lot of the "noise" will subside. I'm already seeing people asking more of the usual Maemo questions again ("How do I get sshfs running?") and there already seems to be a lot less of the whinging and moaning from the smartphone users going on.

I really hope it does get better.

And as for the "incompatibility" questions... again, what specifically are you referring to? Is it the fact that the N900 has hardware features that the N8x0 doesn't have? Or are there apps that you wish you had for the N8x0 that are only found on the N900 (that aren't hardware dependent)?

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

@nwerneck and like-minded N8x0 users:

Please see my post #1 about a way to save this forum for N800 and N810 users: If you think N800, N810 and Diablo need Their Own Forum; or something like that ... ... and please take the trouble to register for a maemo.org (or garage.maemo.org) log-in so that you can participate in the Brainstorm about maintaining the viability of this forum for N8x0 users.

I believe that my Solution #1 in that Brainstorm can save this forum for us if it is implemented soon, that is, before too many more of us just give up and stop coming here.

The idea behind Solution #1 is (primarily) to change Talk on this forum so that we could go through New Posts and see only those threads that have new posts that are relevant to us as Diablo (N810, N800, and 770) users. To better understand how that solution could help, and how easy it ought to be to implement, please see my posts #5 and #15 and #17.

Re: Complaint of the week: I have a N800 and I am not dead yet
 

I undertood that by “novelty” you mean discussions about price, availability and “oh, it shines!” I am certainly eager to see that ending. But someone might understand you are talking about a more general and sophisticated feeling of excitement with the device and its possibilities. I have not lost this feeling with my own N800 yet... So for those who might have gotten the impression we are talking about people losing their interest for their devices, rest assured we believe this is impossible :) (I hope I am talking for qole here...)

That sentence was music to my ears. :D


Not to mention users from older devices! ;)

Thank you so much for this high quality question!

I mean by no means hardware-related incompatibilities. I have lived with the lack of keyboard and GPS so far, and I can sure accept that my N800 will not start making calls even if I managed to run Maemo 5 in it.

I can also live with the fact that some programs will be just too heavy to run in a less powerful processor. When I run GIMP on my Pentium 3 I don't whine about it being sluggish, I just feel grateful for having been able to try at all. And I feel good when I notice, for example, that I can still update the GIMP in this old machine of mine and use the new Lanczos scaling algorithm instead of just cubic...

I am not looking for a strictly-N8x0 forum. What I want is to see threads that are relevant to me. We must exercise what exists in common in all our devices.

There are small problems in Diablo that I bet N900 users will also have. We must make sure we will all work together to solve them... More users = more contributions and more people benefiting from contributions.

The whole concept that “Maemo 5 is a new version that will not run in N8x0” sounds alien to my Linux ears. It should have been “Maemo 5 will come with a fancy desktop that N8x0 users should ignore.” It's a pity that to show that we must have all the work of building Mer...

Before finishing: I am very happy with all the feedback. The forum is alive and kicking afterall! ;)