"Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Here is an article about how it appears that sales of the Apple iPod touch now exceed iPhone sales:

http://iphonetouch.blorge.com/2009/1...es-the-iphone/

Personally, I'm not surprised, as it's cheaper, smaller, and doesn't require $1,000/year in fees.

What amazes (and appalls and disheartens) me is that Nokia -- which created the category with the 770 and then the N8x0 -- has abandoned the category. Think about it: the Touch tablets are selling so fast that they are more popular than the iPhone, yet Nokia has zero offerings in the category.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Somewhere in the forum, there is talk about N920, tablet with bigger screen and no cell? I would call it a Nokia tablet..........at least in my dream.

bun

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

The n900 functions perfectly fine without a SIM card I know someone using it in such a manner for everyday use.

Would a separate iPod Touch product be necessary at all were it not for Apple's carrier exclusivity deals and the fact that the iPhone will not operate at all without cellular activitation?

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

My best friends have just bought Touch's for all the kids for xmas. They have been doing download frenzy on the free apps in the apps store.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Except that it cannot use another phone to access the internet. That is "functions perfectly fine" in the iWorld, but we got used to a bit better with the internet tablets.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

http://images.encyclopediadramatica...._story_bro.png

That's pretty irrelevant. I could make up a silly car or pizza analogy for this, but yeah, let's not go there.

Whether or not one of the most expensive cell phones on the market can be crippled to almost (no applications to speak of though) match devices half its price is not a strong buying point. The N900 is a very expensive tablet if you buy it as such. So yes, it probably "works fine as a tablet" (not really, IMHO, but let's not talk about its appearance/thickness compared to Apple's toy, applications etc.) , but nobody except a die-hard Maemo fanatic would ever consider buying it for that purpose. In the mean time, the Ipod Touch is everywhere and the Android tablets are starting to come out as well.

It's a bit late now, but still, even now a separate Nokia tablet would be great in getting people into Maemo. Frankly, Nokia blew this thing themselves. The tablets should've been coming out and improving constantly N700->N800->810->N850->N860 etc.) while we waited (and continue to wait...) for a truly good Maemo phone, that would've gotten more and more people into Maemo. Now we're left with one modern Maemo device, one that leads the market in exactly one user group, the Linux enthusiast. N810 updated with newer CPU and a Diablo OS with bug fixes would be the best tablet on the market. There was no new Maemo device for 2 years (forget the Wimax, never even seen one...), why oh why?

Maemo "was there first" - there is no reason except stupidity and lack of vision for Nokia to give up on the lead they had in tablet devices. Now if they even decide to get back into the tablet devices, they'll be playing catch-up to Apple and Android there! Incredible. Not a week goes by without a new Android phone or tablet being announced, rumours of Apple tablet, etc.

I totally agree with GeraldKO. It's incredible that Nokia just gave the tablet market away. Incredible and sad. No wonder the company's stock price has gone from 60 to 9 euros with leadership and vision like this.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Ummm............I am not aware that one HAVE to use a sim card with the N900. I have been using for 2 wks, no sim card, no problem, almost...........except one cannot access the phone menu without sim card. I throw in an outdated att sim card for config of the phone then I threw the sim card away....to make the phone lighter :)

And yes, it is a very expensive tablet by all means :(

bun

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Well what is the N900 then ? I think adding a sim card slot is a great idea. If you don't need it then don't use it, but it cuts down the amount of gadgets that you have to carry around and it makes sure that you are connected wherever you are unlike 770 which would be useless in an area with no WiFi.

So if I have to pick between any other tablet and N900 then it would be the N900 hands down. As for pricing then all I could say is "this is Nokia", the Booklet 3G sells for $600 compared to $200 ~ $499 netbook range so Nokia is expensive in general.

So if I have the option to have a tablet with 3G SIM and telephony available for $100 more the so be it.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

You're kind of missing the point here: this thing is not advertised as a tablet, so even if you are able think that SIM slot is a great add-on to a tablet, to the rest of the world this is "not a tablet". Outside of this forum, the N900 is a cell phone. Sorry.

Also, the $100 (seriously, though, the price difference between the N900 and any modern tablet-like device is at least double that, in euros) is probably a bigger deal to people buying the kids or wife internet devices.

If Nokia is not interested in tablet devices, then fine, it's their call. But claiming that the N900 is something that people buying the iPod touch / Android tablets / upcoming Apple Tablet would consider is just silly. Maemo should be all over the tablet segment, in my opinion, since it's well-suited for tablets. I'm just cranky that Nokia doesn't seem to agree.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

i don't see how ipod touch (or the iphone for that matter) with their stripped down browsers could qualify as "internet tablets"...

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

I was pretty :confused: about that too.

First of all how much do you think the Apple tablet will sell for ???

Second, honestly anyone who doesn't know what the N900 wouldn't probably be looking a tablet in the first place :p

Finally from a financial standpoint again anyone in the market for a internet tablet wouldn't mind spending for a N900 (hence you, me, and everyone here) and as for parents buying their kids (why in hell, IDK) internet tablets then all they have to do is buy o-n-e device instead of two or three (if you count the 5MP camera) which I am sure they would appreciate and will be cheaper.

IMHO You are right though about people thinking the N900 is just another phone, but from business point of view that would be good cuz they are doubling their demographics.:D

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

In summary: "So what"

It is just a gadget - it either fits your requirements or it doesn't. It is either marketed in a way that makes you want to purchase it or it isn't. It is priced reasonably for you or it isn't.

Make your decision and move on.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

I haven't ever hear anybody use tablet and ipod touch together. I haven't either seen any more interest with the Android tablets than with the old Nokia tablets, if even that.
I understand that if any forum just this might not agree, but imo phone is clearly the device that will bring all the gadgets together and maybe even a bit more. I guess Nokia could try PMP market that's mostly controlled by ipod, but that would fragment Nokia's portfolio even more when they should concenrate more about making all those other gadgets obsolete. Afterall they are world largest camera and MP3 player manufacturer ;)

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

The big Apple tablet may sell for a lot, but Amazon had the new 8gb touch on sale for $150. How does that compare to the price of the N900?

Saying the touch is not a tablet because of its "stripped down browser" is either just semantics or just stupid. People use it to surf the web, get info and entertainment off the internet, read e-books, etc.

tissot, your idea of Nokia "making the other gadgets obsolete" is proved silly (at least in this era) by the fact that the late-comer touch is outselling the iPhone.

Not everybody needs an 8-cylinder SUV; plenty of people are satisfied with a little passenger car.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

There is a market for people who want a form factor like the N8x0. The cell radio add a big premium to the price of smartphone. So the N900 w/o a SIM card is really an option. I hope Nokia doesn't leave the folks want a N9x0 Internet Tablet out in the cold.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

This doesn't do the following:

1. bring the price down (you still pay $200 for the radios you don't use)
2. make the screen larger (the decrease in size from the predecessors was likely in order to make N900 more phone-like).
3. avoid the tons of disappointed with the phone functionality users.

IMO, all and every flaw, lack of functionality, drawback in the N900 is solely and entirely caused by the fact it was surgically reassigned to be a cell phone rather than the next generation NIT as we had hoped it to be.

Having a cheaper tablet/media device with the same OS would increase the user base and bring more developers, as it did for Apple, with practically zero investment in development.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

I agree, I would have preferred the n900 to have kept a more similar form factor to the n810, but primarily to support a larger battery, bigger screen, and better kickstand.

And I do think it would be beneficial to market the n900 sans cell radios at a cheaper price point, or an updated freemantle capable 810 at a cheaper price point.


I still would have wanted mine with the cell radios though.


Yes the n900 is nearly twice as expensive as an iPod Touch.

But an iPod Touch isn't anywhere near the tablet that the n900 is, not even going into flash support (which could be seen as a feature or a bug depending on how you look at it)

iPod Touch can't run more than one app at a time, and good luck doing voip on it. I don't know what IM protocols are supported on the Touch's OS, but I seriously doubt the support is as wide as the n900.

I'd argue that most of the people in the market for an iPod Touch aren't looking for a tablet of sorts, but more a music/video/game device, with web browsing as a bonus.

None of NIT's have been particularly stellar at this task out of the box, and this has been Apple's strongest market segment for years.

So yeah, not to surprising that the iPod Touch sells better as a toy than the n900.

It doesn't take a Maemo fanboy to prefer the n900 over the iPod Touch, just a fan of openness or open source in general, or someone looking for more than a locked down media player.

The biggest impediment I see mentioned to using the n900 more like the old NIT's is the lack of bluetooth dun client support. Yes this is lame.

Can you tether an iPod Touch over bluetooth?

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

The N900 has 32GB of memory, so you have to at least go up to $299, which is how much the 32GB Touch costs. Add in the camera and the hardware keyboard the Touch doesn't have and an OS that has a lot of freedom to the user, I think the pricepoint is still reasonable for a new product.

Then there are the sales expectations. Apple probably can afford a smaller price margin because of the volume that they sell. I doubt any tablet that Nokia would sell would approach that volume, therefore needing a higher price. Certainly, many of the previous gen tablets ended up getting heavily discounted at the end of their lifecycle. I had many opportunities to pick up a cheap 800 or 810 on Buy.com in the past.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

If I were Nokia, I would make a N900 tablet edition without the cell radios (if it really does reduce the price by $200). Even better if they use a form factor similar to the N810 with a larger screen, but leave Maemo 5 as is. That would make development easy. Perhaps even dual SD card slots with the more space without the cell radios.

I would also make a cheaper N900 mini version like the N97 mini, at a cheaper price for those who can't afford the normal version.

Additionally, once the main bugs are sorted out, I would make a version of the N900 without the keyboard for those who don't like that. Perhaps reducing the camera if it helps to make a slimmer form factor, although if there is no difference I would leave the 5MP camera there.

This shouldn't be too difficult to make, and the same OS would be on all versions. Any of them without a SIM card would behave just like the N900 does without a SIM card (ie. no phone settings).

Perhaps there could be other versions with very little storage or smaller storage options with lower price tags, eg. 2gb, 8gb, 16gb. Perhaps that may only be reserved for the Mini variations (perhaps in other colours such as pink to attract other customers... I know women who buy a phone just because it's pink, it's true!).

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

The point isn't the form or the OS... the point is connectivity. Nokia started us on this journey with tag lines like "Web in your pocket", "Walk and Web", etc.

GK's proposition is solid. Nokia abandoned the tablet market. Period, end of report.

Many of us have been demonstrating the usefulness of having a pocket browser that can take advantage of local WiFi connections. We have shown these capabilities to friends and colleagues over the past 2 or 3 years with our 770, N800, and N810's.

At my brothers house this Christmas we had a mini geek-a-thon. My N900, a neighbor's Droid, a brother in-law's G1, and my sister in-law's iPhone 3G. (Most were first turned on to what a "smartphone" could do for them by using one my tablets over the past two Christmases BTW.).

To level the playing field we were using my brothers WiFi. All could perform most of the tasks that were called out and all believed we had won. The tasks were simple, like tell me what tomorrows weather will be like in Hong Kong, or what did GE stock close at and what was its 2 year high and low. All mundane and all sometimes determined by knowing where to look and having a web shortcut on the main page. :)

The N900 was the overall winner because it could connect quickly to random, flash intensive sites that the pre-teen children called out. The teens only seemed to be interested in how cool they looked while texting. The N900 lost that one :) , but regained ground with them when they realized they were able to show everyone how their actual Facebook pages looked on the N900.

But the real winner as far as price/features/value was concerned was when my sister pulled out her iPod touch. It couldn't do flash and it pretty much was just a platform for apps she downloads but, she has an app for just about everything she needs.
She is a senior flight attendant on the North/South American leg of a Major US airline. She uses a small Nokia world phone for most communication but uses the touch for everything else including Skype. Between planes, airports, and hotels, a WiFi connection is usually always available to her.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Considering many of those want roughly 10 USD a day for access, I hope she can expense it. The occasional one offers free access, but I've found free access to be very rare.

It's funny, the lack of truly ubiquitous access is what kept me away from the N800/N810. With 3G data support I whole-heartedly jumped on the platform. The draw of being a device running an actual linux distro and not the "linux in kernel only" that is Android is a double plus.

But then I'm also a software engineer who enjoys FOSS philosophies (reasonably) so I am biased.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Jailbreaking cures that in under 10 minutes.

There are several ways of doing this. All you need is a headset with a mic and an app...Fring, Skype...or even GV Mobile.

Doesn't this solve the DUN issue?
http://maemo.org/downloads/product/M...bluetooth-dun/

I'd pay serious coin for DUN on my Touch.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

I didn't say the price of the N900 was unreasonable. I said: Not everyone needs an SUV. :)

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

OK, my point is here -

I work with Linux OS from ... something around 1993.
I had and I have in my hands a lot of Linux equipment (including Zaurus).

But I bought N900 primarily because it has both - Linux and cell-phone.

Without cellphone I opt for netbook with normal KBD and decent CPU etc. The N900 form factor is attractive for me only because it has a phone inside - I am tired to keep in my pockets cellphone amid with Palm and I don't want just replace my Palm. And of course, from many choices I prefer a full Linux.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Nobody says you shouldn't have a cellphone with your tablet. Good for you!

So, are you saying every Maemo user should have to have a cellphone? That's the question. (And we know what Apple's answer was to that question, and how it worked out for them.)

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

I don't have a sim card for my N900 but yesterday I used Skype to text to a friend in Moscow (it's snowing and snowing there) and had a long conversation with Skype (not to Moscow) today that was good quality, better than other Skype experiences I've had.

But I think I'm already over my frenzy with the N900; it's not good for some of the things I like to do -- back to my Kindle and Netbook for them, and occasional uses of the N900. I think I'll use my N800 about as often, since it plays Audible books, whereas the N900 doesn't.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

i suspect that mifi have leveled the playing field...

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Free WiFi is now a perk doled out to frequent travellers. Hotel chains, private airline lounges, and rental car companies offer access to many "Hotspots" using membership credentials.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

I'm pretty sure that Nokia has a vertical OS strategy, which means phone - tablet - mini laptop. Qt has a big role in this strategy.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

nokia a billion dollar enterprise just does not get it-the mobile phone users of 15 years ago -those first users of the mobile phone have evolved -they want a phone for making calls and a internet device for the web-they want seperate items-they are now serious people who use phones for business etc-the tablet/computer must have a decent sized screen for those tired eyes-n900 are good for 20-30 year olds but after that the phone must just be -a phone -simple to use -and what little time is left over after a long working day-then a tablet -to check the weather

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

You are missing the poimt. ipod touch may be going great guns now but the days of a wifi only device is coming to an end. Once the new and improved symbian OS (solid browsing, apps, camera etc) hits cheap Nokia phones, it will displace the ipod touch and similar devices just as most music phones are fast displacing the iPod. The Nokia 5800XM is now the top selling music player here in the UK proving that converged devices is the way to go.

However LTE/Wimax may turn my thery on its head but lets wait and see.

Dont worry about Nokia, they know what they are doing just grossly underestimated. Those finns are quiet and placid but DEADLY - see how they will thrash Apple with patents.

Happy new year.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

I just want better devices.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

well there's an Apple for that. The iPhone is much better than N900 as an all round device. :cool: Its not for me though - I prefer the power and versatility of the N900, rough edges not withstanding.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

an updated N8xx form factor.

what's the block to nokia for doing this?

must be an internal 'political' decision.

and it's plain stupid and wrong.

I've given up waiting/hoping now though!

Just keep my N800 as a video player for trips/flights.

big shame.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

I've given up advocating the cell phone "companion device" (aka lower cost tablet) idea. It appears that established power bases (read: the Symbian and S40 groups) within Nokia fear the Linux-based newcomer so the driveless train rolls on based on the un-market-driven needs of those older groups, now deemed to be low and mid-range products.

Affordable companion tablet using (and growing) Maemo would apparently step on their new territories, although in reality the more mature and capable companion tablets would most likely help the sales of their less smart handsets!

I'd like an updated tablet to accompany my mid-range Nokia phone; and lot of people who have admired my now-defunct N800 might do likewise. Now if they wish to enjoy the live internet goodness they'll end up buying a bloody ipod, or one of the more mainstream Android phones, a market where there's actual competition and momentum (more obscure technical details aside).

Without a modern tablet I'll probably end up eventually getting a mid-range Android device too. At least that camp is flogging their wares like there's no tomorrow instead of intentionally limiting the choice of hardware (and as a consequence software) like Nokia does.


From GSMarena/Nokia:

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Nokia tablets are way overpriced. A 3rd gen 8GB iPod touch is under $200. Compare that to the price of N8x0

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

I have a strong sense of déjà vu here remembering Palm's decision to abandon PDA's and focus on smart phones some years ago as well as their insensitivity to the importance of product continuity for core customer community and need for a flourishing third party application ecosystem. Nokia leadership seems to have the same mindset relative to internet tablets. :(

I deeply appreciate the efforts of the maemo open source community but I have to agree with multiple posters here that upcoming Android tablets - and even Apple iTouch - fill a significant price/performance/usability product space that the N900 does not even touch. Moreover, these products will likely be well postured to grow upward into the N900 niche.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Keeping the tablet line going will also make it easier to create the inevitable touchscreen laptops.

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

The future cost of foregoing the tablet user, or more aptly termed by Peet, the cell phone "companion device" user is exposure.

In addition to the millions of iPhone users now there are millions of iTouch users.
The iPhone GUI will be more acceptable to them than other alternatives as a front end for controlling dumb appliances that are now evolving with built in connectivity.

I believe a companion device will still shake out to be a viable market. It may eventually be larger than the whole "smartphone" market combined, as evidenced by GK's post.

People may begin to realize that taking that expensive smartphone with them everywhere when at times they just need access to a cell phone, may not be very "smart" at all. And that loosing or breaking one half of their communication electronics is cheaper and easier to replace when traveling and has less negative impact on productivity.

Where the iTouch looses ground however is BT DUN. The Nokia tablets played nice that way. :)

Re: "Surging iPod touch eclipses the iPhone" ... while Nokia stupidly abandons tablets!
 

Not to mention more places are doing free wi-fi to buck the increasing data plan usage. I think companies like AT&T prefer users to switch to one of their wifi points rather than continue sucking up celluar data bandwith.

Then you have companies like Mcdonalds which plan on offering free wi-fi to everybody starting in 2010 to compete with Starbucks.

I do think Nokia should create Maemo devices without cellular capability (for a cheaper cost compared to Maemo devices with cellular capability). Sure you may not be able to use cellular data but you could always tether it to a device that has it if you wanted data access everywhere.