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Apple, Maemo and the democracy
This article is about open source vs proprietary closed systems, or about Maemo vs "iPad-ish OS". Here are some fragments, let me know what you think of the entire article:
" A computer has to be built by a smarter person than me, on technical and scientific basis that are way above average knowledge and common understanding, so that telling a computer to run a BASIC routine to be considered by the machine a game in a “sandbox” and nothing else at all. I need to know that I use a computer as a tool that really is far above my comprehension, meaning it’s made in years of research and it’s made by teams of hundreds of smarter people than me, in order to rely on it. .... This at least is one strong motive for Apple keeping a closed environment: protecting their own money, therefore protecting their programmers revenue. Don’t get me wrong: I’m blogging now from my N900, running a closest Maemo OS to open source in mobile tech. But open source should only be the seed, not the final product." "Nokia has made almost no money from the apps, but only from device huge numbers, which are now threatened by Apple and Google. So they put a seed in the ground – Maemo – because they have no clue how to make money from apps and services." The entire article here Maemo community should be the exact opposite of the Apple fanboys, so ... hit hard! |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
Another American Blogger who fails to see beyound his US borders.
I have no time for US techbloggers who are blinderd by the shiny Apple logo. All I read was somebody doing their best to convince themselves to buy and iPad. After doing Psychology for 5 years before going into programming I can honestly say that Apple are the best technology company in understanding the psychology of human behavior and how to influence this behavior. This blog post seems to be a good anecdotal example. |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
Though I don't agree 100% with the article, I think he has made some good analogies.
I also think that many people (read:zealots) commits the common fallacy of clumping a few variables that are not always related into a single side/entity. |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
@Techtertainment
Wrong guess: not an US, not a blogger, not an Apple fanboy, not about Apple's shiny logo and I'd dare to say not a psychology graduate. Read and come with real arguments, cause this is a forum, not an obituary. |
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I will just looove to pay hundreds of euros to be able to do things he likes! How exciting! Why didn't I realize this earlier? I just stupidly spent my money on things I like myself :eek: Silly me. |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
Well, the only thing that is unbelivable, for this article is that it is supposed that only people who are paid is smart. that would mean that the most linux OS has been done by non smart people, and that of course is not at all true.
Definively I do not like at all the way apple marketing. |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
onutz: Disregard the haters. Some of us will get it, the rest will seeth in the corner.
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Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
The article makes a similar premise to one that I read some days ago about old vs new world computing. I'll say my response to this piece like I've said to others here before:
There are more users than developers. There always has been. The writer of the article while correctly assessing the approach that Apple is doing, has missed the approach that Nokia is doing. I'd belabor the point, but it pretty much amounts to making things system (organically and better able to respond to environmental and market forces, versus the previous siloed approach)-driven rather than company-vision driven (organic, but more profitable to the state of the market to be if it can be predicted). This is why it helps Nokia to have an ecosystem where anyone can have their hands into the car. This doesn't help Apple because while its true that most don't want control over the "magic" they don't understand, they do want control over the outcome of that magic. Not trying to hold Nokia up on some moral soapbox, but to think like Maemo brings accountability; to think like iTunes offloads it. There will be room for both to be significant platforms for users. The person's final point about likening Maemo/Nokia to going to MIT says a lot. While its true that a lot of folks don't go/get into MIT, they sure do invest a whole lot into what those persons learn - with and without the buggyness of getting under the hood ;) |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
Well, let me boot into Fedora on my N900 and read this article through Lynx.
Anyway, Apple doesn't have customers. Apple doesn't like customers. Apple wants fanatics who will buy everything they serve them.- |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
The article likens maemo & open source to a pre 1990 Romanian D.I.Y car and iPhone/ Ipad to a 2010 Mercedes Benz = FAIL.
If I may extend his analogy: Just use a car to get you to work & see your folks. Well what if the car (ipad) can only perform the very basic function of getting you to a place provided it is a well paved well lit urban area (basic text messaging). What if one day I want to go see my country cousins who live off a dirt road (facebook IM intergration)? On the closed car (ipad) I cannot tinker to equip it with off road tires (pidgin protocols for conversations)? Then I cannot visit my cousins I have to wait for the next car (iphone 4) to get to go see my country cousins. Why limit myself? |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
Onutz,
I have to say I mostly disagree with the points you're making in your article. First, I believe the analogy between cars and computers is inappropriate; while cars are perceived only as tools, computers nowadays are something much more: they are an extension of our personality. Tinkering with your car is strictly a hobby; tinkering with your computer is a necessity. A car has to be safe, fast, and comfortable; a computer has to be anything you choose it to be -- a communication device, a fashion accessory, an entertainment center, an oracle... I could have agreed to some extent if you were only comparing cars to computer hardware. Fixing your car is similar to modding your hardware, but when it comes to software, it is a completely flawed simile. Most people, without a doubt, are only concerned with content consumption, and for them a generic polished closed-up device is fine; but for many people the boundary between viewing and editing is blurred; the content that they are interested in does not exist on any commercial system, because it gets created by themselves. Believe me I understand your sentiments against the DIY mentality from a former Easter-blocker point of view: after years of demagogy and lack of market competition, it must feel nice to be reassured that someone cares about you as a customer. However, waking up from the post-communist nightmare one pretty soon realizes that the coveted free market of the West has its drawbacks too; the one that is relevant to the current discussion is the fact that any idea that isn't profit driven and that doesn't generate revenue is unlikely to survive. Alas, we live in an age when money no longer drives progress, but instead stifles it. In a way, the iPad follows an old tradition by Apple to use well established trends with a 1-2 year delay, presenting a polished albeit somewhat unimaginative product that "just works", and not much more. There are, however differences that stem from the current economy downturn: unlike some other Apple products, the iPad is by far not the pinnacle of technology advancement, its design is driven by necessity and want. While previously Apple have been temporarily crippling features as part of their marketing strategy, they are now sacrificing them altogether, to target a certain price point. They couldn't maintain their usual profit if they had added to the iPad a camera, a screen with higher pixel density or modern aspect ratio, e-ink display, connectivity ports, etc. Thus, the iPad is another example where customers are not presented with the best that could be designed, but with whatever makes most profit... As to the teams of hundreds of people smarter than us, well I don't know about you, but in my case that just isn't possible. And I find your suggestion to go to MIT to learn computers preposterous: I already have my degree in a completely different field, and I do not see why this should prevent me from writing up some C code when I want a calculation to finish today instead of next week... Well, you asked for opinions, here is mine. I hope this post isn't longer than your original article... |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
the writer give us a wrong example,
if i only want to go from point A to point B i will buy "DIY" like car Dacia for the price of iPad & iPhone and for the rest will spend with my friends. General Motors was near faliment vs. romanian Dacia Logan car manufacturer . Logan is a best seller across Europe. if apple product are so good why there are not on 95 % market share ? the writer is a romanian guy and for most romanians an expensive fancy car is a must even if they live on 30 square feet room so here is the example. the guy is nobody on world and deserve a great iSictir word joke from apple iPh..., iPa... and romanian sictir. sictir translated as like no 1 on this http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sictir |
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Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
that article is stupid. what a waste of time.
I get the point he is trying to make, Apple is smart for protecting it's stuff, but when you need a special adapter just to plug in a USB device into your iPad, maybe you've crossed over from protecting your assets to just plain being an ***. Does Ford, or Mercedes for the matter build their cars using special pattern screws and nuts and bolts, made of say a parallelogram head ? of course not. because no one would want to buy a proprietary tool just to mess with their car. the biggest problem I have with Apple, is 2 things: 1. Their F'ing products ARE NOT INNOVATIVE. why the freak do they have to release some dated product and be heralded as an innovator. 2. Their F'ing followers are so smug about owning Apple products. How many times has an i-anything user given you that smirk like their (insert apple product here) is the greatest thing since sliced bread. When the very first Ipod came out, I thought to myself "this is junk. it's over priced, and doesnt do much outside of play music only found in an itunes store" but I was there, eventually movie stars started showing up on TV with one in their hand, and bam, instant success. great now i'm going to bed angry. /rent hahaha. |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
Onutz, am I the only one to think that a not-so-small part of you is deeply nostalgic of the years when every Rumenian bloke was a do-it-yourself mechanic?
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Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
The author of the article is mixing up things. First of all, it appears he does not know the difference between free software and open source. That hurts...
Second, open source systems are old Rumanian cars, while closed source systems are Fords, Renaults and Mercedes? I don't really get it. Just because there are products out there based on open source software, that are not as major as Mac OS or the iPhone OS? There are many systems out there based on open source/free software, that are stable and usable as Mac OS, he probably just doesn't know or recognize. Maemo is a good and simple counterexample. It's open (partly) and working. My mom does not have a clue about the operating system actually running and just uses the N900 as she uses her iPhone and for her it works. So, it works for the average users who want to experience the magic and for those who actually want to take a look under the hood. Beside that, countless friends of mine are actually often mad about the restrictions the iPhone/Apple imposes on them. Take for example: setting a ring tone, replacing the battery... Now what Apple does with their app store etc. is nothing new: its tying customers to their products and system. Google does the same with the android market and to me it seems Nokia doesn't really know which way to go yet. Obviously their are not pushing OVI as they could. The difference between Nokia, Apple and Google is, that Nokia has been manufacturing mobile phones for years now. In these years they relied on symbian as a stable, reliable and optimized OS running on their devices. Many devices sold are still running Symbian, and for years there will be phones running this operating system. As market leader they obviously have missed or misinterpreted recent developments. Now they have symbian, which is still fine, but not competitive in the "smartphone segment" and maemo, which is more than competitive, but lacks the user and developer base of Symbian. We will see how things evolve here in the coming months, years. Nevertheless, to come back to the closed source argument. The real innovation is not only the OS or only the hardware: it's the combination. To me open source/free software can be more innovative than any closed source system developed secretly. Nokia is a big hardware manufacturer, having more experience in the segment of mobile devices than many others. With maemo being innovative as it is, yes it is, and becoming more mature all they need to do is coming up with good hardware, harmonizing with the OS. I have no doubt they will. What will happen to OVI, if they can attract enough devs for maemo, if there will be thousands of apps for maemo devices as we know it from other platforms: we will see. This will definitely also have a big influence on the success of upcoming devices etc. However, the openness of a platform, in my opinion, only encourages developers. They can exploit the possibilities of this approach and create powerful apps, users on the other hand want and enjoy to use. So, this indirectly has positive influences on the users. |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
I've let my comment on the article directly.
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Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
Not by me but still I Think this is a good contrast to your article:
http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/...2576C30068FAA9 |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
Apple's OSX is based on the UNIX source and FREE BSD last time I checked . . . . anyway . . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X An open source system is like a Ford, Honda a Mercedes or any other type of car.....their is documentation about them, how to fix them, how to modify them, you can take them apart and put them back together again. You can take them to the dealers mechanic to buy parts and service or you can goto a custom body shop and add custom body kits and even an engine that the manufacture never would have dreamed about manufacturing. A closed source automobile would be like some type of car you could not open the hood . . . . image the hood of the car was locked with a key or a combination lock . . . . only the dealer could open it . . . . you could not change the oil or the spark plugs yourself or anywhere else but from the manufacture's body shop . . . . In the real world no one would buy a car like that . . . I mean you can even unscrew your Vacuum Cleaner to change the belt yourself . . . but unfortunately when it comes to software this is alot easier . . . even a windows PC uses standard parts for the most part . . . . If you want a bigger hard drive you can just go out and buy one from a wide variate of different manufacturers and since their are standards in hard drives they will all work just fine. Apple had TRIED building fully proprietary devices like these for years but they never really took off as compared to the customizable PC's and they finally had to start building STANDARDS COMPLIANT COMPUTERS that used Intel Processors and other standard components. I mean who would buy a computer you couldn't upgrade they screen on? Or a cellphone you couldn't replace the battery on? Oh ... wait..... anyway ... That is why you can now run Windows or Linux on a Mac and Mac OSX on a PC. Open Standards helps sells and mass appeal - Check out the stats of Apple's Sales from their own proprietary "POWER PC" processors to the switch too the Intel processors http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...csales.svg.png Don't let this chart fool you tho . . . Apple's sprint of trying to lock you out of the things that they sell you has not died though . . . . you will find it is alive and well in the iPhone and iPod with their built-in battery and proprietary chargers. So, what happens when your iPhone's battery starts to not hold a charge anymore? You have an expensive paper weight! What about when your on the road & need to charge your iPhone but do not have your charger with you? I are screwed! If your phone used a standard Mini -USB you would be much more likely to find a friend or college with the same charger. |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
The amount of ignorance presented in the replies here are quite staggering.
Being on the side of what's perceived as 'good' (open source, free market, etc) doesn't excuse you from having proper understanding of the market... (...and logic... and grammar...). |
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Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
@Sopwith
Well said. As to the teams of hundreds of people smarter than us, well I don't know about you, but in my case that just isn't possible. And I find your suggestion to go to MIT to learn computers preposterous: I already have my degree in a completely different field, and I do not see why this should prevent me from writing up some C code when I want a calculation to finish today instead of next week - well, is this enough for fighting against proprietary system? Believe me, although it looks like, I'm not saying smarter people should be everywhere, but I believe their knowledge HAS to be much higher than mine, as a non pro. Besides that, I can't really find something I could argue against, from what you've replied. :) |
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@ARJWright
The only thing I'm really afraid of, regarding Maemo and Nokia, is for the experiment to miserably fail against too good of a marketing and management / company driven strategy Apple is up to. Really! |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
@blue_led
Sadly, your type is the one who really scares me to death about Romania... |
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I think it is very important to fight against proprietary systems. I am not a software developer myself and I admittedly do not see much difference in usability between free or closed OSs. However, I feel I can trust the open source community, while I have a huge mistrust for the closed source software, whether it is made by Apple, MS, Google or Nokia. I am not saying the latter is necessarily bad, I am just saying I do not trust it. Can you trust anything that by definition is kept secret from you? |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
@Sopwith
Can you trust anything that by definition is kept secret from you? Yes, at least food recipes :)) Now, seriously, I don't know if it's about trusting sw or companies / brands, but it's about securing the revenues, the employees jobs, the third parties deals and so on. In my article I say that on the long run, closed source does all the above better than open source. |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
I think that if apple does not open the source of its operating system, they will become not competent enough. I think that this will be a norm in the commings years for computer industry.
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They are most likely selling complete hardware/software solutions (small companies to big companies as IBM do that) and therefore make most of their their money with contracts and services. Returning to maemo, Nokia and Apple. Nowadays everybody can order and build a complete PC piece for piece. But almost no one can build his/her own mobile device. When it comes to this you have to look at Apple/Nokia as hardware manufacturers. As hardware manufacturers that build devices at a quality only few other competitors can keep up with. And again, the hardware in combination with the system does the trick. What happens if someone comes up with an iTunes like service using an open standard allowing to use the service comfortably with maemo, android, iPhone etc.? Will people still be bound to Apple? Isn't this risky in the end? Should Apple try to prevent, that something like mentioned above happens to save its revenues and jobs? I absolutely disagree with you, saying that closed source software does a better when job when it comes to saving revenues, jobs etc. Openness encourages innovation and innovation saves and creates new jobs. I know this sound pretty naive, but so does the statement, that closed source is better at saving revenues and jobs. |
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@jinx
I got your point. Then how do you think Apple blocking Adobe's flash on iPhone has impacted in revenue and market share, compared to flash free Nokia N97 / N900? Do you think Apple looses money on that, whilst Nokia is making money over the same thing? Do you think Apple's 3rd parties devs are more secured or less secured now, today, because of this strategy? Is anybody building flash browser based apps especially for Nokia and making money? Open source is good, it's the best solution for a new business. But remember both Apple and Nokia are far from developing new business. I'm telling you what I see now: iPhone gains more traction, while N97 is dead and buried and N900 is striving harder than maybe any other Nokia product. edited: Don't forget about huge html5 deployment soon to come |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
Well, you are right. Apple is blocking flash mainly because they do not want to allow flash games on the iPhone. This would be a threat to the app store. But to be honest, we all know a closed app store like Apple's will never succeed in the long run. It's a corset users will want to get rid of.
When comparing the iPhone to the N97 the iPhone will win, because for most uses cases it is the better device. It had a unique user interface tailored to the touchscreen. It's intuitive and easy to use, while the N97 has a standard symbian which also allows touchscreen input, but it is not optimized for it. Of course there is still this *sexyness* factor, when it comes to Apple devices, but let's leave that out of the discussion for now. Yepp, I'm looking forward to HTML5 and I youtube will definitely switch. However, flash is attractive to developers, although limited in its possibilities, because you do not have to port the app to multiple platforms. So, the Flash discussion most likely will not die. Especially now, that Adobe is scared Flash will die earlier than they thought and is trying hard to fix flash support on Mac. Nevertheless, what we definitely have to do in the further discussion is to separate device, OS and services as the app store. I see no point in the OS being closed source. It does not prevent a company from running an app store and making money out of it. greetings, jinx |
Re: Apple, Maemo and the democracy
One car that made most of its motor "closed source" was the Audi A2. You could only check oil and add water for the windshield cleaning. It was a big fail. However, people later appreciated its design and its functionality so prices for 2nd hand cars are quite high. In addition, throughout the 80s cars in the western world were often repaired by their owners. That changed with the advent of electronic support for every function.
From my non-developer perspective, what apple made so attractive was the guidance they gave developers. The SDK seems to be pretty easy to set up and to use. And, the strict UI guidelines ease the stress to development of a unique GUI. Its just not needed. While I think ubuntu and maemo offer similar simple solutions regarding the installation of programs, there is less control that you might end up not using certain programs because one needs sqlite2.1 the other sqlite3. The ipad most probably will be a huge success. But, as many commentors on other sites have pointed out, the target audience won't be developers or experienced computer users, it will be people who associate work with computers and see the ipad as a non-work device. icke |
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I must correct you, being the proud owner of an A2 since the 2004. The engine isn't closed at all. In fact, it's quite easy to open its hood by turning two knobs. You also get a smaller frontal opening where you can quickly access oil and windshield water. Say it's something like linux, you sudo open the hood and it's there ;) BTW my A2 has already run more than 3E5 kilometers and counting, and still burns 1 liter of diesel fuel for 20 to 24 kilometers, depending on driving conditions, This because it's all made in aluminium instead of steel so it's particularly light. I've been told that they don't produce it any more because it was too expensive for the VW-Audi group in comparison to its cost ;) |
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