What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

The thing, which first strikes me is that there is no list of what parts will be taken from the 5 years of Maemo legacy.

If anyone is worried, the best would be to try to identify the parts, which should be saved/kept as important advantages. Being through a number of organizational changes, I always find these transition phases the best times to strengthen the good parts and throw out some dead weight, which was just kept around until some better comes.

So, please only list things, which you think should be kept from Maemo legacy (Think learning materials, wiki, community, council members, tools, processes, cultural habits, dev tools, applications, people!)

I will start a separate thread about what could be thrown out during the change, so we can list those as open points or something to expect from the Moblin community, if they have any good practices.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

One thing I would like to see in MeeGo from the current Maemo community is the forum itself! So,

No. 1. Maemo Talk forums ;)

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

2. The bugsquad
3. The testing squad

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Our karma :D

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

I'd like to see the Brainstorm stuff come along. It's a good idea. And the garage (although it looks like it's headed over.)

DSP, GPU access should come along too. :)

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

no. 8. I really would like to see the one-button state-changer in the meego handheld ui too. I just love how I always need to push the same button for desktop, running apps, new app.
(i don't want the long press though.)

It really became second nature to use it.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

the one principle thing we should bring from maemo is our community.
it is our strength and without their help we wouldn't be here discussing anything today.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

What do you think gives its strength to the maemo community? (What are the sources of our superpowers? ;)

We all worship the rat
 

Our helpfulness. Like me noting that you forgot your close parenthesis. :p

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Good point, and thank you for highlighting a project I can keep working on: I have a Brainstorm process diagram in the works that might actually prove useful...

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

... or me noting that your first 'your' should be 'you'. :p

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

texrat: what is the brainstorm (preferably with link)?

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Oh, nm. Upon re-re-rereading, it looks like you're talking about brainstorm itself, not a brainstorm that you've had. :)

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

im just wondering how the moblin community is. i just like to see how you guys apps would benefit or not from the moblin guys

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

After readin bit at Moblin.org and wiki.meego.com, I would say that we should definately try to maintain people like me. That might sound very self-centered, but I mean people who aren't programmers, super-uber-geeks or work for Intel/Nokia.

Moblin seems to be a 100% "industry" based open-source community. They have no forum, almost dead mailing list and governance fully based on corporate members.

For someone like me there wouldn't be any reason at all to be part of Moblin community. Let's not let that happen to MeeGo.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

I noticed that. Moblin is mostly professional, and almost exclusively developer. Maemo has a big 'enthusiast' and 'user' component. Now that has its drawbacks (we make a lot of noise!) but it also had advantages.

Though I agree that tonight I am asking whether there's a place for a bear in this Brave New World.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Valuable Maemo parts?

Aside the community, one big thing Maemo should and must bring to MG is...

All the ARM technology expertise that Maemo has developed over all this years.

Moblin was not an ARM distro, it was a x86. So that means they have no legacy or expertise dealing with ARM, and as we know, right now, mobile = ARM.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Yes, the primary strength of maemo.org is the amateur enthusiast community. Ignore us at your peril!

EDIT:

Honestly, since Moblin has no forums, we've got no competition. The mailing-list community has more to worry about than we do ;)

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Does this mean that Bugzilla bites the eternal dust? :)

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Sadly, Bugzilla is one of the few things both partners have in common.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Darn, was trying to see some silver lining here :)

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

That actually helps one of my projects though (maemo user experience framework). I just need to abstact it up a level... rename it...

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

I have just gone through the registration process on Meego and I felt as though I was in the wrong place not being an experienced developer. I hope there is room for everybody else as although a minority of Meamo members just want to whinge there is a lot of happy banter.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

I think one of the clear values of maemo is that there is end user focus here. It could be improved - as the N900 experience has shown - but the meego site looks like maemo.org some years ago:
every user is expected to be a power user/community champion/developer.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Two things that comes to mind (with truckload of others) are:

- .DEB -packaging

- Forum user history/ statistics/ karma/ etc.
...the parts of forum user history that would be useful indicators for other users. Those should/should be moved/converted to MeeGo.com forum from both maemo.org AND moblin.org. I think this would make the getting to know the other community easier for both members.

Edit: ...ok since, Moblin seems to not have forum the second part should be even easier to implement

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

No. 11 (lost count): I would like to keep the maemo 5 multitasking screen (UI).

I don't like the symbian/android style, for me this is clear value from maemo 5.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

...this might very well be reality since from the Symbian^3 promo videos it seems like Symbian is adopting the task handling/multitasking screen almost 1:1 from Maemo5.
:)

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

+1 for community and for arm. Maemo 5 multitasking + mutlitasking GUI is also a win.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

The Maemo community is the single biggest asset, but I don't view MeeGo as a marriage (imagining merging two existing communities was too hard, and lead to feelings of hurt that Moblin seemed to be providing the technology and Maemo the consumer hardware, Qt-based UI and - probably - developer tooling).

This isn't a marriage, it's a child. It's a new platform and a new community - but the Maemo community seems to have far more power and cohesiveness than the Moblin community, so how do we bring that 5-year old knowledge to MeeGo? Now, I think trying to shove the Moblin folk and the Maemo folks together under meego.com would be a mistake. However, the next council (of which I hope to be part), will have a lot of work to do:

• Should MeeGo have a community governance structure alongside its technical one?
• Will the technology of MeeGo provide a realistic upgrade path for Maemo devices shipped without MeeGo (e.g. N8x0 and N900, even 770). If not, what happens with maemo.org? Will Nokia still pay the bills? Many questions and issues here!
• The maemo.org paid contributors are having their contracts continued, what role can we help them have?
• Who do we need to work with in the Moblin community to bring the constructive elements there over to meego.com?
• What happens with the summit? What happens to key Nokia-based members of the community like Quim? Is/was there an Intel equivalent?
• If there're company app stores like Ovi and AppUpSM, what about Extras? How does the MeeGo community do QA across multiple devices if we/they continue to have community (yum) repositories?

As a developer, I'm not too worried. Yes, it's RPM rather than deb, but Qt Creator, MADDE and the resulting Maemo 6 SDK were game changers anyway. But it's the community that's the real question, and successfully transitioning us without losing too much.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

I'm not so sure how to see it any other way, honestly. Feels like all our stuff is being dumped for whatever the Intel guys feel is best and I want so badly to be wrong and to think that there was a point to everything we've done here. Instead, it feels like the towel is being thrown in.

We don't even know if they have plans to keep Council around or anything else at this point.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

What we need (and the limited documentation available doesn't help) is a clear-cut comparison of the architecture of Maemo, the architecture of Moblin, and what pieces were taken of each other for MG.

For starters, low level kernel stuff is probably different: x86 and ARM. But on top of that? Are they using Maemo UI for smaller handhelds, Moblin UI for bigger handhelds...? Are there UI guidelines somewhere? oFono...? Telepathy...? Etc etc??

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

I think the key think I've realised today is that there is no "they". Consciously, no thought seems to have been given to anything other than commercials and technology at this point - even the technicians, like dirkhh, have been involved in the website and mailing lists which, given their positions, can't be a long term strategy :-)

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Well, as you point out there's been change here, so we could change MeeGo by joining o'er there. I'm no developer, still I joined. I posed a question on the MeeGo front page about their intention to open up for discussion threads being initiated by others than their official bloggers. Perhaps they see no value in it, and want it to stay strictly a developer community. So be it. It may actually help them to stay focused and get less of the kind of pointless flaming behavior and wasted energy. However, if they are interested in the community aspect beyond just getting developers to work for free on the platform, they may open up a discussion forum of some type. I admit however that I've grown addicted to this forum, our members, the breadth of interest, threads and the sheer convenience of all the features. Not sure it could be duplicated somewhere else.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Just joined you on that :) I've started this whole thread out of the belief that we have a chance to influence things for meego too. It worked for maemo, right? :)

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Did that as well.

I'm such a sheep running with the trendy flow.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

A few months ago I would have agreed wholeheartedly, but I can't help thinking MeeGo will be better off without what I see here now :-(

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Ok... so what is it that Moblin brings?

I hope customer service and support. :D

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Too late. As I said, I already joined.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

i.e. design by committee, which is the antithesis of everything we have here at maemo.org.

Re: What are the valuable Maemo parts to bring to MeeGo?
 

Yes, unfortunately, I kinda feel this way too. Maemo is a great OS with a great community behind it, and Moblin is yet another netbook OS (and netbooks are generally considered a fad). This might sound selfish, but we (Nokia/Maemo) have the better OS for the market that matters (mobile devices), we should be calling the shots.

And yet Intel seems to be the main force behind the now infamous change to a Fedora-like system with .rpm, etc.