Beware of the astroturfers
 

I see a lot of people posting here that look like astroturfers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

Think about it, what better time for Nokia's rivals to send in some hired thugs to try to sow FUD among the less experienced users. They cal them "Technology Evangelists".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_evangelist

Just as an example, Microsoft has a group dedicated to this type of activity.

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/...ka-te-secrets/

This is a document revealed during a Microsoft antitrust hearing:

http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowa...00/PX03096.pdf

These type of thugs activity increases at critical times, such as when a new product is launched by the company that hires them. This is done in the hopes of calling attention to their competing product. Another time when this type of activity increases is when a rival company releases a new product or seems to be making too much head way.

Most people who have been around the industry a while know this. But, I just wanted to make others aware of this because I have a feeling that some of this people are running rampant around here. :eek:

I am not saying that every one that expresses a concern should be automatically labeled an astroturfer. All I am saying is to beware of the possibility. Sometimes they are very subtle. Give people the benefit of the doubt as much as you can, but take what people say with a grain of salt.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Anti Microsoft, yet they're using Microsoft products... Oh, the Irony!

That's like the Muslim extremists who hate Western values and way of life while using Western technology.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

May I ask what are you talking about?

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Also, be especially on the lookout for moles trying to infiltrate positions of influence.

http://temporaryland.wordpress.com/2...ouraging-foss/

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

I don't follow...

What EXACTLY are you referring to, when you ask what I'm talking about?

I wasn't referring to YOU when I spoke of the Anti Microsoft Irony. I spoke of the group whose documents you linked. Perhaps the "they're" word was confusing you and you thought I was talking about you?

~shrug~

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Pure propaganda. I sure hope no one falls for that line of nonsense.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Propaganda? Really...

Tell me, how often do you work in the Middle East as a PMC? Because I'd love to sit down for a glass of tea next time you're there in the Green Zone. We can exchange war stories and lie about women we've never had.

KTHXBYE.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

I knew it! Goddamn commies are everwhere!

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

sheeps? in this forum?
ROFL.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

People use what is at their disposal to accomplish their goals. Even RMS had to use proprietary products at some point to come up with GNU. Nothing hypocritical about it. Sometimes being practical requires a temporary compromise. How deep of a compromise one is willing to make is a different story.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

As the linked documents were specifically said to be pro-Microsoft astroturfers, I'm not surprised he was confused.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Maybe you didn't realize that the PDF file I linked to was a piece evidence revealing an internal Microsoft mail exchange. I have made a note of that in the post to make it clearer.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

recognizing propaganda is neither incumbent upon nor limited by geography. but if you want to discuss further let's go to off topic.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

You call it propaganda, people with boots on the ground call "fact". When your boots are on the ground and an IED is set off by a "western" manufacturer cell phone, we'll discuss it further. And for the record, I don't hold any grudges against cell phone manufacturers for it.

When you understand how much those extremists feel threatened by the fact that women have equal rights in the West, we'll discuss it further.

When you realize that Jihad is a real and present threat to Westerners, (yes, I know, Jihad has been going on in some form or another for 1200 years), we'll discuss it further.

Are all Muslims extremists? Of course not. That's like saying all Christians are Bible Thumpers. But the extremists are indeed concerned (and dare I say, hate), the type of life we have in the West.

Until then, I really have nothing more to say to you on the subject, Sir.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

I confess to being a mole. I act like a hyped-up moderator fanboy and I participate in the religious discussions here about RPM and deb, but secretly I'm a distribution and packaging atheist. Or more precisely, I'm a distro / packaging pragmatist. I'll go with whatever's being offered.

I know, that kind of shrug-whatever attitude is useless when trying to build a religious community like this, but that's just who I am.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Oh no! Not you Qole. I never would have guess. I was thinking more of guys like this one that claims to want to marry the N900:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...099#post528099

But, I guess you never know. ;)

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Off topic, please.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Well, while the N900 is good in bed*, I don't know if I could make the kind of commitment necessary to actually marry it. What happens when the infatuation wears off and I realize that she'll never give me what I really want?** I prefer the torrid affair we've got going at the moment, anyway.

* for reading e-books, although this command might be interesting too.
** a Microsoft Windows-based phone ;)

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

This will only increase the terms that can be flung at people that disagree with others while here.

Troll. N00b. Apologizer. And now... astroturfers.

I keep reading that as astro-smurfing for some reason.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

There are other derogatory terms that have been used in the past, too.

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Doesn't this thread contribute to FUD?

Really, who can I trust now? Anybody that disagrees with me, or finds faults with, or complains about Nokia or the N900 is clearly a plant by the evil competitors. I'm starting to feel surrounded. Someone get me some tinfoil!

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Seemed to me that the identification was more specific than "anybody"...

Re: Beware of the astroturfers
 

Read the articles I linked to or do some research on the terms. Those people are much more subtle than your run of the mill troll. They like to prey on the insecure ones. The ones that don't have enough knowledge to understand the basic principles of why proprietary software is less desirable than FOSS. They will often use sentences like:

"I love Linux. But, this new Microsoft gizmo is amazing."

Of course, not everyone using such reasoning is necessarily an astroturfer. But, when ever I see such arguments I certainly become suspicious. With a few good questions you can usually make them either show their true colors or go away.

Moles are even harder to spot. They will even volunteer to help and do good work for a while. Eventually, though, they will start to stir things in a way that benefits their true, proprietary, agenda.