N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

Does anyone know if the pinch zoom work around will be available as an addon or something in the future? Extra?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNTsI...eature=related

This would be slightly handy for us to use the web browser and to zoom an image or something. I like the idea of drawing a straight line and measure the distance to zoom the screen.

This idea is great. Could any developer make this happen?

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

well, the rotate zoom used in the web browser seems more than fine
simply coz it looks original (coz it is different than the pinch apple gesture)

maybe it is easy to actually copy the command line and use it on pics

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

I like the zoom with the volume keys, it's quite rapid but not as easy if you have the keyboard slid out.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

pinch won't work since it's multitouch (two fingers at the same time) and the N900 has a resistive screen. But there are possible workarounds in the future according to some of the threads on here, they won't be as natural as on a true capacitive screen though.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

It's only natural because we are taught to behave that way.. I see no problem with keeping one finger in one place while moving the other to "pinch". I've tried that on the iphoe and that works as well.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

I'm not arguing that it's not useful, I'm just saying that it's a different screen than that of the Iphone's and as such has different functionality.

edit: I just reread the OP's first post. looks like he IS talking about the workaround. nevermind....

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

well the rotation zoom works but take too much efforts to make a zoom. The workaround pinch zoom is best for zooming pictures and maps application. Where the rotate zoom won't work.

Though it is not the true multi-touch but this is not about multi-touch post. It's a work around pinch zoom. So there is nothing to do with multi-touch. We all know that N900 doesn't support multitouch but still a work around to achieve the same goal is handy in some part of the OS.

Don't you guy agree? Imagin Pinch Zoom in Ovi Map? and Gallery picture?

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

It's not "natural" in the sense that it's kind of a hack with a resistive screen. The N900's touch-panel can only technically detect one point of touch. I believe two fingers are essentially "averaged" (imprecise, but I can't remember exactly how it works off the top of my head). If I am remembering the demo you're mentioning correctly, I believe it uses the position of the first finger (known, since it's the only point at the beginning of the gesture), and then the "averaged"/whatever point during the gesture, to get an idea of the gesture's shape. What you end up getting is essentially an origin point, and a vector taken from it. It's doable, but it's kind of a hack, as I said.
Note: if I'm getting the technical details wrong, someone please correct me :)

Update: in regards to the previous post (which was posted while I was writing this), it would be neat, but I can't see Nokia officially pushing a workaround like this into the code of any of their big apps (browser, Ovi Maps), and for those that aren't Open Source, nobody else can, either, of course. I think it's doomed to stay as a tech demo, if only because it would cause mass confusion with newbies suddenly thinking it actually was multitouch, when in fact only a certain gesture performed a certain way "works".

EDIT: as per roger_27's post, I'm referring to the type of resistive panel found in the N900; I am aware that resistive touch technology in general is not incapable of multitouch.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

well i still think it is a good business to get it working. I really do hope Nokia would take note of that workaround.

As it happened previously with the Auto Rotation function. It was not Nokia intention to make it official at the beginning but later on after there are a few hack to make the apps available and guess what? Nokia finally implemented it and add it into the OS itself as essential function :D

So nothing is impossible here. It is not out of the believable state yet! Nokia might change its mind.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

resistive screens can support multi touch.

the only real difference from resistive and capacitive, is that capacitive does not require to be slightly PRESSED to register, but rather, touched.

capacitive is better for 'dull' touches (finger, sausage), resistive is better for exact touches (stylus)

resistve = 2 layers of clear stuff. when touched, they press against eachother, registering a touch.

capacitive = the whole screen is a capacitor, when you touch it, a change is registered in the voltage, where that change happens registers as a touch.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

yes we all know that lol. it's not about capacitive, it's about pinch zoom here.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

@roger_27: Fair point, and I should have clarified. What I was meaning is that the standard "4-wire" resistive touch panels found on most devices out there are not natively able to support multitouch. To my knowledge, that is the type that the N900 is using. You are entirely right, however, that it isn't impossible based on the sensing technology itself.

@maxximuscool: I'm sure people at Nokia know about it, and I'm also quite sure the technique isn't new. I haven't kept up with the auto-rotate issue, but that's completely different. Auto-rotation is a design decision relating to software, which could be disabled or enabled for plenty of good reasons on either side. "Fake-multitouch", as in this example, is a workaround for the actual hardware, and workarounds - pretty much by definition - aren't things you ship by choice. Besides, unlike auto-rotation, it's something that each application would have to implement itself, rather than (mostly) a property of the graphical subsystem of the OS. There's nothing stopping you or others from adding support for this to your apps, but I think I can safely say that Nokia won't be shipping it, and I don't think they should, either. It would just lead to problems, and probably look bad on their part. For one thing, currently the importance of multitouch when buying a phone is just preference; imagine if suddenly it was a choice between "multitouch" and "multitouch emulation" -- no matter how you spin it, it would come off as inferior, rather than just preference. That's aside from all the technical and support issues.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

yeah it's belivable with what you said above. but i think developer can choose to implementing it in their application. i really hope some talented developers out there would find a way to integrating it into the OS wide one day. That's the whole point of OpenSource right? to share the ideas whether it's going to work or not.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

Oh, I agree that it would be cool. As for Open Source, you're right, but I was trying to point out that Nokia, as a company, probably won't; someone else might be able to do it, but then you have two problems: 1) If Nokia doesn't support it, then it won't ship on the N900 officially, limiting exposure. 2) If they don't support it, then someone else has to, which can be a lot of work. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%2...#Free_software for a better explanation)

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

FAKE MULTITOUCH.

can someone just make a image viewer app and integrate fake multitouch???

Seen apps here and there with fake multitouch examples but no one has finished it

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

I mean that holding one finger in place is also valid on the iphone for their pinch zoom. Pinching both fingers is only natural for those who have used an iphone and are trained to think the apple way.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

this is the first time i'm reading that reesistive screens can support real multitouch?!
if thats so, how come there are no devices with resistive screen that do multitouch like devices with capacitive screens?

when you push on 2 positions on a resistive screen, your effective pushed position is right between those 2 points. like its creating an average value of all points pushed.

also, holding one finger down to activate zoom and then pan up/down to zoom has already been done by samsung (look for samsung jet)

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

because there are only working prototypes, mass produced ones aren't yet available.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

Unfortunately, that seems to be a lot of people, at least in my experience. Almost everyone I show my N900 to expects it to be a capacitive screen, even if they don't know it's called that - I can tell from how they try to use it. As soon as I say that it's "different than the iPhone", and give them the one-sentence dumbed-down explanation of the difference in technologies, they get it almost right away. For that matter, look at all the comments here on t.m.o. and elsewhere, saying that the touch panel "stinks" solely because it's not what they're used to (e.g. the iPhone). I'm not saying that this is a valid design reason not to use this feature, but just that people's expectations seem to be pretty specific in this area; for a lot of people, the iPhone was where they first saw multi-touch, and their whole concept of the technology is based on it.
I'm not arguing with you, but I thought I should point that out, as silly as it is.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

:) i saw this post last night and it made me smile.
maxximus, you are right - keep up with your investigations and see what comes of them.

i did this kind of multitouch stuff a while back in liqbase and in the library its now integrated into every mouse event.

however, its not working quite as well as the other normal mouse events, theres some outside boundary cases (relating to pressure differentials between fingers) where the object under finger responds erratically and so I haven't pushed it.
i have however attempted to use it in various places and will continue to do so.

glad you are doing it in qt :)

here is a vid from my prototype on the n810
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM

btw, you can do rotation effects better because of the way you get a beam of points between your fingers.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

Yes. Same thing here. I have couple of times gave my phone for test use for some of my friends and tried not to say anything (because that's the right way to test stuff :D) But after looking their usage for a while I have to tell them to use fingernail.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

When my daughter (13) was looking for a phone she specifically said she didn't want a capacitive screen since
- she wanted to be able to use it with gloves
- it was less accurate

Took me back, but truth in both of those.

Ultimately just like the devices the screens are very different, not so much one better than the other, just different and more appropriate to particular circumstances.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

omg lol everyone that trys to use my phone treats it like a iphone. i always tell them push hardder as the screen is not responding. its so easy but maybe this is what we are used to. my girlfriend cant get used to me screen as she is a heavy iphone user.



i haven't got a problem with the n900's screen but. nokia this your fault for letting apple do this to you lol apple brainwashed public we have lol

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

by the way like i said. fake multitouch.
all we need it right now is for an image gallery app. zooming in pictures does not feel natural on the n900. not even double tap option. its bad. want fake multitouch. would also be cool :D. cant someone finish one of the few projects started but never finished?????????

look at this for example!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZSc0bvlgcc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dC2qpDsgZU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDJPBnSv0wc

This guy made these apps in flash with fake multitouch lol mmaann hes good. CAN SOMEONE TEST IF THE FLASH FILES WORK ON THE N900?? WE COULD USE THIS

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

Lol happened to me too. Gave the phone to my colleagues to test and he touch it so lightly like an iphone (he an iphone user). I have to tell him to don't be afraid to press harder.

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

did anyone have a look at my last post???????? do you think its possible???

Re: N900 Pinch Zoom Work around
 

I can see that mypaint recognises not only pressure but width of touch. Maybe we could use that info for fake multitouch (a small touch area that expands => pinch, a wide touch area that moves => two finger drag)

Also, I don't know how deep access we have to the hardware, but my understanding is that the resistive screen gives out an x,y for the touch

If I touch two points simultaneously eg 0,5 and 7,10 the wires that get shorted would be the 0 and 7 on the x axis and the 5 and 10 on the y axis. So the hardware can't possibly distinguish between my touch and the equivalent of 0,10 and 7,5.

So we can't move two balls arbitrarily on the screen with this info, but the info is absolutely enough for pinch, rotate, two finger drag etc...

multitouch on synaptics touchpad for example is just one set of coordinates and a seperate variable stating the number of fingers.

Also multitouch on the nexus one and other htc phones is not full (check out android app multitouch pong, it clearly states which devices and why) By the way, with the two x, and two y's (e.g. the four point set) even multitouch pong could be done on the N900. The 'fakeness' of the implementation would be baringly noticeable.

Finally maybe the pressure sensitivity/area data could be used for user interaction alternatively: heavy press and light press accounting for different interactions
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