A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

I think it's a bit cheeky for the Chinese firm to use Maemo, unless they are in partnership with Nokia and that the two firms work together rather than against each other. If they bring more devices to market and somehow avoid fragmenting the Maemo platform and concept, I'm all for it - more competition, more developers, more software, better products.

A UMPC device with built in GPS and mobile phone functionality running Maemo may have legs, although I suspect I'll take the smaller/lighter Nokia device for the time being. Built in GPS would be nice - maybe in the N900? - but I prefer having the mobile phone functionality in my mobile phone, and not in the tablet.

I vote this as a desirable move (if true) so long as the Chinese firm contributes to the software platform in a positive way. Maybe the Maemo platform will become that little bit more hardware agnostic, the very issue which blighted the transition from 770 to N800.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

One more thing, with Open Moko on the horizon it's quite possible that each far eastern manufacturer could go their own way and develop their own software platform, or attempt to standardise on one or two.

I suspect it would be good for Maemo if it were chosen by other manufacturers to avoid developers having to choose between numerous incompatible platforms.

With more and more high powered devices coming to market running Linux, Maemo must present a tempting proposition.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

I currently have a 770 and an Archos PMA400 (QPE-based pocket PVR and PDA with a 30Gb hard drive), and I find that combination very frustrating, because each of them independently is almost the device I want; I wish I could combine them and have a hard-drive-based device with the 770's gorgeous large screen, and the PMA400's connectivity (USB host and device, simultaneously, plus WiFi) plus the 770's connectivity (WiFi and Bluetooth, so I have net whenever I'm in cell coverage and can use Bluetooth keyboards). Maybe this device accomplishes that.

(Personally, I hope the N900 has a hard drive and a faster processor. I can live without powered USB host if I have Bluetooth; I can't really live without Bluetooth.)

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

I only wish my N800 would play movies as smoothly as my PMA430 (Archos are known for their loose handling of device names, but it seems that "PMA430", regardless of what they printed on the device itself, is the final name it went by). :D

Hard drives? I have 8 gigabytes in NaB00 now, and with the new SDHC kernel, 16 GB is a distinct possibility. Apparently, later this year 16 and 32 GB SDHC cards will become available, which will make the N800 not only the equal, but even the better of the PMA430, storage-wise that is.

And if (a rather big "if" right now) USB hostmode proves doable on the N800, it will have a USB 2.0 host, vs the PMA's puny :p USB 1.1 host.

BTW, the H9 appears not to have Bluetooth on board. At least, it's not mentioned in the specs. Still, there is that antique PCMCIA slot (I wonder if it's PCCard compatible or the old 16 bit stuff). Maybe you can still find a CF Bluetooth card, because I'm not sure what else you're going to use that slot for.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

By the time the N900 is out, SDHC cards will be 16GB or more in size - why wish for power sucking HDDs when you can store all your data in battery friendly flash? Also consider the Bluetooth/WiFi equipped HDD companion devices such as the Bluonyx that will allow you to carry your data in centralised storage. I would say it is a given the N900 may use a more powerful CPU, perhaps an OMAP3 but I'm not sure it's necessary right now given the level of under utilised hardware already present in the N800 OMAP2 (IVA, PowerVR MBX). We can only hope Nokia see the light on USB connectivity.

If/when the N800 acquires better media playback, it may become your ideal one-stop device (with a couple of jumbo SDHC cards!) :)

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

I can't wait!

Out of pure misery I pumped a few P910i converted movies on my card and played them with Mplayer. It went surprisingly well -- or rather: not so surprisingly, given the appalling resolution and bitrates the P910 tolerates.

In any case: If there is anyone else on the planet who is still using the SmartMovie converter, those movies will play with Mplayer on the N800. You won't like it a lot, but they'll play.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Judging from the screenshot, it looks like the font they used is indeed a Chinese font (doesn't hint as well as the default fonts). So they should at least be able to display Chinese text; as for other Asian languages, and text input, who knows.

Very interesting development, especially as we can expect it to trickle back to the next Maemo software release.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Was it confirmed by the manufacturer that they use Maemo? Remember that some of them are masters of copycat productions.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

So far, I already found some problem with the unit.
http://www.pocketables.net/2007/02/new_h9_umpc_run.html
According to the spec. it's powered by PXA 270 CPU 520MHz, not too bad, I wished that my N800 have that cpu instead. It run on 64MB ROM, 128MB SDRAM. Hello, that sound link the 770 spec to me. And the N800 seem like a bare minimum spec to me. And that kind of RAM ain't gonna cut it. seriously 20GB HD, common make it 512MB ram would be useful. I can't seem to find any evidence that there will be a hardware MPEG4 decoder or anytype of hardware GPU, so I have to assume that it will not, considering the price point compared to N800. At the moment, eventhough it sound cool and all, but I think I'll pass on that. RAM seem like a bottle neck to me.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

It's only cheeky if they've forked it and don't release their changes.

Why would they have to be in partnership with Nokia (apart from the technical problems and assumption in the current Maemo codeset)? It's in Nokia's interest to get other parties using Maemo - even without their involvement; which is why Maemo is open source.

The pitch for Maemo is to build a portable UMPC/Internet Tablet OS out of open source components, whilst that's tied to Nokia hardware and software releases, it'll never take off. A cheap UMPC using the same OS, however, would be wonderful.

Indeed.

Cheers,

Andrew

PS. Why the separate thread? With the old version of the software, the news announcement would have gone into the existing thread. Any chance they could be merged?

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

I believe the OMAP2 320Mhz CPU in the N800 to be superior to the PXA270 520Mhz - they're different architecture generations and you can't compare clock directly. The OMAP2 2420 also has better hardware support - IVA, PowerVR MBX and DSP - I just wish Nokia made better use of them, or at least provided the information so that non-Nokia developers can help (bl**dy NDA's).

Yes, avoiding a fork - that's pretty much what I meant by being in partnership I guess, a poor choice of words. Anyone who uses Maemo should agree not to fork it, although that isn't possible to prevent if someone is determined to do so.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Good point.

Yeah. If I had the time to put in to it, I'd look into getting an NFS server on the PMA430 and an NFS client on the 770, so I could basically do that. No reason it wouldn't work, although given that I sometimes get my Internet connectivity via WiFi and sometimes via Bluetooth, arranging for the NFS link to be stable no matter what network I was on would be complicated.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

I'd be all for a harddrive in the N900... just make sure the OS boots off of internal memory and that the HDD is smart enough to stop spinning when not in use. Perfect for saving juice when need be.

Or back to my original stance of releasing battery powered hardware modules that work either via bluetooth or USB. (Want storage? Plug it in. Want a webcam? Plug it in. Don't want either? You'll still buy the base device. Everyone's happy.)

... of course that idea won't make it into the N900 which, by my calculations, should be released in two weeks featuring the amazing improvement of ultrablue LEDs under the buttons.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Hah! Feeling sarcastic, eh?

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

From what I've read over the years, HDDs use the most power when spinning up in which case the constant stop/starts that could result from powering down the HDD as often as possible may counter intuitively run down the battery faster than if it were left spinning longer to reduce spin up events.

Flash memory all the way... it's the future! :)

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Exciting ! Does it run ITOS2008 ?...

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Flash all the way is the only thing that makes sense. You can _replace_ flash, _upgrade_ flash, and it's inherently infinitely safer (try shaking your precious hard disk device, don't forget to pray).
With the HD stopping and starting all the time you get latency when opening files and starting applications (when the apps. are on the HD). This has been tried before, e.g. Palm Lifedrive (now discontinued, as a lot of people said would happen because it used a HD).

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Why would anyone copy the Hildon prison, we are so desparetly wanting to break out of?

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

<gratuitous_reference_to_classic_movie_mode>

Here's your glove and ball, Mr steve McPenguinbait.

</gratuitous_reference_to_classic_movie_mode> :D

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

When all else fails, MAKE YOUR OWN WAY!!!


http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...9&goto=newpost

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Out of interest, are you talking about find gradations of quality here, or fundamental problems with playback on the N800?

My experience is that the latest mplayer is fine on the N800 - with the IMO minor caveats that

- it sometimes hangs / gets confused if you pause playback for a long while (more than a minute)

- it sometimes gets stuck at the start of the playback - can be fixed by pressing the select button a few times.

With the N800's native Media Player, I find that it gets stuck for no apparent reason after 15 minutes or so.

- Neil

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

It stutters with almost every file (bar the lowest of lowest resolutions). This happens with media player and with Mplayer.

The media player is extremely picky, not only about file types but even about pixel numbers. WTF is that about? A media player that cannot scale???

Movies take an amazing time to start up.

Both media player and Mplayer will randomly hang for no apparent reason.

Neither player has a convenient way of resuming a stopped movie (my PMA has video bookmarking feature, and that's two years old!).

In short: The multimedia part of the device behaves as something that was designed ten years ago.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

I don't see this at all. I'm using the --preset=good option of 770-encode.pl; perhaps that's a significantly lower resolution than you are using?

Agreed here. Mplayer is better though.

Agreed here too - both Media Player and MPlayer.

With MPlayer I've never seen a hang completely out of the blue; only immediately after pressing some button. With Media Player I agree that it can hang for no reason.

I hadn't thought of that before, but it's a very good point. Bookmarking would be really useful.

The device(s) are innovative in other ways, though, so as long as it doesn't take ten years for the above problems to be fixed, I personally can live with them for a while.

- Neil

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

I only use Konttori's Media Converter at the moment, but I get the same stuttering in Mplayer, no matter what (supported) codec I use. Every so many frames, the N800 decides it will not show a couple of them, and then go back to normal business. It's very annoying.

But that's the point: Occasionally I want to push a button. This is a portable device, odds are movies are not going to be watched in one go, but in chunks of available (lost) time. Media players are supposed to be able to withstand the amazing stress of user interference. (that's sarcasm, by the way)

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Here is the Cebit YouTube video for the H9.

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news....html#comments

thaibill

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Alternative direct youtube link for the CeBit video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=dT0hK1TKkuA

Incredible - it even has the cheap dinner-plate stand that came with the 770!

The H9 seems incredibly cheap for what it is ($430 USD, 20GB, GPS, 7-inch screen etc. for 200+ pieces) and apparently it's available already, though the company rep didn't sound terribly convincing.

The UI does look very Maemo-like - I hope they "give back" some of their developments but their low-profile to date sugests this isn't likely. :(

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

http://www.porient.com/2006dn/index.html

It does seem strange that the Beijing Peace East Technology Porient H9 has only 64MB Flash ROM and 128MB RAM. That's the same memory config found in the 770, yet in every other respect they've maxed out the hardware functionality with a better (faster) Intel (now Marvel?) PXA270 520mhz XScale CPU (although in several respects I'd say this CPU is a generation behind that found in the N800).

Nice big 4000mAh battery though - going to need it with the 7" screen, GPS and 20GB HDD sucking down all the juice.

It's double the weight of the 770/N800, which is hardly suprising considering it has a much larger screen, battery and of course mechanical storage - to think my N800 has almost the same storage capacity as the H9 yet my 16GB of storage on 2x 8GB SDHC cards weighs nothing in comparison to the H9's 20GB HDD!

Will be very interested to see how this device fares - it's not likely to trouble Nokia in the immediate future as I guesstimate the H9 will retail for close to $600+ and is most likely a competitor for Windows-based UMPCs rather than ultra-light tablets. However if the H9 is successful, who is to say Beijing won't consider a reduced size H9 in future? :)

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

equally curious is the PORIENT H10, the more-robust 4x4 variant to the H9, running Windows CE.
Check the specs...

Ultra Mobile PC H10
　Features
◆ For outdoor job;
◆ 6.5" High luminance & contrast TFT screen. It can display clearly even in strong sun-light;
◆ Built-in High Sensitivity GPS system;
◆ Water-proof and dustproof outer design;
◆ Super capacity battery makes it possible to work outdoor for 8 hours;
◆ Support blue-tooth, SD socket, USB;
◆ CPU: Intel PXA270C520，OS:Windows CE 5.0，Full screen input by handwriting.

compared to the H9 specs:

Ultra Mobile PC H9
　Features
◆ Integrated with PDA/ PMP/ GPS / Wireless Internet Function in one;
◆ Wireless network connection (GPRS/CDMA/WIFI)，support MSN, built-in WEB Browser;
◆ GPS Navigation;
◆ Multimedia player, Flash player, Photo browsing & editing, Recording & Multimedia file manager;
◆ Mobile office: Name Card management, E-mail on moving, Office browser, PDF browser and so on.
　Technical Specifications
CPU Intel PXA270, 520MHz
O/S Linux
EMS Memory ROM: 64M Byte Nor Flash
RAM: 128M Byte SDRAM
Hard Disk 20G
Display 7" TFT LCD Display with back light.
Interface PCMICA Card,SD Card socket,USB,Earphone Jack,Power socket
Keys Power key, Volume, 5D Navigating Keys, 5 x Shortcut-Keys.
Battery Know-down & Rechargeable Lithium Battery, 4000mAh.
Power DC 5.0V± 10%,2.0A
Audio AC97, Built-in Speaker
GPS Hammerhead IC adopted, from Global Locate
Size 205x120x19 mm
Weight 500g

obtained at these slow-loading pages:
http://www.porient.com/2006dn/h10.html
http://www.porient.com/2006dn/index.html
http://www.porient.com/

on edit: H9 probably doesn't have bluetooth or wifi onboard, from the looks of the specs and the video. Both are probably available via "PCMICA" card, but whether they can run simultaneously (i.e. bluetooth keyboard and wifi internet at once) is a mystery...

dcarter

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

The H9 does have WiFi (according to the specs) but doesn't have Bluetooth - I guess the manufacturer believes BT is not necessary as GPS/GPRS/CDMA etc are built-in, however this does mean a hardware keyboard is more difficult to connect without a BT dongle of some kind (or maybe USB could be used).

Considering the CPU is ARM and the OS is Linux with fairly obvious inspiration from Maemo, I wonder if Beijing paid Adobe to "port" Flash to this device (which they have already ported for Nokia!) or if Beijing are using an open source variant?

Would also be interesting to see what browser they are using - Opera, NetFront or maybe Minimo? I can't imagine they will have succeeded in getting any "desktop" applications (eg. Firefox) to run on this device given the very limited memory constraints.

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

As far as China paying for adobe integration, and other such speculation, it is a fact that Chinese auto manufacturers "designed" and built a car so remarkably similar to the toyota corolla that their main arguing point in court was that their car had a different name than the corolla.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and, in an explosive emerging post-industrial economy such as that of China, things might not always be done according to hoyle...

Just some random speculation on my part.

dcarter

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Re bluetooth keyboards: as the H9 appears to have "full" usb, a BT keyboard isn't really necessary.

Re copying Maemo/Hildon: did Nokia copyright the look-and-feel of the ITOS? If not, power to the H9 as far as I'm concerned. Linux/OSS is supposed to be about sharing, copying and not reinventing the wheel over and over again.

Question: has anyone found out if the H9 has handwriting or character recognition software on board. And if so, what is it? And did they manage to find something more awful than the Nokia's character un-recognition?

Re: A maemo-ized UMPC
 

Details of the H9 with N800 side-by-side photos - it's huge! :) Also it's not running Maemo but it is Linux - I'm quite disappointed about that, actually. :(

The software seems unifinished and lacks polish - but hey, if Nokia can get away with it, why can't the Chinese? ;)

Summary from gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.user:

The price is also dropping - now less than $430 in quantities of 200, quite insane!