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-   -   Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia) (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46479)

timwatt 2010-03-04 15:07

Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
1) Lens cover creates uneven surface resulting in rocking when typing on a flat surface.
http://www.jdidesign.com/files-in/maemo/7c.GIF

2) Volume switch is upside down when in phone mode. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6384 (cant solve this with software – rotating it means the switch function is reversed making the hardware function inconsistent) strongly suggest consider for future models the volume rocker (or slider) to be on the bottom left in landscape mode.

3) Screen requires a more vertical angle (kick stand is inadequate.) this function is nice but could be provided by a well designed pouch (think first Palm V - one of the best ID PDA designs of all time.)

4) Easy access to the Micro SD card (without removing the back)

5) Charging / sync cable comes out the top (problem using the phone while hooked to a PC or charging)
http://www.jdidesign.com/files-in/ma...-the-phone.jpg

6) Lanyard comes out the top of the phone dangling in the way when using the n900 as a phone. Strongly suggest moving it to bottom right when in landscape mode.

7) Consideration for one handed operation - typical usage left or right hand thumb (primary input hot zone; UI should where possible always be one handed ) see Elce http://www.itechdiary.com/else-smart...-else-ltd.html and http://www.elsemobile.com its almost there.

8) Lock switch - requires 2 hands to turn off the screen should be a 1 handed operation. (this has been fixed by pressing power button twice in latest firmware) (typical a button of this nature would be used by the left hand thumb)

9) Screen could be bigger – see HTC HD2 (my bet is the typical n900 consumer wants web browsing GPS and possibly large screen for applications like rDesctop.) if the device was all screen it could still be a bit bigger. It looks like screen size is optimized to allow one hand thumb coverage, (a result better achieved through good UI design)

10) scream vibrate (Haptic feedback) is great but I can't feel it or hear it in a noisy environment. (it's like it was designed in ideal (quiet) lab conditions)

11) Lock switch - primary function stays the same but if I hold for 2 seconds it should have a second preset function like: Silent Mode or Off line Mode. Thanks there is a solution: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...149#post504149

12) Power button could be bigger. it feels a little gimpy.

13) Head phone jack should come out the top not the bottom, the n900 ID team can learn a lot from the Nokia Music phone ID team.

low life 2010-03-04 15:30

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Some of these are rather obvious - like the first one.. I don't understand how they managed to let that slip through the design process. This makes using the phone while it's sitting on a table very uncomfortable (something I'd like to do when I'm for example eating)

However, I find 5 and 13 to be conflicting. I can't speak for you, but I'm much more likely to be using the phone function with headphones attached than charger (nearly always charging during the night), and the headphone wire would be just as much in the way when talking on the phone. It's also much more natural to put the phone in my pocket "upside down", with the headphone jack staying on top - this way when I take it out it's instantly the right way in my hand. This also ensures the proximity sensor keeps the screen locked as long as it's in my pocket when receiving a call instead of opening it as soon as it peeks out.

To me the best configuration would probably be both connections at the bottom, but this is where limited space comes in.

pelago 2010-03-04 16:18

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
The non-flat underside wasn't something I thought of before I got the N900, and I agree it's annoying. I quite often used to type on my N810 with it flat on a table.

I agree the USB socket should be on the bottom for portrait mode, which would also make car mounting or a desk stand easier, so you could put it in a powered mount or stand in portrait mode.

As "low life" says, ideally both power and USB would ideally be on the same side, so that a mount/stand could plug into both sockets simultaneously, easily.

If I could add one more item re: industrial design: it's not worth adding two little bumps to the keyboard letters F and J if they aren't actually prominent enough to feel without looking at the keyboard! Personally I think they should just be removed, as I wouldn't want bumps that were so big they would hurt my thumbs after a while.

timwatt 2010-03-04 19:54

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pelago (Post 555677)
If I could add one more item re: industrial design: it's not worth adding two little bumps to the keyboard letters F and J if they aren't actually prominent enough to feel without looking at the keyboard! Personally I think they should just be removed, as I wouldn't want bumps that were so big they would hurt my thumbs after a while.

I hadn't see them before, I agree if you cant feel them they there is no point.

tissot 2010-03-04 20:06

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Camera part not being flat is something that i'am afraid wont be going anywhere.
People want slimm phones and at least here in Europe the megapixels still sell. I would anyways take the lens cover rather than flat back.

mrojas 2010-03-04 20:06

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Great job on defining all this!

timwatt 2010-03-04 20:26

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by low life (Post 555604)

However, I find 5 and 13 to be conflicting. I can't speak for you, but I'm much more likely to be using the phone function with headphones attached than charger

If you use the phone with the headphones attached you wont be holding it up to your face as the audio played through the headphones so your concern is not a problem. I have seen that all music phones have the headphone coming out the top and I think it is for good reason.

if my n900 held a charge all day i wouldn't keep it plunged in at work (I'm digging at Nokia) it manly happens when i sync my phone at work or if its charging at home and I answer a call.

sondjata 2010-03-04 20:33

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
people actually lay these things down flat to type?

AliB 2010-03-04 20:46

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
I agree on most parts. However, I disagree with:
Quote:

Originally Posted by timwatt
2) Volume switch is upside down when in phone mode.

How do you figure? To me, it's in the most logical position as is. The switch you're suggesting wouldn't really make a difference when in phone mode anyway, but it would make the volume rocker awkward to use in landscape mode. Hence why the current position is more logical to me. The only difference I see for phone mode is that if you hold the phone to your left ear you can change volume with your thumb instead of your index finger (and vice versa if you hold it to your right). But it makes no sense to move the button for that - both index finger and thumb work equally well for me, and there's no way to know which ear people will use the phone with anyway. In fact, I regularly swap which ear I use while I speak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sondjata
people actually lay these things down flat to type?

I'm equally surprised. It seems like it would be very awkward, regardless of how flat the backside is. But to each his own, I guess.

Finally, I have an additional suggestion to Nokia:
14) Move both the usb-jack and headphone-jack further up, in relation to lanscape mode. Presently, the cables are a bit annoying when using the keyboard.

timwatt 2010-03-04 20:48

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tissot (Post 556016)
Camera part not being flat is something that i'am afraid wont be going anywhere.
People want slimm phones and at least here in Europe the megapixels still sell. I would anyways take the lens cover rather than flat back.

totally agree, but the n900 is a brick not an E71. The function is being compromised, and the phone is as thick as the camera anyway. I say just recess the camera or make the battery a little bigger. to make it appear thinner look at the iPad or the Googles Nexus make it taper to the edge.

timwatt 2010-03-04 21:07

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sondjata (Post 556049)
people actually lay these things down flat to type?

I totally use it like a laptop when I have serious typing to do.

timwatt 2010-03-05 20:52

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tissot (Post 556016)
Camera part not being flat is something that i'am afraid wont be going anywhere.
People want slimm phones and at least here in Europe the megapixels still sell. I would anyways take the lens cover rather than flat back.

I was thinking about this as I guess I agree, so I did the maths to see what the consequenses are and well it is minuscule. Tacking the volume of the protruding camera and spreding it over the back of the phone adds less than 0.3mm.

So to reiterate i think 0.03 mm in thickness would not make the n900 any more brick like, but it would make it more clean (iphone like) and a lot more functional, edging a little closer to a computer like form function.

Texrat 2010-03-05 21:05

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
I have to admit that as a former product designer I cringed at some of the design decisions made on the N900. The camera lens protrusion and usb at the wrong end are the big ones for me.

I'm sure these weren't done without some sort of reasoning, but I sure can't see it.

As for the hardware lock switch, I find myself wanting it on the left side (with device oriented in phone mode and facing me). Plenty of room, and easy to use there.

timwatt 2010-03-05 22:10

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AliB (Post 556062)
I agree on most parts. However, I disagree with:

How do you figure? To me, it's in the most logical position as is. The switch you're suggesting wouldn't really make a difference when in phone mode anyway, but it would make the volume rocker awkward to use in landscape mode. Hence why the current position is more logical to me. The only difference I see for phone mode is that if you hold the phone to your left ear you can change volume with your thumb instead of your index finger (and vice versa if you hold it to your right). But it makes no sense to move the button for that - both index finger and thumb work equally well for me, and there's no way to know which ear people will use the phone with anyway. In fact, I regularly swap which ear I use while I speak.

I don't necessarily disagree, the position i described was on my Palm Centro and i found controlling the media player and phone volume practical, not that I am biased, I would just iterate inconsistency it is not acceptable for me to be pressing the one side of the rocker to increase the volume on a call and press the same side after a call decrease the volume on the media player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliB (Post 556062)
14) Move both the usb-jack and headphone-jack further up, in relation to lanscape mode. Presently, the cables are a bit annoying when using the keyboard.

thats a great idea it would also help the phone when fitting into many landscape phone covers.

timwatt 2010-03-07 02:56

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
one thing i love though is the little bezel on the screen, it protects the screen from scratching when face down.

cyeung 2010-03-07 03:49

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
I agree that the charge and sync ports should switch places. When taking video, I am often scared of dropping my phone, and it would be nice if the wrist strap eyelet was on the right side as opposed to the left.

ysss 2010-03-07 04:01

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
There are numerous ways to address the 'protruded camera area' issue... ie: you could add very thin rubber/foam pads on the edges, you can extend the protrusion areas toward the imbalanced side (Without thickening the whole case)..

Texrat 2010-03-07 04:02

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ysss (Post 558400)
There are numerous ways to address the 'protruded camera area' issue... ie: you could add very thin rubber/foam pads on the edges, you can extend the protrusion areas toward the imbalanced side (Without thickening the whole case)..

I'm seriously thinking of adding some rubber pads. The rocking on the table top makes me nuts. Plus that's one of the elements that naysayers snicker about when I show them the device...

pelago 2010-03-07 10:17

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 558402)
I'm seriously thinking of adding some rubber pads.

Sounds like a good idea. Although I worry they will peel off after a few weeks of inserting/removing from pockets.

timwatt 2010-03-08 03:39

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pelago (Post 558563)
Sounds like a good idea. Although I worry they will peel off after a few weeks of inserting/removing from pockets.

3M make some seriously sticky ones I will see if I can fins some the right hight. as this also drives me nuts and can be a neat solution.

siperkin 2010-03-08 03:51

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Personally I've never understood the lens cover, the N95 never had one and after a couple of years of abuse still doesn't have a scratch on it, plus it was easier to wipe clean.

timwatt 2010-03-08 18:54

Re: Industrial Design (some future considerations for Nokia)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by siperkin (Post 559416)
Personally I've never understood the lens cover, the N95 never had one and after a couple of years of abuse still doesn't have a scratch on it, plus it was easier to wipe clean.

good point, however the lens proximity switch i find to be quite intuitive in launching the camera application at an appropriate time. not to say pushing the dedicated camera button when the camera is off could be almost as intuitive.


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