N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Just found this on CNET Asia:

http://asia.cnet.com/crave/2010/03/1...able-to-meego/

Thanks a lot Nokia!

You just killed your flagship device! What are you going to be selling for the rest of the year until your first MeeGo device is released?

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Not another thread on rumours and here say

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

FUD?

I mean, wtf, N900 will be reference device for MeeGo. How is this not 'upgrade-able'?
:P

Go read http://meego.com/community/blogs/val...owards-day-one

Also, you are utterly insane if you think you can SSU your way to a different OS with different packaging. Which is what 'upgrade-able' usually means.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

What a shocker!

Same old same old from Nokia... they've dropped new expensive devices like this before and it would appear they're doing it again.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Read carefully!
Sure that !MAEMO! is not upgradeable to !MEEGO!
Bad comparison: but is OSX upgradeable to ArchLinux?
We already know, that meego programs will run on maemo and vice-versa. we also know, that a community driven version of meego is coming to the n900.
I don't see, where Nokia has killed it's flagship device (the N97 btw....). Also they haven't killed the N900.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

First saw this and thought "more FUD" but cnet are quite a trusted resource and the article seems pretty thorough.

Either way it doesn't make much difference to the current situation.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Seriously now. The N900 is the Top of the range device for Nokia and they should be promoting more than any device (along with the N97mini if they are planning on keeping Symbian).

By announcing something like this, they are putting people off from buying it. It's like telling people who want to buy a new phone "sorry, don't buy N900. go get yourself an iphone or an HTC coz our next good device will become available in 6 months...!" WTF! This piece of news is going to affect nokia sales big time.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

The quote said Maemo is not upgradeable, not that N900 will not run it. I never expected it to be delivered OTA.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

N900 will be reference device for developers, not users. The Nokia comment is clearly about end-user software.

Will "Meego" (code name Harmattan) on Nokia's first Meego device use different packaging? We seem to have other information here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=14

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

I already expected this. The N900 is my last Nokia. Why? Because next year if I buy a Nokia-Meego, after 4 months I do not want to risk having the same disappointment that I am having now. Well, but this is my opinion.

It is perfectly normal for a new phone every year, however, a new OS after releasing Maemo 5 just a few months ago, is sad. :(
----
Do not get me wrong, I love my N900, I want to spend at least 2 or 3 years with him. But if this is the rotation of the Nokia's OS (I hope not) I'll migrate to another platform. Of course, after taking all that my N900 can offer (and I know he has much to offer).

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Sooo... like... you didn't know there was going to be a new and improved device 6 months later?

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Well, I like Maemo 5, and as long as MeeGo apps come to the N900, I'm happy. Just stop worrying :)

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

It's not going to be just a new device. It's a brand new OS while dumping another brand new OS.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

[Harry Hill]

Hmmm, I like Maemo, but I also like Meego... but which is better?
Only one way to found out - FIGHT!

[/Harry Hill]

Apologies to non-UK people who won't have a clue what I am going on about here :D

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Not upgradeable? Dose it mean I'll need to flash my N900 instead of using OTA upgrade? :P

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

FUD, until more clarifying official statements come out...

- could mean that the upgrade is not available OTA, only reflashing
- could mean they'll deliver "Harmattan" (or whatever) soon for N900, not calling it "MeeGo", so, officially it's not MeeGo; when the "real" MeeGo comes out at the end of the year, the N900 could be not officially supported

anyway, applications should be pretty much compatible between all these versions, or with light modifications, so I don't see the issue... after all who bought the N900 knew what they were going to buy at that moment...

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

hehe...

The issue here is that Maemo 5 was billed as an open OS (which it is on the whole) and Nokia's next big direction with their devices. This implied certain things, including that as this platform was actually properly updateable and wasn't locked into things like Symbian "Feature Packs", it would evolve along with the Maemo 5 product range.

Now there is no Maemo 5 product range and even though capable, seems like the N900 is not going to be officially supported with MeeGo which is effectively what has stunted Maemo 5.

The comparison should be with something like the iPhone, which has received the major OS updates - which is the right way to treat customers. Or, conversely WinMo devices which don't. Again though, if you must compare this situation to desktop OS releases - with those at least you get significant warning and the ability to pay for an upgrade (even free on many recently released devices which come just before new OS releases). Nokia are not offering anything of the sort and much asx I love the N900, had I known a new device and platform was coming so soon I'd just have waited for it - but they don't communicate these things with customers, hence such high levels of frustration on the various Nokia related forums.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Mh if this proves to be true it certainly will be the last time I'll ever buy a Nokia device again.:mad: As for now I remain positive in the hope that Nokia will do something unexpected.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

I'm not sure if you have been following N900 before the release. It has been talked many times here before. N97 is still Nokias number one and the one that's selling in millions while being more expensive than N900.

In Nokia World 2009 they downplayed N900 that was talked here quite alot. N900 became so popular because of blogs and what not heavily advertising it.
Nokia's second largest factory is in Finland, Salo and it only makes high end phones and all previous flagships have always been made there(N97 is made there too). N900 East Korea factory hasn't been able to keep up with the demand... because Nokia didn't expect and maybe not event wanted N900 yet to be huge seller.
There's 10 N97 ads more for every N900 and i don't think that's just a coincidence. I don't know how many of the new members here have heard N900 being 4th step in 5 step plan, but that was the main thing Nokia let out in the 2009 about the N900.

I buy 1-2 phones every year so it's no wonder i don't really care all about this, but just led all that out.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

the issue here is. Nokia knew a lot of people were paranoid and worried about it, but cnet got the info first???? o well what do you do. Nokia lol

o the iphone 2g, 3g, 3gs ipad are getting 4.0 firmware soon :D

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Those who are worried about not being able to get harmattan or meego on the n900 - by the time you'd want to switch the software you'll also want to upgrade the hardware. The n900 is already behind the times and in 6-12 months will be more of a brick than it already is. the mobile phone platform is succinctly different from the desktop platform and people should not think about the two as parallel.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Is it that hard to understand that most people do not buy a new 600 Euro phone every year?

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

The hard to understand is why people are so inclined to jump to conclusions and throw around childish threats without ever bothering to READ and UNDERSTAND what an article is saying. Ditto for bloggers who have trouble interpreting a sentence in English that has less than 10 words.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Certianly not to me! I don't know if it works differently outisde the UK but here, most people get their phone as part of a contract. The standard is now 18 months but shops/networks are steadily pushing 24 months here to become the norm. Expecting a BRAND NEW phone to stay current for at least half of that period is far from unreasonable!

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Attilla: I tend to agree with you, but then I read the following from someone on your side of the issue:

"Nokia are a business and have chosen a path of using the OSS community phenomenon to reduce their overheads specifically after sales support and development. There are no big enhancement requests coming for the N900 so don't bother going on about it. You want it, you code it"

That is a message to people who bought the N900 that it's time for them to become developers because support for the N900 is going to disappear soon.

Do you agree with that message or not?

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Despite all the detailed refutations (denials?), the main point here I think is pretty clear:

...some users are questioning the value that Nokia delivers through the N900, compared to other competitors or industry 'benchmarks' in this section of the market. (User's experience of the device, 3rd party support of the device, developers support, availability and activity of online marketplace, continued support thru OS iterations, etc, etc).

Obviously, many users overshoots their expectations of Nokia... and this is something that Nokia has to take some pride in that they've managed to do so(?). Although personally, I don't understand this, because Nokia hasn't had the track record to back this up in the past. But it's a worthy praise from the users, nonetheless.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

For those that say "this will be my last Nokia device" I have just one thing to say: good bye, you wont be missed here...

Nokia never showed intentions in updating N900 with Harmatan, now I know that it is because they knew that MeeGo was in the oven.

I bought this device because I thought as a good platform to develop for and I wanted to take a quick look. If you were a lousy consumer and didnt investigate enough what were the promises for device X and you still blame Nokia for it? Well, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Coming back to the topic, I will keep my N900 and I will most probably buy the next MeeGo device, unless something better comes along...

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

did you even read the article?!?

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

well, N900 wasn't a phone for those people at the first place...

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

you didn't read the article, did you?


o what about proper multitasking that has been rumored?
only device that has hw for it is 3gs.....

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

selling mine.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

lol apple do things the right way. clear simple and everyone gets support. obviously the iphone is not for me but i want the support it has. this is going to be bad for resale vaule, so if your going to sell, sell now!

i still see people here in australia with old 2g iphones with new firmware. easy. btw i will still buy nokia, no dout about that and i will keep the n900. love this baby

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

I don't understand why everybody ist expecting MeeGo to run on the N900.
Have you ever had a phone where you were able to run a totaly new OS?

And why do you wanna run MeeGo on N900? Maemo5 is a great OS!
Also programms that will be devoloped for MeeGo will run on the N900 with Maemo5.

So what's the problem?

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

For you people who don't believe in Meego on the N900.....

Hey there! And welcome to MeeGo project on my behalf too. In this post written on behalf of the MeeGo Technical Steering Group I will address some of the top questions on everybody's mind and written all-across meego.com by now. By doing so, I also will outline the first concrete steps to get the core of the software work on foot by all of us together, including various mobile computing companies and individual members of moblin and maemo communities.

But let me first introduce myself: My name is Valtteri Halla. I am the Nokia member of the currently two-person Technical Steering Group (TSG) of MeeGo. A Nokia old-timer already since '97, I lately used to introduce myself to Ari Jaaksi's new team-members: I have spent >75% of my Nokia career in bringing Open Source and Linux to Nokia and >50% of my adult life on the same mission. So, I guess I might be a bit biased :-)

And now to the business: The most important question is of course about the code. We hope to move on here very quickly now. Nokia and Intel have set the target to open the MeeGo repository by the end of this month. I guess this is something that finally will signify the real "Day One" of MeeGo project, a genuine merger of moblin and maemo. What is scheduled to be available then is the first and very raw baseline to a source and binary repository to build MeeGo trunk on Intel ATOM boards and Nokia N900.

While code is certainly the most important question, the most frequently asked, however, has been about technology selections. The big ticket items like Qt, OBS and RPM were already communicated at the launch and as we expected, kicked off a few small avalanches of debate! These selections were, of course, pre-agreed and I can assure you that the amount of effort spent in resolving these was not small. After all, these are the points driving most of the investment cost and transition pains for Nokia, Intel and the Moblin and Maemo communities. Further selections are mostly still under discussion and beyond a few obvious ones (X, connman, ofono, gstreamer, dbus,...) can be considered as working assumptions for MeeGo 1 release. Now that the internal responsibilities within Intel and Nokia are becoming clear I expect that the people behind these selections and assumptions will start appearing in meego.com pages, mailing lists and wikis during the coming days.

Once we just get going the objective is to have all of the MeeGo platform work fully in public. During the last few years both Nokia and Intel have learned that the success of moblin and maemo R&D mode fundamentally comes from the Open Source way of openness and MeeGo is a huge further commitment on this path. MeeGo will be a complete yet not entirely productised Linux distribution, it is fully Open Source in code and in process. What will our computers, and the whole world for that matter, look like when constraints of engineering resources and software innovation go away with standard pure Open Source becoming the default in mainstream computing products?

The final thing for this post is about practices of getting the open way of working off the ground. Here I would really like to ask for your help and co-operation. This is critical and this is always a challenge for big new projects. Thanks to starting points from moblin and maemo, it should not take that long for MeeGo. Both Intel and Nokia teams have considerable experience in openness and open source skills are becoming quite commonplace nowadays. Still, there are some bumps to be expected: MeeGo is supposed to go beyond its parents in openness. Also, MeeGo is not just a combination of the existing moblin and maemo teams but it also means that much much more people from Intel, Nokia and other companies will get involved as open source makes its inroads to device business mainstream. Yet MeeGo operations are expected and designed to be completely transparent - R&D in the public internet! This is still a baffling proposition to many. Some do not want to do it, some do not dare, many do not know how to. We still have a trainload of openness virgins here! Herding the teams to go public will be a big task for Imad, me and others, no doubt. So, this is where we need your help. Please make this happen with us by maintaining constructive dialogue, together finding out the MeeGo way-of-working and being patient and encouraging with newbies not to scare them back inside corporate firewalls. BTW, I find it very encouraging to read meego-dev and notice many maemo veterans like Nils, Carsten, Randy and many others doing exactly this already. You guys get it. And I am very excited to know that with moblin community there will be equally big legion of talented people I have an opportunity and privilege to meet soon. This talent is, after all, fundamentally the thing why most of us believe MeeGo will grow to become great and why we are so passionate about our M*:s and not some other technology for mobile computing, right? :-)

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Are you sure? I know about Qt, but if Nokia change every 6 months the hardware issues of his newest devices? Every developer will be interested only in developing apps for newest OSs.......

How can we be sure that MeeGo apps will work on N900???

I used to have E90 - the same thing from Nokia - 4 updates in 1,5 year and bye-bye!
Now N900 - same issue.

I am very disappointed AGAIN!

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

from the QT homepage:
Qt allows you to write advanced applications and UIs once, and deploy them across desktop and embedded operating systems without rewriting the source code saving time and development cost.

Most programs written for Maemo, Moblin and in the future for MeeGo are written with QT and are opensource. So you can use the existing code and port it very easily for n900.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

Hello Valtteri Halla, thank you for posting here to clarify a few things. I am sure you answered a lot of questions people had with your single post alone.

While I embrace open source development, especially Meego and your idea of open source , I am still worried what this will bring to my n900, which is in serious danger of being dropped by Nokia all along. If this will eventually happen, together with a non-release of Meego for the n900, a few people (including myself) will be very mad at Nokia for leaving us standing in the cold and certainly draw their conclusions from this.

As I said, I happily embrace all sorts of developments which will lead us to a more approachable and open-sourced piece of software in the upcoming years, but at the moment I am merely a customer who is worried about what is going to happen to my n900 and whether it will have a future or not. And this is what this thread is about.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

I don't think you understand what Qt means.

An app developer will write an app using Qt and it will run on all Qt enabled devices (with a simple recompile if the arch changes). This means that the developers won't target specifically MeeGo 1 but Qt, giving them a much larger market.
The same app will run on the n900, the MeeGo based successors (and MeeGo based TV screens, toasters and coffee machines) as well as on newer Symbian phones.

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

my last nokia phone (most likely)...htc here I come.... :'(

Re: N900 NOT upgradeable to MeeGo
 

people really need to stop confusing things by saying n900 is being dropped,
its been mentioned 100x now by quim that there is many updates in the works for Maemo5 on N900.
So even if the N900 gets full version of MeeGo or not it still as a future with Maemo 5 updates, so it as not been dropped by anyone or for anything.