"Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Has anybody already posted http://conversations.nokia.com/design-by-community/ here?

Sounds like an interesting exercise for the average Talk contributor.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

been there, done that added bookmark to page :-D

Looks like an interessting idea and who knows what will come out of this.

Regards,
Glasswalker

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

I'm impressed.
So many hardware designs but story of Apple shows that there is no need for zilion of devices "for everyone".
I see this now as need for software development.
Hardware performance of different devices tend to become similar and software makes the real difference.
That's only my point of view but now I see that I can select different devices that meet or almost meet my expectations from the hardware side, the thing is I don't like using WM phones and what I read about android makes me bit sceptic.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Hm, I'm not sure how valuable the results will be since it won't let you submit your preference if it thinks it's "too way out there" (such as if you select N810-like specs for example).

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

this will get us a capacitive screen I fear... multitouch sucks where ever I meet it...

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

It's an interesting exercise, but doesn't allow enough flexibility in my opinion. But then, I used to be a consumer product designer... :D

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

4" resistive, 16:9 screen, qwerty keyboard without secondary buttons... RUNNING MEEGO!!!!
:D

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

I wish I knew what the "Secondary buttons" choices meant, as I don't feel I can vote without knowing. Several people have posted comments on that page asking.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

I assumed since it's a slider from "Power only" it'll be additional HW buttons, like volume, locks slide, media buttons, etc.

To me it's simple. Full QWERTY, resistive. Pump everything else in screen size and quality. I think N900 would have been perfect if the screen was phone-size (save from a small band for sensors on top).

I miss a "cool" features checkbox thingy where I can check temp sensors, USB host, maybe dual accelerometers and a RJ45 port :)

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

But the choices are "Hot key only" and "Hot key + one touch" - I have no idea what those are!

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

This isn't "Design by Community" it is "Design by Community within the Parameters we're comfortable with"

You can only "vote" for a design that falls within the green zone. My vote would be for a 4" screen, resistive, QWERTY, hot key + one touch, 16x9. Oops, sorry keep tweaking, that's too far out there. Let me vote for it anyway. Maybe, just maybe, Nokia might find out that what they think is too far out there is what people want.

Or, how about a 5" screen, QWERTY, hot key only, 16x9? Only with non-touch screen. I guess I want a netbook with a 5" screen?

What do you want to bet, the device that comes out of this is 3.5" screen, capacitive, standard keypad, hot key only, 16x9? (dead center of the good zone)

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Why is 16:9 such a drain anyway? Format factor consumes power?

Any why are hardware buttons such a demanding business? Addin two mouse buttons weigh the same as another centimeter of touchscreen goodness?

Also, if I had a choice, I'd leave out other stuff I marginally use or like - the parameters there are great for marketing, but not incredibly so for a user. E.g. if it has the 5" capacitive (which I don't want) and qwerty but runs Apple OS it's an iPad and I don't want it.

OS, App base, size, battery, etc, all of there can outweigh things like screen size and technology. If someone came and "upgraded" my N900 to 5" capacitive and removed the keyboard there'd be blood. Or some Symbian with no VNC and SSH and VPN (yet).

Maybe a survey like "What would you give up to have capacitive" with checkboxes would be more informative.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

I'd settle for a survey of actual users that asked:

Have you used capacitive?
Have you used (modern) resistive?
Which do you prefer?
Why?

I honestly think too many people vote for capacitive based on an experience of resistive that is several years out of date or just because certain industry bloggers tell them it's superior. Personally, if all phones go capacitive, I shall be nursing my n900 into my (and its!) dotage.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

I also prefer resistive. Bit ashamed to admit that I logged from few differrent IP adressess and voted for resistive. :o

Every industry player besides Nokia seems to have allready abondoned resistive. Noticed on S^3 feature list that Symbian 3 will support multi-touch on both capacitive and resistive displays. That gives me little hope that Nokia isn't completly giving up resistive screens. Also hoping that chinese economy keeps growing. That will give chinese and their logographic writing, which really requires stylus on touchscreens, more purchasing power.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

I think the future will be resistive multitouch.
Just because everything can be used to touch the screen and the actual touchscreen resolution is far superior.
If you haven't seen already check out the videos from Stantum. They're doing a AMAZING job. Their resistive multitouchscreens can actually used with a brush! How cool is that?

As some may know, I'm currently building a MultitouchTable. (A video of an early version on my youtube-channel)
There I'm using Infrared emitters and Infrared cameras. These are better on tables, because you can use fiductual markers (something like barcodes) to let the table know what you've putted on the table. For example a glass of wine. The table will now project more information about the wine around the glass.
Sorry for a little bit offtopic... ;)

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Isn't it possible to have both, like resistive touchscreen underneath and thin capacitive screen top of it?
And yes, I have let people with iPhone 3GS to try my N900, and they still think the touch sensitivity is not enough. They do appreciate the sharp accurate touches with the stylus though.

And multitouch, I think is no more dependent on what touch technology is in use, capacitive or resistive.

I like N900 very much, but I would improve it by having separate battery door from lens cover, so 3rd parties could more easily provide bigger battery to it. While on redesigning the back cover, I would put microSD-slot accessible without opening the shell.
Yeah, USB should work in OTG-host mode. I miss digital compass which is in N97. Also DVB-H, which is in N96, would not hurt.

And Meego as an OS, which should have Java support, both SE and ME., as I've written in http://meego.com/developers/getting-started#comment-132

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

the sensitivity of the statum touchscreens is unbelieveable... as I said, you can use actually brushes! no need for capacitive anymore..

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

SURE! I'd like a phone with all those parameters maximized - the difference between me and you, is that I'll actually BUY IT when such a phone will be available.
Why such a difference? because a phone like this would cost A LOT, and you sir, back in your degenerated US cellphone market, would probably whine that it costs way above the "regular" 199$ that you're used to pay for a phone at your carriers.
Unfortunately, Nokia tries to obtain a grip in the US cellular market so they have to consider this variable in their equation so in this survey they use this "meter" thing as a way of telling you to keep it real - so, would YOU buy a phone which would cost 1000$ or more? I think not, then please stop whining about it...

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

oh wow!
did you had a bad day?

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Nokia has patented such a thing. Although the layer order might be reversed-- I don't remember. ;)

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

3.5", Resistive, QWERTY, On/Off switch(should have choosen Hotkeys only, whatever that means), 21:9
That would be great. And Blu-ray support, so we can actually use the 21:9 screen :p

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Reversed order seems likely. Resistive screens have two layers that need to be pushed together by pressure. Capacitive glass layer propably doesn't have have enough elasticity to sit on top.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

No, just sick and tired of people whining about this specific matter - they will want the uber-ultimate cell phone with a full HD 10 inch capacitive screen, with 5TB of internal storage and the ability to create purple space horses in a click of a button - but when someone actually makes this device, they start whining about that it's too expansive... (there's no "facepalm" smiley in the smiley list on the right, so imagine I put one here).

Not Nokia's, but still exists :)
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/...tive_touch.php

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

BTW this is also possible to get the green spot:

and this post claryfies that

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

That resistive multitouch screen, not fusion of resistive and capacitive which was discussed on your quote.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

There have been resistive glass touch screens in the past, even in commercial PDAs, but yes, sensitivity sucked.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

http://conversations.nokia.com/design-by-community/

this is a very interesting marketing tool as it forces you to design a new unit, to a budget, and prioritise what you feel is important. It will give Nokia - and anyone else who sees the results - a really good idea of what is actually important to users - not just the constant whining that the most recent must have is missing. - Choose wisely!

it pushes you into a position were you have to decide on what is actually important rather than just saying you want "blah blah blah" - inset perfect design specs regardless of cost

very clever piece of research!

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Yes, which is what I voted for, of course according to Nokia, that is almost way out there!

My complaint, which everyone seems to have missed, is not that I can't design a super duper mega deluxe ultra, expensive phone that I wouldn't buy anyway ,)

It is that Nokia gave us a great big sandbox to play in for "Design by Community", then cordoned off a small area in the middle that Nokia is comfortable with as acceptable. If they were really looking for a "new" way to go based on community input, they'd ahve allowed submissions outside the good range, just to see.

The link to the article proves it. They were shocked that anybody would want one of the bigger screens! I seriously doubt that capacitive was "universal", leading by a very large margin, yes, universal no. As we know, the next Maemo/MaeMeeGo/MeeGo device is going to be capacitive multi touch. It would reflect badly on the design dept if capacitive won by anything less than a "universal" landslide :eek:

Typed on my $199+$199+$199 US bought N900 :rolleyes:

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

I guess by definition no one wants an iPad or Kindle.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Sounds similar to a patent by RIM?

http://gizmodo.com/5330514/rim-paten...sistive-screen

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Design by Community - moving on to Size and shape:
http://conversations.nokia.com/design-by-community/

I don't know why Nokia believe a big flat Monoblock less than 10mm with a sliding lens cover is not ambitious enough.

Nokia is the above speck is too boring it needs to be 1cc and attached to my glass frame and beam HD content into my eyes to create 3D augmented reality.

HTC seem to be getting it right.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

I'm getting pretty disillusioned with these polls. By not letting us vote for the "not ambitious enough" or "way out there" designs, they are scewing their results to the middle-of-the-road.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Oh dear it's even worse.

Why is a slide QWERTY not enough? I HAVE to make it <11 mm? I hate thin phones, I never have the grip. They look like ping-pong paddles.

Leave it in the Brick form factor and cram stuff in. Here's a thought: use the difference for a battery. Or storage. Or a secondary SIM. In fact, here' more: High-speed WIFI. RJ45 or slimmed down version with adapter. PS/2 connector. Physical normal-size USB. Dual accelerometers. Compass. Finer accelerometer. High-speed storage. RAM. Dual CPU. Secondary display. Secondary camera for stereoscopic imagery. Better optics. Zero-lux camera. Larger keys. More keys.

I need to chill.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

the phone is already dead to me, capacitive doesnt work with thick skin, and i work outside a lot so my hands have become callous to reflect that. this is unacceptable. capacitive is also FAR, FAR less accurate.

contracting stantum for their resistive screens would have been a much better idea. i feel that the apple has corrupted a perfectly good technology. its remarkable how well the screen works in the 900, its so easy to use and fluid. but whatever this design by community does from here on out will neigh have my support. a true shame.

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

In fact apple has shown that the 'model T Ford' approach has huge benefits and enables third party accessory makers to create an ecosystem around your product.

I hope Nokia realises that trying to produce a phone format for everyone means that there are so many models that all are less useful to everyone than the single form factor with a huge support of accessories.

The n900 is a great form factor- stick with it. Make the battery bigger and fill the whole front with display over time. But get all you can out of the one form factor and allow the accessory market to boom

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

My ideal form factor is also very close to what the N900 is. Just give me a slimmer phone and I'll be a little happier. Although there's nothing wrong with larger ladies... :)

I don't think that anyone has one single type of dream phone that will satisfy all their needs. I for example crave phones like the X10 and HD2, but after drooling a while reality hits me in the face and reminds me of the on-screen keyboards. And I go back to lovin' my N900. So practicality goes beyond looks for this forums dweller.

I voted for 4" resistive qwerty goodness. :) Am waiting for poll to include chance to say batteries from play phones (5800) shouldn't make it into "real" smart phones. :)

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Actually, playing with the 'design by community' tool exposes that someone is playing clever to appear to have endorsement for their own design parameters.
For example. I enter my actual preferred design and am greated by 'keep tweaking' - I cannot press submit.
Change 'automatic lens cover' and i can submit the design. Now i actually dont like the idea of an automatic lens cover as i feel manually opening the lens cover to activate the camera is better.
But the design i like cannot be submitted, so in order to submit a design i must select a parameter which is not my actual choice!

So at the end of the process there is a lot of data indicating 'people preffered x vs y' giving the appearance than people all indicate they desire certain features.....however designs must be compromised in order to be able to press submit.

For an example, more designs can be submitted with an automatic lens cover than with a manual design. My own submission must either state i prefer an automatic lens cover or i cannot enter any vote at all---- even though i actually oppose an automatic lens cover!!
I wonder if the votes for a capacitive touch screen had the same 'vote rigging'???

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

As for capacitive screens.
I was somehow a big fan of capacitives, thinking that my tablet's resistive is inferior.
That was until I've had HTC HD2 in my hands.
With low resolution displays like on Iphone and of course with UI designed for fingers only - it's more than OK, but HD2 with it's WM (even with modified HTC interface) is not very friendly.
High resolution and small switches/buttons etc scream to me "use Your nail" - and oops - I can't use one... I have to cover a large number of pixels behind my fingertip and believe that I'll make the right press/slide action.
I'm cured off capacitveness ;)

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

http://conversations.nokia.com/design-by-community/

Just to keep you thinking about Nokia ideal device, the next stage of Design my Community is up, it looks like the there are no holes bared when it comes to the enclosure.

BTW, Nokia, I want mine ruggedized with elegantly designed over moulded elastomer corners. (to ease my pain as suffering when I drop it on concrete. which I seem to do about once a month)

Re: "Design by Community - smartphone concept" at Nokia Conversations
 

Thought control? Me or the phone?