(Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Hello everyone,

I wanted to get an idea out there.

None of my electronics work with QtIrecco.
I know the IR port of the n900 doesn't support input, but the n900 has two cameras. These cameras can easily pick up IR.

How difficult would it be to read a remote's IR signal using a camera built in the n900 and perhaps making a config file for QtIrreco?

I would envision that there would be crosshairs overlaid on the camera's view and that it would read the brightness from that point so that you could center the remote on that point. A threshold algorithm could be used to convert the brightness into a digital signal. It may work better in dark places, but it would be super useful to me.

I do not have the ability to code the above, but was hoping that someone else might be able to do it.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

It seems possible. I just tested the camera with the IR Remote Control of my TV set and it showed a bright white light when I pressed the button. We'd just have to know if the camera is fast enough to get the frequence emitted by the IR Control to "train" it for our purposes.

This would be of great use since I have a handful of Remote Controls which are not registered in lircdb.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

The cameras pick up the signals from all my remotes as well.
The remotes don't seem to be blinking that fast, so I think it can be done, but it may be an optical illusion.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

This would be very good as none of my controls are supported either

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Wow, great idea. Now all we need is someone who can actually do it.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Someone has mentioned before that at 30fps there is no way the camera can read the data fast enough for such purposes.

Lets put it this way, 30fps = about 30Hz, 1Hz = 1 cycle per second so 30 frames would be thirty cycles per second.

Standard consumer IR devices however have modulation speeds of 35-38kilohertz, or about what, a thousand times faster than the camera is capable of seeing.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

guess what ?
none of my controlers are supported either....

i'd really like this learning codes feature !

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

The camera may be 30 fps, but I believe that the pixels are updated at different times. If you pull the data from the pixel level instead of the frame level, won't you have enough temporal resolution? For example, if you aim a remote control at the camera, you'll have millions of pixels updating at different times, won't you?

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

None of my remotes is supported either, but I have a USB IR receiver/transmitter for my PC. What's the easy path to capture the signals and get the configuration onto N900 qtirreco? I tried looking at lirc, but couldn't figure it out, besides, I'd rather do it on Windows...

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

wtf?? ir port dont support input?? so i am not able to send pics from an old phone with ir only to my n900?!? sry but how stupid is that??

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Good point.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Non of my devices are supported too:(

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Why is it stupid, most modern smartphones dont have ir ports atall, and the reason is because even when ir ports supporting IrDA were included on practically all phones, bugger all anyone used them.
What's the point in nokia spending time/effort/money developing support for a slow, crummy old file transfer method that isn't included on most other modern phones either?

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Well it is a seriously old protocol, most modern phones don't even have an IR port on them! Have you thought about transfer via bluetooth?

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

The 35-38 kHz frequency is a carrier, you don't need to be able to detect that. The carrier is modulated (switched on and off) at a much lower frequency.

I just checked one of my remotes: The shortest "carrier on" times were about 180 µs, followed by "carrier off" time of 900 µs. No, I don't think you could capture these accurately using a camera. (Interesting idea, though.)

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

this is not my point.... why they are building things only half into the n900??

when i say to my plumber i want a second sink in my bathroom...
then he installs a sink.... but when i try to wash my hands and there is no water... and i call him and ask him why there is no water... what would he say??

an ordinary plumber would say he comes the next day and will check what is wrong...

and a nokia plumber would say "that sink does not support water"

for what is the ir port good when it is not working??

just for the devs??

what will be the next step? a phone/tablet with gsm chip but no ability to call someone?? like when you can code a phone app you can call someone??

or a phone/tablet without os??
customer: hy i just bought my nokia N12000 an it showes me only a nokia logo and then it turns off...
nsc: have you already coded an os and flashed it into the device??

i love nokia... but why they dont finish their work??

half work is always crappy.... and like you sayed .... its an old technologie.... it wouldnt be such a problem to add the input ability...

greetz

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

The point of the IR was to provide transmit ability. IrDA was replaced with bluetooth so why would you need both.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

The IR port is working. It's a transmitter, and there are several applications that make use of it. IrDA is ancient, it's dead, why do you assume that just because it doesnt do what you out of all the world want it to do that it doesn't work at all?

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Just putting the hole in the chassis must be more expensive than putting a proper IR receiver in there. I too have to wonder what was the idea behind this....

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Using the speakers and mic to pass information as morse audio would have been cheap too: pointless in the current age but cheap.

The IR emitter is to allow the N900 to control legacy items, not to provide a seriously outdated protocol

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

why does everyone underestimate the value of compatibility? Ok irDA is old and dated but still some recent cheap nokia phones have irDA, and it is the only means to transfer the contacts etc. from them.
Recently sb wanted to transfer his data from his 2 year old nokia to the new one. The old had only IR the newer only BT. No way to do it until my N95 came to the rescue.
I wouldn't complain if a new phone lacked IR, ok I understand, any additional hardware is expensive adds to size and weight. But once the N900 has the port why can't it be a tranceiver?
Also having a feature for developers only is like not having a feature to most of the people. Imagine if you bought a laptop with a webcam but no drivers for it. It will appeal to some users (most of us on this forum) but there are lots of people who own a N900 but do not have either the knowledge, the time, or the will to drill down and search for applications to enable each hidden feature they paid for on their device.
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Vaporizer wiki

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

For the people using Qtirreco and their device isnt supported i remember i found some working remotes in the letter U at universal... I was probably lucky, but you can try it too. I think i used sth like SupportPlus... Cant tell more because i reflashed and i havent installed it again...

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

legacy, outdated, ... sound the same to me. I don't understand why they'd spend the $ for the IR hole (even though I very much like it I cannot really justify it), and I understand even less why they'd put the hole and not the sensor.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

So no simcard, pop port then? IrDA is a dead standard. There is more to providing IrDA than just a receiver. There is also the daemon, power drain etceteras. All this for novelty and something that has been replaced years ago by the integrated Bluetooth. Maybe we should expect Latin spell checker too as the letters are present on the keyboard?

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

That is an argument I must say. I think latin is dead a little longer than irDA though. No simcard? what backword compatibility would that serve? Pop-port was never a standard.
We do have 802.11b though, even if it's dead. We do use FAT32.
Nokia phones never had a daemon for IR, you had to fire it up to start receiving.
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Live Sex

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Ok, it's not the end of the world.

There are online databases of IR commands for various remote controls (remotecentral.com, pronto ccf database, etc) that we can make use of.

We just need to translate/convert those formats into something that is useable by the remote app on N900.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

lol nice point. i like having ir transmit, its cool, and anything i have to receive via ir is probably going to be available faster and better via other means (that said a bus stop once ir'd me a voucher for 10% off at next, i never used it but thought it was damn cool too!)

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

You could copy the contacts to the sim card nd move them across that way.
Pop-port was the standard for quite some time with Nokianes. It was hoped that it would be the only port that they would need in future.
802.11b is still a live standard and a version of the same technology, bluetooth was a direct replacement for IrDA functionality. FAT32 is a current standard largely due to Mass Storage devices and Microsoft.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

1. He had more than 200 contacts, they cant fit on the sim-card. You can not do it two times because you don't know which ones get copied, and there is no mass deletion on older S40's
2. More than one phone per contact cannot fit on the sim card
3. Greek character names get truncated to about 6-7 chars on sim cards, short enough to lose all the important info

I think we have a different conception of what a live standard is
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ASIAN_SEREDIPITY live

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

even at the pop-port ages, half nokia phones did have other type of ports (or didn't have a port at all). Anyway pop-port does provide backward compatibility only with your usb cable. IR provides communication with a variety of older devices as well as the possibility to really exploit the transmitting function (record new remotes on the fly)

Anyway, if it is not for communication why is that port even there? Controlling your tv isn't probably what the developers were thinking, it's to awkward to point that side of the device to the TV and the range is too short.
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Pattaya Heights Condos

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

exactly.

if you have 5mpix and you only need 4 red ones (with right circumstances) so it could be possible. depens on buses etc though.

but if data read&transfer isn't the limiting part, you'll get 4mpix 30fps > 4pix 30kHz (so above 30kHz with 5MP)

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

the guy who didn't do his research before buying is the stupid one.

n900 has remote ir tx, typical phone has irda.

imo it is great that I don't have option to wait a month if one wants to send me a picture via irda.....


e: and I suggest that you buy E -series phone if you need ir data transfers

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

1. yes it was. otherwise it would have been irda.....

2. well, I'm typing now in livingroom and 10 degree tilt aligns the port directly to the televisions receiver....

3. the range is significantly longer than with irda

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Range doesn't have anything to do with IrDA ability (unless the controller is foobar). Case in point, my m130 has more range than my N900 (the first one's IR port being primarily designed for IrDA but also capable of CIR), while on the other side the Palm T|X range sucked.

Also, missing a receiving port pretty much kills the remote use case for the majority of users (no learning). So again, pondering and pondering why is the thing there....

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Your equivalent to the bus stop now is bluetooth. It is used sometimetimes in conjunction with RFID too. The cheper alternate is the square images used to encode data streams for url's etceteras. In this scenario IrDA wasn't sensible as dirty or someone breaking the bam caused issues.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

Pop port used to be used for several types of devices, not just usb.

The stated reason for IR transmission functionality was to give developers and hackers something 'neat' to play with.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

I suspect that the community came up with something a little more sophisticated than the original design team had thought of. The impression I got from the various Nokiommunications was that it might be used in projects like Push for controlling custom devices. In this scenario you would be expected to know your own transmission codes. :)

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

yeah ur right as far as not sensible goes, i thought it was downright crazy TBH but thats why it made me smile so much!

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

I'm all for "geekports" and the like, but I seriously doubt that the Push project is the reason Nokia added CIR hardware to a consumer device.

Re: (Request) Learning IR remote control
 

I don't get it, why even nowadays TV/DVB/Hifi-home entertainment device manufacturers do not put Bluetooth into their devices but still use only IR.

Maybe the reason is that Bluetooth SIG haven't created a stardard for remote control of entertainment devices. Would love to have a standard and BT chips in about everything!