[Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Hi,

here is the list of apps under testing this week:

From week 13:

http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...ianobar/1.2-7/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in....5.20100243-2/ - Promoted
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in....1.20100223-2/ - Promoted
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...1.2.1-1maemo5/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...trainer/1.0.9/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...us-applet/0.5/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...uremote/1.0.1/ - Promoted
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...0.1.0-0maemo2/ - Promoted
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...ockthis/0.4-1/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...chedule/0.2-1/


New:

http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...black/1.0.0.6/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...-blue/1.0.0.6/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...-gold/1.0.0.6/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...eader/0.0.2-2/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...t-tor/0.0.4-2/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in....9p1-4-maemo7/ - Upgraded
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...-widget/0.1-6/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...-blue/1.0.0.6/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...cklet/0.0.1-4/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...maemo/1.0.0.7/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...support/1.0.4/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...ntral/1.1.8-0/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...maemo/1.0.0.8/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...-plugin/0.2.2/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...wallpaper/1.4/ - Promoted

With clear faults/bugs (can be voted down):

http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...2-1fremantle1/ - Demoted

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

In the interests of reducing ambiguity, what's the policy for the CLI icon requirement for packages that were published before it came into effect?

The current openntpd package would have been promoted if it had been tested a month ago when it came out, and adding another 10 days quarantine (plus waiting for whenever the testing squad will get around to testing the next version) for just an icon change seems way overkill to me.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

AFAIK it’s not a blocker, only a warning.

EDIT: The QA page is contradictory. In one paragraph it claims it’s a warning (and even that for CLI apps it’s optional), but later it claims it’s a blocker.

In case the QA page is outdated, the wording of the CLI wiki is still wrong. If it IS a hard requirement (which I disagree with), it’s not a SHOULD but a MUST.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing...e_applications says "there are blockers". I'm fine with that, just questioning whether it should apply to pre-existing packages. Also, what about already-promoted packages with no newer version? Are they ok or should they be removed from extras?

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

We don't have a clear policy for that, but packages in the same situation were thumbed down, so it's a bit unfair IMO.
The problem with the CLI apps is that apart from the testing squad almost anyone else test them.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Ideally, I wouldn’t mind at all if we simply had a XSBC-CLI: yes flag which would do all that* stuff automatically. And if it was a flag, it could be even modified through an interface, not affecting quarantine. Let’s not make lives difficult.


*CLI icon + automatically append "this is a command line application" to the end of the description

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

That was discussed, packages already in Extras are fine until a new release. The new version must follow the rules then.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Yeah, that was a mistake, fixed now.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Ah, so there's precedent. Oh well, so be it...

(s/any/no/ I presume) True... I voted down the last two openntpd versions for unrelated reasons, but I was hoping this one would make it to extras so I could finally tell all the users who are getting bitten by DST changing etc bugs to disable the stupid "update automatically from operator" setting and install this instead :-(

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

That would be great!

Speaking of the description, is the current openntpd one OK? IMO it's fine[1], but if not someone please post a comment stating what it should be to avoid yet another round-trip.

[1] "daemon" is prominent in the first line of the description. For anyone saying some users may not know what a daemon is I counter that most of the same users won't even know that the command line is. Note also that this is not a command line application and a description stating that would be misleading.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

FYI, there's a new package with a "CLI" icon in extras-testing now, so it'd be great if the squad tested that this week instead of thumbing down the old one :-)

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

CLI icons are not necessary for daemons which are autostarted (e.g. OpenSSH server). However they are necessary for applications (or servers) which can only be started by launching X Terminal.

So, if openntpd autostarts, is a daemon, and requires no user intervention to get its benefit then (AIUI):

1. It does not need a CLI icon (or CLI icon badge)
2. The description needs to be clear that the user doesn't have to do anything as it runs in the background.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Furrfu, make up your mind people! I'm way past caring what the actual policy is, as long as we have one that's clear and unambiguous but apparently that's too hard (cf http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing...pplication_.3F).

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

And I've argued against it (and been ignored by whoever wrote that), not seen any consensus and it's just plain wrong by reductio ad absurdum. What is the difference between:

1. OpenSSH server (starts at boot, is secure by asking for a root password on installation, has no other GUI)
2. Additional multimedia decoders
3. openntpd

Or even things like Telepathy plugins, Flashlight or the Facebook uploading widget which have no obvious GUI (or icon after installation) and require you to go to some specific part of the platform to discover them. Descriptions are important for all of these, a CLI icon (when they're not accessed through the CLI) is just plain silly.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

If the Testing Squad agrees (and, as I say, there was no consensus beyond "CLI apps should have an icon"), I will modify the wiki.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

I'd agree with that. I see no reason for daemon applications to require a CLI icon, though IMO they should state that theyre daemons which don't require any user interaction once installed.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

IIRC this discussion was very brief and there was no consensus at that time, one of the arguments were that some daemons can be activated from the command line, or can receive commands, so in order to simplify and don't create more rules we reach this decision.
Feel free to reopen the discussion or write more clear rules that clearly separate daemon/enablers from pure CLI apps.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Hi,
here is the list of apps under testing this week (excluding themes):
From week 14:

http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...eader/0.0.2-2/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...t-tor/0.0.4-2/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...-widget/0.1-6/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...cklet/0.0.1-4/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...support/1.0.4/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...ntral/1.1.8-0/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...ntral/1.1.8-0/

New:
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...ecipe/0.5.1-3/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...s/2.6.6-1nix0/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...n/2.6.6-1nix0/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...sitrep/0.4-16/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...utter/1.0.0-2/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...-logger/0.3-1/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...dictl/0.0.1-2/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...pattern/1.0.0/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...sh-l10n/1.0.0/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...ziggy/0.1.8-2/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...eloper/1.6.12/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...btexter/0.7.8/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...pwsafe/1.6.3c/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...rreco/0.3.0-1/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...eller/1.0.1-3/

With clear faults/bugs (can be voted down):

http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...maemo/1.0.0.8/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...maemo/1.0.0.7/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...inparty/0.5-2/
http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...-5-fremantle5/

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Consider the discussion reopened ;-)

Clear rules:

• An application MUST use the standard CLI icon, or the standard CLI badge over an alternative icon, if the user must use X Terminal to start the main purpose of the application.
• Packages which auto-start in a secure manner, or enable alternative functionality in other applications, SHOULD NOT use the CLI icon, as interaction with them through the CLI is not required.
• Any daemon which auto-starts MUST NOT provide a trivial attack vector, and so SHOULD (for example) prompt for a password during installation.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Just in case the Thanks! doesn't clue people in, I'm very much agreed with these changes.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

What's defined as "trivial attack vector", and which kind of password is to be prompted during installation? Isn't that a hassle for the user to always enter a password during installation (and maybe upgrade) of a daemon? (I'm specifically thinking of headphoned here, because this change would probably affect my package and cause more work with no real benefit for me or the user in the case of headphoned)

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

The most obvious example of a "trivial attack vector" being if OpenSSH server didn't prompt for a new root password. The factory root password of Maemo is well known, and the daemon is started at runtime.

headphoned doesn't listen on any remote port and only communicates with Bluetooth (AIUI, although it doesn't pause when my BT headphones disconnect, so maybe I misread that).

Perhaps it'd be better defined as "trivial remote attack vector"?

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Sounds like a plan.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Well put, though "main purpose" may leave some gray areas.

I would s/in a secure manner// (not relevant to the icon rules, and having it there may give the impression that auto-starting insecurely is ok if there's a CLI icon).

Let's leave this out (or add it explicitly to the security part of the QA checklist), it has no relevance to the icon / description rules either.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Do we have May list? Probably it´s "bit" late but then June list maybe?

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

It's been a very long time since the last list: I can write them, but I don't think there are enough testers for making them useful. Personally I've continued the testing and voted as many apps as I can, but the queue is getting longer every day (this is the first time I see page 5).

However, if you say there are testers, I'll create a list.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

I do not know if there is more testers, but monthly "advertisement" about this is not bad IMHO :) There is more and more users but in this jungle of information here nobody knows where to begin or what is happening here and some direction sign are always useful ;)

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Here's a list of packages in testing queue http://maemo.org/packages/repository...in_repo_page=5 . What more lists are really needed?

You can start from any part of the list and test as many applications as you wish. If application has already 10 votes or more, more testing is not necessarily needed.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

You know what? You are definitively right. Tomorrow i'll create a new list, and I'll try to "hire" as many new testers as I can. Something like "Maemo.org Testing Squad WANTS YOU" or similar.

The new list will focus on apps that needs just a few votes in order to reach Extras, hope that will clean the queue a bit. I'll also insert a Vote Down section for removing not-ready apps.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

@mikkov
IMHO all talking (Just guess that not many users follow other areas of maemo.org) here evoke people to do testing and experiment their N900.

Now everything is probably crystal clear for people who have been here for ~4 months, but new potential users and users who have forgot this can get idea.

All in all I think that all the little projects what you have going on here need little advertisement once in awhile. It´s not always bad.

.edit
It doesn´t always get people going (looks/feels like waste of time) but you can be sure that if you are not on view at all then it´s quite probable that no-one knows or will know about you.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Maybe it's time we look at holding another testing marathon?
The list is now getting very long (though in fairness a lot of it is a big influx of new software hitting testing in the days following the 1.2 release) and the last marathon was pretty succesful in getting a few extra testers showing up to test/vote for a fair few applications that'd been kicking around for a white and/or were close to enough votes, one way or the other.

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

True, reminding people of testing list doesn't hurt and it brings temporarily a few extra testers. But is doesn't remove true problems like that there are only 1-2 really active testers and when package needs 10 votes, testing queue gets really long. ( I have said couple times that 5 votes would be enough)

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

I do not have enough knowledge to criticizes (do you have thread about it here in talk or in devel? Link it here) current voting system, but i know that activating people here doesn't hurt it. Also what I have observed in some OS communities is that they really need (this might sound lame) ongoing cheer up process (could not invent better description sorry :)). Constantly poke users, advertise what is happening and so on. Even if it might make old users bit annoyed :)

Re: [Testing Squad] - April 2010
 

Hi everyone,

I've just created a list of can-be-voted-down apps, please add your negative vote in order to clean the repository qa queue:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...258#post693258

If you want, you can write something in the thread, just to keep it alive; newcomers have to read it.