Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Ok help me out a bit, it's just a thought.
I've used 2g, to 3g to 3gs & now they are coming up with 4.0 in a few days.
Now!
with my current phone which is N900, & i Love it.
I ain't a programmer or developer at all but i was thinking that If we were to compare free aaps for iphone and free aaps for n900, what is that one thing that makes iphone programmers develop their apps much faster and so many & so well put together.
I can understand for the paid apps that they get paid so they put alot of effort into it but what about those thousands of free aaps.
From evey aspect from graphics, to the actual funtion of those aaps are so flawless and practical but here with my phone its kinda different.
I know it's a very young & new OS, but all im saying that do you guys think that apple developers or iphone progerammers can develop apps much faster than programmers for N900 or maemo.

I wanan be very clear that i didn't mean to be negative or didnt mean no offense to any of the programmers and developers here for maemo. I appreciate their work but i just wanted to share my thoughts.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

All apps use a standard framework for the iPhone, so the graphics are handled by the OS.
Apps are "faster" for many reasons:
1. It doesn't have anything running in the background.
2. Most apps are programmed on one language (does the iPhone support other then C++/C/ObjectC?)
3. It's running at half the resolution of the N900.
4. It doesn't use GTK + X server + a window manager to handle stuff.
And so on...
Jailbreak an iPhone and make it multitask, then ask again.

P.S, interesting use of tags...

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

well, I am C# developer of 5 years, and I had some big plans to make some n900 apps, but I really couldn't find 1 straight article that would go from start to finish on how to instal the virtual machine, to how to compile my first app, to how to run it on the emulator. After a couple days I just gave up.

I might pick it up again in a few months.

so my guess could be lack of such straightforward development support?it's a trade off, but here's how it works for apple:
you pay a fee
you get a membership and access to stuff
there is a tutorials section with sample apps and how to get started

here's how the maemo sdk stuff went
I scoured the forums

found a wiki with instructions that weren't detailed enough on how to install a virtual machine

I have no clue how to compile my first app, but it all seems to be in command line?

I gave up

maybe this stuff is only for linux gurus

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Or for the people that has the patience and the knowledge on how to search the internet...

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

From deciding I'd write some code to trigger the flash for my nikon/remote flash hack, to having a working executable on my device was about 2 hours all in.

I found the N900 very easy to develop for:

Download VMware image with SDK pre installed
Start it
follow wiki instructions on using scratchbox

The wiki page you want is here:
http://maemo.org/development/trainin...in_html/node5/

Apple is more popular as said above, it's easy to get started, with great documentation and a well mapped out easy route to market (even if it is free apps).

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

yeah I figured I was gonna get flamed for posting my experience, but I was using it to help answer the original poster's question as to why.





the accidental -
I'm not sure that document was written yet when I decided to try developing an app. this sparks a new interest in it for me. Thanks.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Yes you were correct on both counts, the lack of developer resources and the typical flaming that would follow. Congrats I guess :p

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Roger_27:

I'm a C# developer myself.

Read the instructions about MADDE with Qt Creator. (Wiki, forum search, you name it.)
It works like a charm, although you'll need to refresh your C++ knowledge.

If you really want to stick to C# and .NET, you can search for Mono on the forum. (Mono is an open source alternative for the .NET Framework.)
Some people have it working, and you can compile and make it for yourself, but there are so much Microsoft-haters in here, that it hasn't (yet) really got too much attention.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

My experience exactly (except that I was planning to start developing one year ago for my N810). Being new to Linux (I'm a C# coder too) I asked advice but didn't get good replies. Somehow I got a feeling that there are no beginner Maemo developers. You have to born as one. If you ask questions, then you are not the chosen one. :rolleyes:

Me too. Luckily I didn't start last year since I have been very busy with other stuff. Hopefully I have time to learn Qt in the end of summer. Or maybe I do something with Vala and GTK.
I think Maemo/Meego could use some developers, even n00b ones like me. One day I might learn something and maybe produce something worthy for the community that has given me applications that I use daily.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

I think the reason most apps find the iPhone first is because:

a) Most app developers today are coming from the Silicon Valley/US trained education system. In the US, Apple had unprecedented marketing freedoms and strong exposure. Its userbase is usually more affluent, less tech savvy (in comparison to their EurAsian counterparts), and more likely to have disposal income to spend on appsand content, and will sacrifice the freedoms for ease of use.

b) Since the app craze is kind of new, those developers choose something local to their market with a low barrier of entry. This allows them to save on localization, testing, and marketing. Most development houses try to target their local market's dominant OS first, and the large iPhone buzz has spread to other locales, but the economy of scale and audience reach will be more important as smartphone use in the US becomes ore ubiquitous across a wider dynamic of the demographic. We are only just seeing other markets and lower income consumers demand popular apps and services outside the US. This is right on time with Nokia's cross platform strategy.

The real question is why is the ease of development more important than the addressable audience of targetable devices? Why consider an iPhone or iPad app, which will likely share some code, but is trending toward custom UIs for each device and will require at least some extra dev time for the larger screen, when you could use Qt and address Mac OSX, Win7, Linux, Unix, WinCE, WinMo, Symbian, Maemo/MeeGo, or even Silverlight for Symbian, Win7, and Win?? Is there really any benefit to focusing on the iPhone period while ignoring other larger OSes?! Unless you have an app localized to the US, I see little in that regard.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Thanks professor, how about just "a) been around longer" and "b) has a larger community"? I can tell you one thing, ObjectiveC is a bloody mess. I am much faster doing c++ in QtCreator than using XCode and its wacky shortcut keys.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

I say developers!

Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! :p

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

I work (offshore) for one of the largest US based IT companies, my particular office is one of the smaller groups but still has over 1250 employees and we work on mobile apps. I can tell you there is no interest in Maemo or Meego, little left in Symbian though that is where most of my own experience is, but the momentum is behind Iphone and Android. From an individuals point of view, we can take the time and effort to get something working on our beloved n900. From a software company's point of view, Maemo or Meego doesnt even factor into the equation. Maemo is dead and not worth the bother or the hassle, there isnt even a proper process for app payment or distribution. Meego is still nothing but what might be. Money is made on the here and now.

As an individual, it's also much easier and faster to work on Android or Iphone. The setup is easy and straightforward (as long as you have a mac for the Iphone sdk ofcourse), i can get a range of books from Amazon or the library, and there's a great easy to use app store available to load my app onto if it's any good. The process is straightforward, the code examples and Apis are mature, the OS is stable, consistent, and improving. On the other hand Maemo is a lot of groping in the dark.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

See thats's what my actual point was, now we've seen comments from different programmers here and they'll talk about iphone's aap development as in very simple easy and ready-made format. but on the other hand ppl like u who are professionals and r involved in every day market trends & specially in the mobile aap market. And it's so disappointing to know that there is no interest in maemo/meego now this makes me tink that what kinda cheap trash is nokia smoking.
I mean i still do not understand the purpose behind them making a device which they r gonna abandon like that. They are the largest cell phone makes yet such a powerful device like N900 remains un-popular and left aside and instead of the company's support its left for the programmers or developers, who clearly are stating that the platform to develop aaps for n900 is not easy or lengthy or not as simple as iphone.
So either we make face, or look the other way apple really is a winner over any other cell phone company, i mean they captured the market in such a small time.
I might be wrong but after listening to you all I stil ljust cant get the nokia's mentality of making devices and abandoning them.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Roger, the linux development in general and mobile development in particular is so different from C# development.

I am a professional C# development myself (MCPD), and it took me a couple of months to get motivated enough and do enough digging in order to develop a working application for the N900.

You can do everything from the N900 itself (and for that you might want to learn python and gain another language), or, as you've been suggested here, install the ESBox virtual image with ubuntu ready to start development in an Eclipse like IDE and C/C++/Python with intellisense.

In addition to Mono (as Venemo suggested), You can also try Vala (as Mixu suggested, and as appear in this thread). It's a C# like programming language, and there's a nice hildon example to start with, and the good thing it compiles directly to C library thus have no overhead.

Developing for Maemo is light years away from the nice, informative and straight forward MSDN articles.
There are many many ways to start developing for the N900 (it has binding to so many languages) that usually newbies can't see the forest for the trees. I know that, I've been there, and I'm currently far away from considering myself a Maemo guru.

But the key is to try. As long as you try, you are on the right path. Get frustrated, do mistakes, but try, and you'll finally have a working product, as persistent developers usually do :)

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

That's because it's a very, very closed environment tightly controlled by Apple. There's also lots of wasted space as any libraries a program wants to use have to be packaged along with each.

Make no mistake: Developing in the Apple world is very easy, but there is -no- freedom.

Android is also easy, but that's because you're developing for Android and not Linux. MeeGo will bring some of that via Qt, read below.

You do realize you are calling the entire open source movement "cheap trash" right? Nokia has seen the writing on the wall, regardless, and that's why they merged Maemo with Moblin. One fewer "mobile OS" on the market, but with two big backers and the stamp of the Linux Foundation on it.

Abandoned like what?

I'm sure it was popular enough that Nokia didn't lose money on it, which as far as a corporation is concerned is all that matters.

They aren't abandoning it. They're moving to an "easy and simple" platform in the form of Qt. Of course, "easy and simple" leaves you flooded with tons of crap apps that everyone wants a buck for.

They've captured a tiny percentage of the overall world market, but a large chunk of the US smartphone market because they beat out... Windows Mobile and Blackberry, which were the two majors on the market at the time.

They will never catch me though as I despise such a horribly closed platform, and I'm not the only one.

It amuses me that people have to be encouraged to do this, and that they're -shocked- that Linux development isn't bottled up as cleanly as Windows development is.

It'll probably become easier with MeeGo as they're pushing Qt, which is similar in concept to Cocoa and Android's custom "Java" libraries, at least for those not interested in venturing too far into the world of open source. Qt Developer already makes it cake to get the basics going.

And as for mono, you can try and use it but it's something that will forever be behind Microsoft, never quite able to be current.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

They abandoned it because they lost the name ... it is all about perception, I don't know why this isn't apparent. It isn't the motive, it is the lens that makes people speculate and come to such conclusions. You see 2 people in this thread already think Maemo was given it's death knell ... which it has. Why would people/ companies want to develop for Maemo, or MeeGo one is dead and the other doesn't exist as said by kojacker, the incentive is just not there.

I love my N900, and I don't regret it ... this thing is a powerhouse. I will also tinker around with it and write some code when I get a chance, (was thinking of making or porting a Usenet type client). But as it is now, developmental resources are hard to come by or are not organized well enough. I've been on a windows based system when it comes to development, I'm getting used to the Unix environment ... instead of nurturing this new set of developers ... Nokia like an ADHD sufferer goes off into the MeeGo abyss. Now a rumored tablet, come on Nokia can barely do a proper Smartphone. They just went to the Arm Cortex A8, everything before N900 was a slow ARM11 or even slower ... they have become a me too type of company and not once seeing a project to completion and supporting it. The N900 is a phone/ tablet with features still missing ... I mean hardware handicaps ... like an accelerometer that isn't even utlized by having a proper portrait mode ... or a front facing camera that isn't accesible by the suite of software this phone came with ... let alone the sync issue with Gmail granted which is software.

In my opinion Nokia has a culture of lacking focus, they cannot focus on a few items when it counts. Something that has worked for them well in the feature phone market but they brought this habit into the smartphone market. This style does not work in this market ... no one pays $500+ to have their phone obsolete in 3 months by a model that replaces the last. Obsolete sometimes doesn't even mean by hardware, Nokia even makes products obsolete by software ... where the hell is that Ovi maps with turn by turn? The Ovi store needs to be an app, going to a website is not the ideal way of navigating for apps, and the selection online should have more files.

I don't even get this site ... is it just the community, does Nokia listen and read this here forums? For the most part it seems we just vent and this isn't heard.

Maemo is a great platform, I hope this MeeGo endeavor brings with it more people more interest ... but Maemo had a good entrance and has a solid user base ... Nokia is guaranteeing it fails by pulling these crappy stunts. Are they allergic to money? Truly as it is now, the community is the only ones marketing and actively selling this phone and improving the Maemo experience ... Nokia is barely engaged in this with us ... there fleeting attention is already elsewhere looking at MeeGo amd drooling over another product they are going to abandon next.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

This is quickly turning into another FUD thread.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

It isn't fud when you say what is happening. I know some here feel sensitive when Nokia is mentioned, I am being as objective as I can be. I have no personal stake in this either way, I have my N900, I love it and that is all there is to it.

But I see the reality of things as well. Nokia's track record of follow through, which has been abysmal. I think it takes a lot of foresight to call them out on it, before they drop the ball. It isn't an exaggeration or a far stretch to say that the N900 is being handled badly as a product ... it is in limbo. Yeah go ahead and disregard a lively debate by insinuating it as FUD, the OP is asking a legitamate question ... serious questions for which I gave my opinion. I am sure there are more who feel the same. Wondering how can Nokia have so mismanaged a phone such as the N900. The marketing sucks, the app market is non-existant (Ovi sucks) and the App manager needs better improvements like search and ratings. Maemo was shelved 3 months into the release, their attention is elsewhere like a Symbian^3 phone rumored to have superior specs (not that there is anything wrong with that ... but wasn't Maemo supposed to be on the bleeding edge and Symbian for cheaper smartphones?), there is also MeeGo and now a rumor of a Tablet? Come one Nokia get your act together and make a coherent plan you can stick to.

So this isn't FUD it is the reality that is being ignored, can we agree that the N900 has had a worse treatment than the N97 ... the N97 has worse specs, but it runs the darling Symbian?

Below is my FUD, above was the truth ...

To fully be confident and back a product you would go balls in ... not holding hands and treading carefully with Intel. This is a symbiotic relationship not geared for a long run. MeeGo will split when either Intel or Nokia have had there interest met, then what?

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Ok

Wait, -why- do people claim to have had foresight on this yet buy in anyway?

You were basically making claims that have been made in numerous threads before, that the N900 -has been- or -will be- abandoned and that Nokia -is not supporting the device- when no evidence of such a course of action is present. PR1.2 is coming, with likely more to follow. Any other claim to know what they will do is pure FUD.

But I'm tired of re-arguing this and will inevitably be attacked as a fanboy for not wanting people to make claims for which they have no proof. You already posted a thread about "Hating MeeGo" and inferring all sorts of nonsense because it has a new name, I don't see what you're on about.

I personally, prefer a platform that's a touch difficult to develop for but developed with actual community involvement and actually open, than the jail that is the iPhone/iPad/iPod and the top down approach that is Android.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Maemo is actually older than iPhone OS so I think that's not the reason. Could it be that since Apple has been regarded as more usability centered than other manufacturers, it has attracted people that value usability? (Don't know if they develop any faster, I'm thinking graphics and actual function of the apps)
Linux platforms on the other hand has attracted hardcore tinkerers who want to have full control on everything. So both platforms have different kind of developer base which leads to different kind of applications. At least I have read from many threads in here that many people don't rank usability and user experience that high. It's more important have all the bells and whistles.
Of course this is not totally black and white but in general, I think this is the reason. What do you think?

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Actually, it's not the goal of Mono to chase Microsoft.
Sure it lags behind in features, but they clearly said that they don't want to port any Windows-specific things (such as WPF), but rather the underlying platform.
It's not the goal to have all .NET applications for Windows run on Linux, but rather the ability to use this platform to develop for also Linux.

With Mono, you can use Gtk#, which is almost what Gtk+ is (and that is already present on the N900), so the charm of Mono is that I can use the same development environment with my favourite language to write code for my favourite mobile computer.

With .NET, this is it: I compile it once (doesn't matter it I do it with Visual Studio, MonoDevelop, csc, mcs, whatever), and it can run on every supported platform with the same executable.
Noone knows what is so good about it until he uses it for some time. Because of JIT compilation, the code automatically gets optimized for the processor it runs on, and you don't have to recompile it for every OS or architecture.

The other good point is object orientedness. (Although some people don't like it.) And you no longer have to care about managing the memory, nor the rigidness of the C++ languge, nor versions or dependency problems. The different versions of the same libraries can coexist without any problems.
(It is a SHAME that they couldn't do this with Qt.)

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Qt is hopefully going to change a lot in Maemo/MeeGo app development.
It's a comprehensive well documented API with lots of examples, it's driven by Nokia, it has an enjoyable yet powerful IDE (Qt Creator), and with the MADDE cross compilation tool, you won't have to get the awkward Scratchbox environment running for app development any more.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Yeah, but they couldn't manage to run Qt 4.5 and Qt 4.6 alongside each other.
For this reason, they are changing the distribution name from "fremantle" to "fremantle-1.2" in the next fw release.
This is, IMO, Ridiculous.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

My guess is, that an average developer, who is familiar with the platform, spends a similar amount of time for doing the same thing no matter what the platform is. It's just the case that there are more developers for iPxyz platform, making you to think that the development itself is faster. Not being able to sell stuff will keep commercial developers away.

Now, I haven't tried the Apple stuff, but I would guess that their environment has a less steep learning curve. The FOSS community is too happy to give the RTFM to n00b questions, only the documentation for open source stuff is often quite obfuscated. Also lot of people seem to forget that googling is non-trivial when you don't know the name of the thing you're looking for.

Personally I don't know why someone would like to develop an iPhone app anymore.

I mean, after several years and 140k apps, what's left to be done? There's an app for that already.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

My opinion :
1) Apple aimed at this result. And a long time ago. The underlying OS for all devices is the same (almost). So the development platform is kept tight and clean, only building up with time. So is Microsoft and Google. And them only, the rest is decorative (I know Palm, RIM,...). Look at bottom line.
2) Apple is in the business of selling software. People buy into MAC because it's EASY probably a bit more than beautiful. Nokia (Intel, others...) are about to be... This is true all the way to devs.
3) Choice. People enjoy it by nature but to get work done...what you really need are leaders(to make choices) and followers(to really make it happen). I'm sure all Apple/MS/Google ruling bodies know "Divide et impera". And they even know better to keep their enemy closer (how good does Google make the i-thingies...?). So Linux world is left with conceptual fights and unfisnished wikis...while AMG enjoy making business.

and finally...
4) You can't compare Apple and Linux. They don't aim at the same stuff. Apple is business, Linux is the universe. People buy a mac or i-thingy, especially "the new or last one". People CHOOSE Linux. To be or to have....
So by nature developers that want/need to HAVE money will choose Apple and get what they want (and quick, and easy, and more...) whereas dev that CHOOSE Linux will only get what they are looking for (could be anything though, including there is no spoon! ).

Me? I wanted something different, and I GOT IT :D.
also...i felt like writing this...

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

This is so familiar. ;)
I feel the same way.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

I would also like to add that IMO most free apps at the app store are either worthless...fart apps... or lite versions of the full game which in IMO is just a demo to persuade you into paying for the real deal.
at least these are what I have personally seen...nothing good that's also free.

while on Maemo/the N900 they're developing stuff for free, which I believe is noble; they're already paying the time and the hard work into producing something useful for the community, then asking for them to hurry it up is plain ...(a******holic)
oh and I never saw a useless app for the N900. :)

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

no i didnt call any programmer here on this forum or reffered any one to be "Cheap Trash".
I meant what the heck is Nokia up to..

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

you see this is where :rolleyes: i think that perhaps i should act like u too & dig my head in the sand as well & just look the other way and say " Well those are fart aaps". They certainly arent fart aaps
cus majority of ppl woud not settle for just fart aaps.

Click on this if you care.
http://dailymobile.se/2010/04/02/iph...manufacturers/

Now compare these stats and then compare the price tags. And do the math, where is the more bang for ur buck??
And please fellas! the ideaof this threadis not to be personal but just to talk about progress of teh community and mainly talk about noakia's commitment towards n900 via your un-biast opinions ((Un-Biast)).

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Well if you ask me, all the bang for my buck is with the N900 because Nokia doesn't tell me what I can and cannot do. Whether it's a good platform or not for proprietary software developers is completely not a concern for me (since they would rather I use the DRM'd platform that takes all control away from me.)

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

really??
you have paid $600+ for a device that doesnt even come with a decent map software.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

If your still interested I am willing to help get you up and running. This is something I have recently done so could show you how, even setting up the dev environment to compile your first app. command or win based. Just pm me if you want.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Since the C# developers are a majority in this thread:

Vala Quick Intro for C# Programmers

And some more info from the Changelog since the above is not updated with the latest news:
http://live.gnome.org/Vala/Release

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

hmmmm before nokia and google announced free navigation software, can anyone name a device that came with decent map software as standard???? You cant suddenly impose limitations upon a product because it doesnt have mapping software. I could just as well say I expect the n900 to have blender 3d app or openoffice built in as standard just because its free. The n900 is a great phone with app development in its infancy.

if you want the uber phone/app combo I suggest you put your wish list into the mythical phone company in the sky. Im sure they would be happy to honour your request LOL

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Development with Qt / QtCreator can be very fast, so that's not the issue.

Generally the learning curve for Maemo development is high, since you need to know linux, debian packaging, maemo API's, toolkit API's (gtk/qt), tracker, etc... The downside of all these open source tools and libraries is that coding style will vary, documentation is scattered and not uniform, and there's not a single development environment that can handle even most of the process (QtCreator / MADDE is going in that direction but they should have been there already!).

Ovi store is also a mess, there's no clear information on when/how/who can publish N900 or when Qt apps will be supported. And I've seen a lot of independent developers complaining about the policies and walking away after spending weeks or months learning the platform.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

Interjection:

Whoever tagged this post "you don't know wtf you're talking about" needs to take their own advice, because they clearly have no idea what THEY are talking about. Idiot.

Resume Conversation

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

I didn't buy a GPS unit, I bought a mostly open source internet tablet that (this time around) included cellular capabilities and did voice too.

The only other option was a pile of keyboardless Android devices, Android devices with lackluster hardware, CDMA networks, and locked down devices. Oh and I don't like Android's Java sandbox. So much reinventing the wheel, and so little compatibility with existing technologies.

Frankly I (and not just me) see such map software as secondary. And if I need maps on the go, between Google Maps and Ovi Maps I'm good (and I already have a TomTom One for navigation.)

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

You can create an app for N900 so quickly it will make your head spin. I followed the directions for installing MADDE, modified a hello world C++ QT app, did a make, and the app was runnable on my laptop. I did a make clean and did the make through madde and copied the file to my N900 and I had a running app on the phone. It automatically had the N900 look-and-feel, and just wanted some packaging to make it useful for others to install.

The only thing that took any time was looking up the C++ syntax I couldn't remember. And I want to spend some time making it look better and figuring out packaging before I think about sharing it with the world. But the point is that it is insanely easy--and even easier if you use Python over C++. Your first app might take a day or to to muddle through, but your second or third can be churned out very fast. And
the QT app can run almost unchanged on your PC or on symbian or on winmo.

I suggest you install Madde and QT and build the hello world app. Run it on your phone. At that point you'll see how simple it is. Then modify it to do something else like add two numbers or show the current time in big red letters. In a few hours you will have an app of your own. You can have an app posted to extras-dev for the rest of us to enjoy in less time than it takes to fill out the paperwork required to let other people see your app in the iTunes app store.

Re: Programmers/Developers which ones are faster??? Your thoughts
 

For cryin out loud its a basic feature in a smart phone these days,
Hellooooo! this is 2010..it's a shame a device so high end lacks a basic mapping software.
And for when you say, you & jut you that;s not the thread is about it's about majority of the ppl, how bought into nokia's marketing. And in not a single comemrcial its mentioned that it's not a phone but some internet tablet for open source OS. for e.g this was the main commercial in europe, asia & for us here in NA on web sites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYnx0PUX7Do#

The point is this device shoudn't have been trageted for the main stream users if it wasnt meant to be but just for peogrammers/devels who wanna stay restricted and limited when it comes to practicality, applications & actual daily usage of a current day smart phone or internet tablet. With a big price tag & so called Nokia's Flag Ship device.