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Flaemo - Flash WebOS online
Hi guys.
As a Flash developer and member of maemo.org as well as owner of N900 I would like to introduce my new project developed and designed for mobile devices called FLAEMO What is Flaemo? Flash based and web based touch device friendly Operating System. Purpose of this project is to give you virtual desktop with all web based applications you might need available from any device you like. Considering HTML5 support in the future IF html5 will give you the same level of experience and cross platform consistency. At the moment is far away from 23kb of engine in Flash version. Considering the fact that hour "unlimited" mobile access to web has sometimes a 500MB/month number on it ad quality of network is very often crap make a lot of sense to keep it as light as possible. I'll be very thankful for any feedback and suggestion from you. At present it's far away from what I wont to achieve there, but hope that short introduction there is good enough to explain my goals. If not, feel free to ask. I have to say, I love Maemo and N900 and I couldn't help as c++ developer to much. This is my contribution to the community Features Canvas - scrollable canvas in any direction. Desktops – implementation of multi-desktop solution. 9 default desktops laying on the canvas. Possibility to specify your own grid and number of desktops. Screen modes – the choice of vertical or horizontal layout adjusts the graphics accordingly in a most visually efficient way. That unfortunately will not be supported naively in n900 due to lack of support for Flash 9 in full screen mode. There is an option to force portrait mode but n900 need special treatment in this case. Edit mode – you can arrange your desktop items in vertical or horizontal mode separately. Enhanced level of customization will let you change a lot of things. Entire GUI system is made up of layers, you will be able to use solid gradient colors or even textures. To addition to that you will get static layer called decorations for not movable elements (kind of master screen) Profile Manager – former (Device Manger is no longer there). Instead you will be able to customize your stuff on mobile, desktop and TV profile separately by your own depend of what device you are going to use. Navigation system - it's something you never saw before. In fact it's simple and let you use only one finger to all your tasks you might need. Idea behind was to put your head up again and leave your second hand free. Touch screen devices these days seems to be more natural and human friendly but a lot of GUI ideas came directly from windows-like systems which are no longer adequate. Our fingers are not a mouse controller. By the architecture design menu system itself is an external module that can be replaced in the future by any other you prefer better. Accessibility - you will be able to share your profile with other users and decide witch element on your desktop will be visible for guests, your friends and yourself. Flaemo is going to get internal storage (aka DropBox) you will be able to store your stuff and access it from many different devices at any time. Interactivity - you will be able to connect directly to your friend desktop and share a lot of things with them. Direct chat or even sending desktop widgets in real-time. Couple of screen shots: http://www.flaemo.com/scr1.jpg http://www.flaemo.com/scr2.jpg Closed Beta functioning release will be available in Feb 2011. Public Closed Beta http://www.flaemo.com Testing profile - always up-to-date under development for testing and debugging purposes. http://www.flaemo.com/?/dev Enjoy! |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
cool! can we run flash files with this??
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Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
devu: nice work!
This looks to be part of the solution... If you are able to create a 2008 version, I am interested in testing. |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
this is great work. cant wait to see it develop more.
what kind of feedback do you want |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
What features you expect to see, performance issues bugs.. pretty much everything to make it useful for you. And as I mentioned before, Is not my intention to replace maemo but extend it and make it available on as many devices as possible. From SkyFire s60 up to TV set.
For example If you have YouTube or myTube app on your n900 that's good for you. I recommend use it instead if perform better and save more power. But if you need to use your "virtual maemo online" by any other occasion share with others, use as personal website on your friend's PC or any flash enabled device, that will be perfect for you. At the moment it's early beta even Beta is to big world at present but I am working on possibility to make it customizable for everyone and for free. Another one thing is to make it open source, framework for other flash developers and they can bring some apps not available on n900. This way you can extend functionality of your device. But I would like to have an control on quality of this stuff to make sure that is in mobile-friendly convention. |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Hello again devu, thanks for letting us know about the new name. Perhaps a moderator can merge the older thread with this one.
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Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
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Hi Devu, I would like to see an awesome email client as simple as a Blackberry yet POWERFUL. Thanks so much. |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Didn't you already start a topic about this earlier???
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=601372 Why making another one instead of editing? Edit: Meh... it's getting late (3:33 already over here) Sorry, didnt read your first post on the older topic... why did u get that copyright stuff thing from adobe? What happened exactly? |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
flaemo - a flaming homo ;)
sounds great, good luck to you! |
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Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
This is awsome work. Keep it up. This is good for other people who don't have n900.. good job!
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Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Hi guys. Feedback request :)
Check the test version please. I have implemented small panel to help you send all details I need to improve Device Manager class. Only thing you need to do is enter PC/MAC or mobile device name. The rest application will do for you. That's very helpful data for me to adjust setting and prepare proper architecture. Also I'm working on Account Request Shortcut if you up to. Why now? I am receiving many helpful info from you and thanks for all that. But this is no more no less but Close Beta :) I've decided to make this service invite only for now. That small app will be ready at the end of day. Server architecture is ready to create multiple account and let you have own config, but for now app itself doesn't do anything actually, no worries I am working on it! Pop-ups are implemented as well as most part of the final architecture. Initial file required to run whole thing has 31kb now (Show me html page like that ;)) , which is quite important for mobile devices especially when you using 3GP network. Here is an example of working Theme System. This version already recognize /themetest/ as useraccount and loading external config file And at least... Deep Linking support! This is not often for flash-based projects but very useful I guess. When all this thing will be ready then I'll start working on some user interaction with system and next some useful apps inside. I am open to change my mind about priorities. ;) And by the way, I've being stupid wit this 2008. I am new to Maemo community I didn't realized you talking about OS2008! But that's why I need this feedback to make it available on as many devices as possible. Can't wait for feedback's.Thanks for your support! |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Thanks for testing. I've got tones of specifications even some of them showing that you running Windows 7 on N900. Did I missed something? :rolleyes:
I have enough data to cover up most of configurations, so sad that there is no many different devices than N900. But I've got data from N95 and N97 under Skyfire which is good. So... as small reward under test link there is small YouTube Powered widget to play "Video of the Day" on your Flaemo desktop. And I like today's Faithless New Single by the way. I will improve this widget yet but because today is my Birthday I am taking day offff :D. Architecture of Flaemo is ready and loading all stuff from external resources. That's how Flayer works already. From this point I will try to add more useful stuff there for you, but I think the first app will be small vote app to ask you about what features you wish to see first. Thanks a lot for all the feedbacks once again! |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
The video was great, whole concept is impressive.
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Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Not to be a nit-picker, but good spelling always looks good.
On the greeting, it says "Meamo-like." Not quite sure if that has to do with copyright laws or just a typo. Cheers. |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
can anyone send me a invite 4 flaemo?!
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Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
It's an interesting idea. Some observations and questions, devu.
You mention that this is for the N900, and someone asked about older devices. But if I understand correctly, what you're doing is cross platform. I'm accessing the Flaemo site on my N810 and I can access it on my desktop. I'm guessing that everything you do will work for older Internet Tablets as long as: 1. Everything you do runs in Flash 9. We've been told we're not getting Flash 10. :( 2. Demands on the processor aren't too great. Flaemo runs smoothly on my N810, but most Flash games do not, even on low quality mode. We would probably want to be able to turn off desktop effects, for example. 3. You're not doing something specific to N900 hardware. For example, pre-N900 devices don't have cellular capability. Questions: Q1. Will your stuff run offline, or will it require an Internet connection? Q2. Similar -- will it run off a web site or be downloaded to run locally? Q3. How will you attract developers? I'm guessing that Flash developers are used to a certain business model: using their Flash app to attract people to a site with ads. But it sounds like you're doing something quite different -- using Flash as a development platform for various mobile devices. Will Flash developers catch the vision? |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Hi buurmas and thanks for interesting questions.
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Otherwise internet connection is required. More complikated way is to create SWF-2-EXE tool. And I have experience with Zinc. Hovever never on Linux platform. Maybe some developers here could help. I've seen KMPlayer able to play swf file and looks like some good option. I'll have a look. The good thing about flash in this case is, once you accessed some application and this app doesn't need internet connection itself, for example small game but without saving top scores on the server. You can play unplugged. Quote:
One example: When I was looking for solution how to slide screen as smooth as possible one of the idea was to use some tile engine api. There is tones of platform games in Flash using that. Works great on desktop but for n900 it was rubbish solution, because of memory consumption. So each task has specific needs. Anyway, if I'll be ready for sure will spread the news around Flash developers community. |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
this is what maemo.org should look like :p
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The cool thing about running from a web site is that you get the same set of apps for multiple platforms (Maemo, Android, netbook, etc.). The not-so-cool thing is when you don't have an Internet connection & it hits you that you can't get at any of your apps. The home run 'best of both worlds' option might be like Google Gears where you sync up both your apps (i.e., make sure the offline version was the most recent code -- if necessary) and your app data. But online only wouldn't be bad If they weren't mission-critical apps. After all, to state the obvious, web sites have the same problem. Anyway, just some food for thought & best wishes for you. |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Hi guys.
...I had to eat my own words here.... I have a lot of good feedback's as well and I want to thank all this people can find useful what I'm doing, helping with debugging ans testing. I'm glad it's majority. Don't worry, I will not drop support for Flash 9 as far as I can do something useful with this. Shame, flash 10.1 will bring more features like cam, mic, tap support, accelerometer GPS even multi-touch. Which can be very good to create some good apps with that. Still hope 10.1 comes on N900 anyway. I will create flaemo forum soon as internal app and let you know about this fact. Also I am rewriting whole code and porting to the new language to abandon AS3/Adobe/Flash itself to improve performance and better memory management. Another one thing is Flaemo is no longer copy in any case of what Maemo is. Somebody pointed this out in his mad email to me as intellectual property issue but when somebody has right I cannot denied. There will be completely different navigation system and OS structure, more finger friendly and intuitive as well as non-specific-device related anymore. I have another one good news. I've got some handy hands to help me with this and first game will come on Flaemo as soon as whole system will be ready to go. I really would like to change the title of this thread to Flaemo WebOS but I have no power to do so. |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
So.. thanks to attila77 as you probably know this guy founded solution how to run Flash content and avoid web browser. That for sure will increase performance for flash content and I hope Flaemo will appear on the list :)
I need to know the FlashLauncher behaviour and restriction to be able to port Flaemo to this solution. But this guy bring back my hope to this community :) In mean time I would like to ask you guys what you thinking about solution I am working on. Here is early alpha stage of new navigation system for Flaemo: www.flaemo.com/prototype For reason I will leave you without explanation how it works and I will be glad to hear your thoughts about this. Cheers. |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
wow i just found this thread. as a noob flash dev i have to say i enjoy the look and feel of the previous tests.
i am intreagued with the latest semi circular keybard you have posted. keep up the awesome work |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Hi folks :)
Long time since I haven't updated this thread. ( And in fact Flaemo as well :( ) Apart of all rumors related with Flash and N900 I've back to this project. Its difficult for me, because I have to share my time with freelancing to be able to pay my bills. But I have a bit more spare time atm, so.. back to pleasures :) So... Because we know that Flash 10.1 on N900 is kind of "fairy tale" subject I had to face one issue and find solution to solve it. As I promised I will not drop flash 9 support as far as I can. Especially because of N8*0 and now (I hate to said that) N900 is going to be another one reason. However I can't stop myself on flash 9 and whole idea was design to follow new trends and capabilities. And now capabilities Flaemo has some build-in device manager to recognize what flash can or cannot achieve. But I'm facing backward compatibility issue. How does it works in practice? You can prepare any content you want using AS3 and it will be compatible from 9 - 10.1 since you will not use any of functionality related to specific version. And Device Manager is actually the first that causing problems. If you want to check some stuff that 9/10 doesn't support Flash Player will stuck forever. For this reason I had to AGAIN change the structure of entire system. Index file needs to recognize all of criteria before all of classes and methods will hit Virtual machine and then load flaemo as external swf file related to flash player version. That's the only way to have wide range of possibilities. More room for further optimizations but more work/time required... Flash Performance Some of you where asking me many times about technical aspects of flash player related to this platform. So, I've done some simple flash player capabilities tester for you. http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/ This will be available on first page of this thread as well. Using that you can retrieve more technical in formations as usually no matter witch flash player version you want to check. This class just handle incompatibility issues and pretty much represent what launcher for Flaemo suppose to do. Here is couple of screen shots during my testing and observations. This is Flash 10.0 On my old PC (AMD 3200+) http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/flash10.png Here is Flash 10.1 http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/flash10_1.png Now more interesting bit Flash 9 on N900 (Stock 600Mhz) http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/screenshot20.png Flash 9 on N900 (OC 900Mhz) http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/screenshot24.png Yes, Overclocking for flash makes huge difference. But as you can see its still lack behind 7 yeas old PC. The whole deal with flash 10.1 wasn't a video only. For reason I've put some graphic test for Flash 10+ to show you differences between old and new API. Another one thing that Flash 10.1 promised is ability to process triangle drawings by GPU. That could speed up all of vector drawings and I believe even on N900 go close to PC results. Of course Flash performance is depend of many different variables and GPU acceleration is not always a case. Sometimes perform even worst. But with optimization techniques in mind hope will be possible to do a lot more for Flash 10.1 capable devices. If you want to test drawing API performance on your own machine (and risk :) )here you go. 5000 iterations For Flash 9 http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/5000/index9.swf For flash 10+ http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/5000/index10.swf 50 000 iterations For Flash 9 http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/50000/index9.swf For flash 10+ http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/50000/index10.swf PS. If someone here has access to Android Froyo 2.2 device, please don't hesitate to post your results here :) |
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Maybe Web-based? |
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But the real reason why I am posting here is bigger :). I finished up my contract and had some spare time over the Xmas brake. In fact I left flaemo project for more than 5 months. New Year resolution is that I'm going to accomplish this mission and do something useful finally. In this same time calling all flash developers here able to help and join as well. During that time I was doing a lot of experiments for flaemo and was looking for final concept of this idea. And here we go. it's the work under construction obviously. As you can see there is nothing in common with maemo anymore. Navigation system is completely different. I'm posting this to early but I've got a reason. I'm no longer able to test it by myself due to broken USB port in my n900. Have no idea how long is gonna take a repair but I don't wont to stop developing it because of that. Any feedback so far from N900 (and not only) users most welcome. I'm changing description on first page of this thread to provide more info about what is going to be about. Whatever future will bring to this project, access request on the old version has been suspended and all you who sent me this request before, going to get exclusive account for life! Maemo.org users will got special treatment anyway :) |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
So.. I've got phone call from customer service that my N900 needs to be send to factory for repair and that will take additional 2 weeks! I'm keep going with the project and I am fully determinate to make it happen, however I'm blind without my device to be able to check whatever I'm doing against performance.
Any feedback here most welcome. Thanks! |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Where to subscribe for a account? I'd love to test this to it's full capabilities. Awesome work!
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Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
this looks really good m gonna save this thread to my desktop
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Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
@xomm Here is the final description of the project
"Flaemo : Web based OS for Flash-enabled devices" , hope is good enough. And if you don't mind to change the title of this thread I'll press thanks button as many times you like :) @blipnl requests for beta account has been suspended. I've got around 50 ppl on the list interesting in testing closed beta. If you really want I'll send you this too. (just PM me) But that is not going to happen before the end of this month. Reason why I posted about this was because I had to sent my N900 to repair. And this failure will probably delay beta release date :(. But just counting on your reports if you will notice that something really wrong is going on with current build. You can always reach private profile and every day I am adding new stuff and implementing new features. After Closed Beta release I'm planing to add little application to send invitations to their friends. It will remains closed until reach some good quality level. But for now is kind of useless even for beta testers so.. Stay tuned, keep checking! @poogash I wish some day you going to say "to my Flaemo desktop" :D |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
@devu i hope so too mate looks quality
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Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Today's result is a crazy test. If you'll hit test sub-page There is 9 YouTube widgets (12kb each) playing some video. Use Desktop profile only for now even if on N900.
This little test uncovering smoke and mirrors game behind the multitasking hype. AS you might know a lot of companies these days are showing off multitasking as the must have feature. For most of users is just to ability to run multiple applications and visually see them as a prove. From programing point of view, processor is just one. And sending instructions in serial mode. There is no way that you can make your OS multitasking. As well as you might know, Flash is for sure not multitasking technology... So how on earth I'm able to play 9 videos in this same time! As prove of concept just hold on desktop and chose dashboard mode to see all 9 desktops. I wonder how it would perform on N900... |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
the 9 desktops looks spot on on the n900, each desktop moves around with fluidity, i like the animation for the longpress
didnt work in portrait mode tho :D |
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Without access to device I can't do anything about it, and to be honest even if service will send me my n900 back, this feature is on low priority list. N900 is an exception here. I need to create special build for this device. Don't wont to keep all the exceptions in one core file because it will increase size of the file drastically. Base on latest stats half of android devices already supporting 10.1, so... majority has a priority. |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
thats fair enough, makes sense to go with majority
btw my portrait comment was tongue in cheek :) |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Little announce.
Due to back-end changes all the links are no longer valid except main domain name www.flaemo.com of course. I'm on the process to implement communication model between flash front-end and back-end. That will open the doors to manipulate the data as well as first application to modify your profiles and skins. The new convention is as follow www.flaemo.com/?/myprofilename/more/parameters/ so the new testing environment will be www.flaemo.com/?/dev My bloody N900 still didn't came back to me from service, but I'm trying hard to launch closed beta at the end of Jan. Hope you are not going to be angry birds if I'll get a little delay :) Stay Tuned! |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
Hello there.
Some people are keep asking me : Why you doing this in Flash rather than HTML5. Mobile content suppose to be as small and efficient as possible!!! Yes, I agree and that's why I am doing it in flash. And I'll write it here to avoid further questions. Lets take a google landing page under consideration. On devices with full web experience you actually reaching the full version of it. And you are not really going to access any particular content yet but just searching for it. If you using Firefox and have a firebug installed here is the result: http://www.flaemo.com/screenshots/s1.jpg Right, you had to transfer 132kb of data just to access search engine! Now, Flaemo Landing Page: http://www.flaemo.com/screenshots/s2.jpg Right! 100kb when in fact 13kb has been reused from browser cache even if you cleared this cache before to get there. In practice you transferred 87Kb via network. Basically the way how flaemo is being designed is about efficiency at first place. Bud landing page is nothing exiting really, right? So lets go further. http://www.flaemo.com/screenshots/s3.jpg And here is something more sophisticated happening. what really happened on landing page. Flaemo read entire graphic user style and just reusing its parts. Going further if you have repeatable stuff on your desktop is going to reuse it from cache. In this case those 9 Google TVs and sticky notes. Ending with final total 271kb where actually 120k has been retrieved from browser cache! In fact entire engine plus content with all RIA experience is about 150k!. Only 20k more than google landing page. There is even more to come. Partially internal flaemo cache system has been implemented for reusing graphic assets being already loaded. That mostly is for GUI elements. But can be done for widgets as well. It can also be done for requesters. Let's say 3 buttons sending request for same elements at once. In fact there is nothing to reuse from cache because none of the elements finished loading it. But system can recognize the calls being made and store only references to the requesters. once when desired element is ready just inform them about this fact. At the end, just for comparison: facebook.com landing page 113kb what about rest of the content? http://www.flaemo.com/screenshots/s5.jpg twetter.com landing page 305kb what about rest of the content http://www.flaemo.com/screenshots/s6.jpg maemo.org landing page 461kb what about rest of the content http://www.flaemo.com/screenshots/s4.jpg Hey! is not HTML5! Yes, is not. To be able to represent current flaemo state in HTML5 (not even mention is not fully possible and consistence across the web browsers) I need around 1MB. Do you still thinking HTML5 is the future of the web for mobile devices? I think for those who going to charge you for that it is. ;) So please, don't interrupt me at work by asking all this silly questions and let me back to work! BTW, Flaemo is being build with molehill in mind and if new fully GPU accelerated flash player arrive I'll start to port it. It is being confirmed by flash player engineers this API can be also useful for 2D content and take full advantage of GPU. And this is why I was trolling about lack of flash 10+ support on N900. it will be huge disadvantage to don't have new flash player on your device whether you like it or not. It will be actually bigger than lack of HTML5 support. |
Re: Flaemo - Flash based maemo-like app online
So.. I'm not gonna make it at the end of this month.
Due to my financial situation I had to start another contract started next Monday. My N900 didn't back from repair yet. (I've sent it 8th of Jan, voodafone customer service). I was trying hard, but to many difficulties lied on my way. Contract is about 2 moths long and hope I can find some power to continue after working hours to do something useful here. Shame, I'm not so far from accomplish registration mechanism as well as 2 application to customize buttons and desktop graphic styles. Unfortunately without my device I can only guess how good is going to perform. That's not the best method for debugging anyway. For this reason portrait mode support was completely left behind. I'll keep you informed about the progress. The good news is that all the customizable data are already being pulled from Data Base witch is open way to make it custom for you. |
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