N900 Current State.
 

Just a quick discussion aimed really at the speed of app releases the variety of apps available and upcoming.

I would of thought the app development and range of apps to be a lot bigger by this point for the N900 but on the other hand the device seems to be in a transition stage where PR1.2 and Meago could be just around the corner.

Is this having a negative affect on developers, uncertain if they want to put vast ammounts of time and work into apps that may need a lot more work when updates or meago become available?

If this is the case it would put my mind at rest with the 900 because a transition period is just that.. just a period of time until we have more certainty towards the future of the OS / Firmware updates.

Thoughts anyone?

Re: N900 Current State.
 

yeah i thing if i was a developer the stage were going through now would put me off sligtly. but in saying that in terms of what the n900 stands for this is only the begining and i think that patient users will be rewarded in the long term.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

Reminds me similar in ways of the Blu-Ray / HD-DVD phase of who will be the prime choice of the consumer...

Until a secure choice is made in the community on release and tested phases have blown by i don't see us seeing the apps that the 900 deserves some of the community based stuff is fantastic and its grea to see a strong backing from owners on here but i believe we are missing out until a primary choice is made and people are prepared to put time and effort into more apps.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

Given that I had stopped posting for like 2-3 months only to come back to the same situation(s) - PR 1.2 still not yet released, MeeGo not yet released, apps with no updates since the release of the N900... to be brutally honest, things look downright abysmal for the N900 in its current iteration.

That might all change with some key announcements. But so far, hasn't happened. I'll be back in 2-3 more months to see if things had changed. But I seriously doubt it.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

PR1.2 is just around the corner yes but MeeGo is everything else but around the corner.

The current state of available apps count and upcoming may be decreased by the fact that this model (N900) is a first start of on the market with a NIT capable of doing phone-calls and having cell-data connections. Several closed apps are not properly pushed as the main goal is something else. If the hardware and the module (driver) stack is working out we may receive a surprise as "now we got time to do more then just bugfixes and minor enhancements".
Compared to other devices the NITs and the N900 are a ...watch it.."community enhanced development".

Things need to change before Nokia will put more money into maemo, and the change is the 'fremantle' to a 'harmattan'. As stated by Nokia after the first few weeks of the N900 being out on the global market, the developers are moving on to Maemo6/Harmattan now known as MeeGo/Harmattan and only a few keep working with us on bugfixes and minor enhancements.

If I get this right the N900 is the reference platform for development for future MeeGo devices and the commercial developers are going to work on that and wait for it before they put their money in.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

Thinks like a payment service within the OVI store don't work (THE reason why a lot of developers are on the iPhone instead of being here - now they also getting the iPad to sell their apps - great!), then there is no user base for "maemo" at the moment (yes: freaks like us - willing to OC their devices), the whole transition process from "maemo" to "meego" - and still the big picture is not so, so clear (as it never has been with Nokia; wasn’t it Anssi Vanjoki claiming N-Gage to be so successful and developers can make money out of it, the same guy now claiming the death of DSLR and seeing the first HD phones in the up-coming 12 months – Mr. Vanjoki: did you already see the Sony Vivaz?)...
So yes: I can understand why a lot of people are not putting more of their (free) time into this...

Re: N900 Current State.
 

You are right and wrong at the same time.

Maemo as it stands will be replaced by Meego. BUT the next firmware upgrade will allow apps developed to run on Meego to run on the N900. There is even the possibility that Meego might be available for existing N900's, but that appears some way off yet.

Developers have been waiting for this cross-compatability so there has perhaps been a delay in progression and range of apps available.

The other thing to consider is the user profile of the N900 who are not your typical gamers, not your typical business users, etc., etc. That said, N900 has been an unexpected and widespread success for Nokia. Demands are now being made of the device that will no doubt stretch the original design brief and development roadmap to the point where Nokia will either have to review their policy to the N900 or abandon it.

I don't think that is likely. Besides, many members of this community consider the N900 to be emminently suitable as it is.

Like many, I have gone through a transition period with my new N900; it is unconventional after other devices but the more you use it, the more you see the logic in its design.

having used my wife's new N97 Mini yesterday, there's no way I'd go back to a (current) Symbian device - something I thought I'd never say.

More apps are on the way from both Nokia nd the community and there is a good choice of USEFUL apps already available - search this site for more info.

What do YOU want out of the N900?

Re: N900 Current State.
 

MeeGo will be officially available for the N900. @qgil confirmed this here

Re: N900 Current State.
 

I bought my n900 back in December last year and still not updated the firmware.

At them moment I am happy with my n900 because it is a portable Linux computer then phone (from my point-of-view).

As far as I understand maemo-based apps will run on the n900 version of MeeGo because gtk is still part of the platform. This means software before the 1.2 update can still be used in MeeGo.

I don't think there is any reason why people should hold-off writing software for maemo especially before the 1.2 update.

The major aspect of PR 1.2 is that it will include QT. This means when MeeGo is ready then moving an app from maemo to MeeGo should not be a major problem.

As far as I understand the n900 is still selling very well so it makes sense to write software that can run on both platforms.

My only issue now is that the phone app is still closed-source. The phone app currently implemented has disappointed many people and a few users have abandoned the n900.

If the phone app in MeeGo is going to be similar (and closed source) then people will still complain about it.

If Nokia are willing to open up the development of the phone functionality (including battery management) too then MeeGo and Nokia devices will stand a better chance of being taken serously.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

The n900 in its current state is not exactly usable, unless you are a developer or a Linux Guru. It has some great pros like a superb browser, flash support, opennes.

The downsides however are numerous. There arent many applications that are practically usable, and until MeeGo is out there probably wont be. Applications coming from the community are always welcome, but a device like the n900 needs high-end apps.

Another downside is the lack of decent maps and navigation. I travel a lot and i expected the device to have at least some decent map applications. The calendar is amongst the worst i've used.

Seeing as Maemo is being left behind,and there are no updates, 1.2 has been "around the corner" ever since February, the future
for Maemo isnt very bright.

However it's still one of the better devices out of the box.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

I would of hoped to see more larger companies backing the 900, but i think the new boy to the market is leaving them weary of getting involved with it at this point with no security on where this is heading at the present time.

I know this device is aimed at open source & community based apps but larger developers look to be getting excited for Meego and not Maemo :confused:

and if thats the case... and Meego is far off release then were likely to see minimal backing from larger devs.

The large screen, great speakers & GPS out the box are begging for Sat Nav something TomTom maybe could of capitlized on or many of the other countless navigation softwares.

They developed for the Windows Mobile .. it did work great but i hated my Windows Mobile device!

Dont get me wrong i love the 900 i wouldn't go back to windows mobile and windows next OS doesn't look appealing at all and still looks years behind Maemo OS.

I'm sure others feel a lot of oppertunities are just begging to be opened up with the device and to no fault of community but uncertainty over what this thing will eventually run is slowing progress here.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

I just wish Nokia would communicate a bit more and/or make more public statements about the developments of maemo and MeeGo.

Many of the developments of the n900 are/were based purely on rumours.
Usually qgil has had to make statements on Nokia's behalf.

I bought the n900 last year and never expected and mapping software at all. Unfortunately Nokia released a free version of OVI maps for other devices and completely ignored the n900 community.
No announcements were made either way -"yes you will eventually get it " or "no - only symbian devices will get it".

Nokia said absolutely nothing and upset many users.

It is the overwhelming silence that paints Nokia with an almost arrogant atititude.

We still do not know offically if we are getting the "free" version of OVI maps.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

What is Nokia's business case for being so quiet about the N900?

Re: N900 Current State.
 

Plenty of large companies are getting behind MeeGo:

http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=46

It's been said many times by qgil and others that with Qt 4.6 compatibility for Maemo 5 coming in the 1.2 update, developers can go ahead and write now (for Maemo 5) and run later (on Maemo and/or MeeGo).

I don't see a significant problem technically. If developers aren't releasing more software for Maemo, it's very likely because there simply isn't enough raw numbers of Maemo devices in user's hands yet to support the cost of releasing more commecial software. The N900 by itself hasn't sold millions and millions of units like the numerous Android phones or the iPhone - not yet. They had a long head start and it will take a while for the number of Maemo/MeeGo units to reach critical mass for software companies. But remember, things change very quickly in the mobile device world.

The N900 has sold really well, better than Nokia expected for sure. The success of the N900 and strong support it demonstrated for an open mobile linux OS may well be what convinced Nokia and Intel to finalize the MeeGo project.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

IMO the 'uncertainty' is not from Nokia, but is largely drummed up by all the speculation as can be found throughout this site.

The other week someone made a posting referring to an online article claiming that PR1.2 was imminent. I traced the sources halfway across the 'net and came right back to the same thread that was now claiming the 'News' - we are now creating our own mythology and the Trolls are eating themselves...

I don't think Nokia have that much doubt or uncertainty about N900. I think it's success has perhaps given them something new to consider, but against all the other new models and associated products they have to deal with this is very small beer.

In the meantime we have Nokia's support, the possibility of Meego and the excellence of Maemo as it stands.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

Yay, I get to use my favorite figure of speech:

"It is what it is".

Anyway, since Meego doesn't exactly "exist" in a usable sense yet, the ability to run Meego apps with PR1.2 doesn't seem to be of much consequence.

I'm happy with my N900 and I'll continue to be a user for a couple of months to come, since my search for a good Android 2.1 equipped QWERTY slider with a hires screen came up empty. I am almost convinced however, that the N900 will never see a vast array of high quality apps. It is what it is - meaning you get what you see today. Don't expect the coming months to change anything.

I fully understand how almost no one wants to program for the N900 now, since we are all but left in the dark about the future. Will N900 Qt-apps be easily transferable to Meego by a simple recompile? Will the Meego GUI allow for the same kind of usability logic as present N900 apps? If I make something for the N900 today, will it be easier to just redesign almost the whole thing, if I want it to run on Meego.

Many say portability will be easy, but developers are not convinced and my guess is you'll see virtually no wow-factor apps for the N900 in the future, even though the hardware potential is huge.

If you're convinced that the N900 is not a dead end for developers, then how do you explain the lack of apps on a platform that should be a wet dream-come-true for all geek(ish) programmers?

Re: N900 Current State.
 

One thing that seems to me ironic about the current state of the N900 is the way extras-devel is treated. It is supposedly a sin to run apps from extras-devel, YET large numbers of programs that are more or less essential live there, seemingly permanently. For example, Midnight Commander, which many people live by, has been there forever (though I haven't checked recently) It is often claimed that the developer of these programs considers them unready for even testing by common folk. I don't think that is true. For example, does the developer of Midnight Commander really have that opinion?

I have seen MANY comments by developers implying that they think that users are going to try out their programs the moment they are put in extras-devel -- and they are correct. They clearly are not of the opinion that users should stay away from their program. But it is a shame that so many programs languish in extras-devel. I have seen even developers complain about that fact. The developers who complain about it don't seem to be of the opinion that people shouldn't try out the programs.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

1. The fact that it doesn't yet have - at least installed by default - all the 'smartphone' features many users expect (individual ringtones, turn-by-turn nav, MMS, etc. etc.)

2. Because a N900 sale is likely a lost N97, N97 Mini or other Nokia phone sale. IOW, they don't want it to cannibalize Symbian sales.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

I think the n900 will always get community support regardless of what Nokia does.

But Nokia's hope of making money from the apps has severely diminished. Even with their symbian market things look doubtful.

I imagine any commerical software company looking at the n900 will be thinking "Yeah, nice device but how will I recoup my development costs in any meaningful way?"

Re: N900 Current State.
 

After waiting for almost half a year to get the N900, and after 2 1/2 months after using it (really using it, downloading apps from extras testing and devel and even refalshing the phone because battery drainage was caused due to one of the extras-apps) I must say I'm disappointed. I'm still trying to like it, in terms of phone and sms it does exactly what I need and also exchange capability is there, however something 'fundamental' is missing from this great piece of Hardware.

When I look at an iPhone I always think "Damn, is there a similar app for N900?". The same thing applies to when I hold one of my friends' Android phone in my hands and scroll through the apps, and I realize how far behind the N900 is. I'm still hoping for some sort of breakthrough.

I'm also baffled as to why Nokia would promote this Portable Computer / Phone hybrid, if it can't even deliver a similar or perhaps even better experience as an iPhone/Android-Phone in terms of usability and fun in using this device.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

I'm trying very hard to pretend my N900 is nicer than my friends Desire and failing miserably

she showed me a fab app yesterday that shows whats on at the local cinema and the best I could come up with was my weather widget..........

I then said mine is different as its meant to be an internet tablet, and she said yeah hers is some sort of internet slab thing too
and hers is gorgeous and bronze!

Re: N900 Current State.
 

Well...why need an app when you have such a powerful browser. Next time, type "movie Brighton" in the address bar and you'll get the same thing.

Re: N900 Current State.
 

Although the scope is very general, and the last part of the above quote a little dramatic, this is a good thread topic and I'll unlikely do it justice. Unfortunately, the audience I perceive it was inviting to respond doesn't seem to be representing much, and I can't blame them. But I'll weigh in my 2 cents anyway. [Arrogant, I know, it's just my way with a topic like this.]

Do you see an interesting percentage of the good developers complaining? The only thing I see them really b*itching about is the cluster f*ck of having the build machines upgraded to 1.2. And rightly so. Other than that it's business as usual.

This is a long race, Nokia and others that similarly embrace open source are the tortoise, and developers that gravitate towards such things don't let the rabbits bother them.